Driving style and maintenance=engine longevity.

300 "track" miles is closer to 4,000 standard miles in what you see happen to the oil. And that's on an engine that's not as finicky as the vq (Learned that from a guy in the boosted industry, just in honda's). Blowby, load, bearing wear everything increases when you drive wot.
Frankly every time I go racing I'm going to do it on fresh oil and change after the car fully cools down.

Yes its ****, maybe even over-kill but it helps keep the engine alive. I don't see anything wrong with it when I'm shooting for 700-800whp on a Daily*.

 

I remember when everyone used to say "your shop needs to know the VQ" if I go back to threads from 2003 most of these shops were total n00bs back then. I finally took my engine to an engine building shop that had never seen a VQ before he was a 3 man operation with about 50 engines there mine was the only V6 and pretty much the lowest HP goals in the shop they had been in buisness for over 25years. I had a 2nd head gasket failure and originally just wanted him to do the machine work and myself and a buddy that has built a few engines were going to assemble it. After I got home and thought about it i was tired of ****ing around i wanted to drive the car and not worry for a change. I told the shop to through the entire engine and Rebuild it from top to bottomcould out all of the stops and check and replace what ever he wanted. I don't want it just re-assembled I want everything checked right down to bolt stretch. When I picked it up he said it was a mess and who ever (VQ bubble shop) assembled it had no idea what they were doing right down to the balancing being out.... A lot. So bad he thought I had changed rods or pistons or both....



Sorry for the long winded post but a lot of this forums engine issues are the forums "go to shops" and that's why people out side this forum have good success story's because they go to shops that have been building engines before 2003....

For local guys in Alberta ARL Machine in RedDeer is the shop that built my engine. He was willing to spend a fair bit of time discussing my goals and theory's and his thoughts on things. I can't say enough good things about him he knows his stuff and so far my engine is running strong and I hesitate to say that do to all of the issues I have had and not wanting to curse myself.

 

We are in the same area Randy, anyone I may know?

OP, I'm not trying to crap in your Cheerios, just giving you the reality. Is F/I awesome... YES. Do these cars make incredible power that can hand out beat downs... YES. Is there a solid history of reliable F/I with built motors... MEH.

ITNKICN

How soon you forget:

https://my350z.com/forum/forced-indu...-friendly.html

Guess I could add you to my list.

 

built motor, reasonable fuel upgrades, 850 dw's, a 6266 single, a JWT full face clutch and hope to hit 500 high boost.. DD map around 400... I think that nearly doubling the HP i had previously is FAR more than ill need... and plan to buy a used 4 door the month i get the car done.. hopefully by tuning the boost WAY back i can add to this thread later on as a success.
I think the first step is taking my car elsewhere from the building shop for a once over by a trusted friend immediately upon delivery.
For as long as mine is taking, i assume the end result will be a rush job.. so Coz at CZPs guy Vitally will be stepping in as my wrencher..

i guess the point of my post is that the excitement of my build turned to sorrow already.. and i dont even HAVE the car back yet.. and this fact has me happy w far less power than i had expected or hoped for before while still running the same parts and set up as I had planned to attempt to make 600hp with.. and if that helps me stay safe.. even better.

 

 

SAFER to overbuild and underboost right? That is the approach I'm going to take.

 

The majority of the built motor carnage on this platform can be traced to the "VQ bubble shops" who had zero or minimal experience building high horsepower motors prior to the VQ, but did a good job of wooing customers on this forum with their fluff and hype.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I hope your motor (built by a real engine builder) lasts for you and proves our point.

 

The vets just want to make sure there doesn't become some false sense of security in the future by noobs reading a thread w a ton of boosted ppl saying " I have no.problems w my fi"... n then they ruin thirty lives boosting thirty dd w the only money they have..in this sense..its very good Alberto scares ppl... its a cautionary tale that has deep roots in truth.

Overbuikd and under boost?
Absolutely ..
But I spun a bearing NA.. so I don't feel my route is "safe"... its just less bad.
Constant monitoring of the oil p, constant oil changes..vastly increased oil capacity, constant check.of catch can fluids, and routine check ups at the tuners..lots of data logging and enough technical knowledge to perhaps understand issues as they are occurring I believe are necccesary to the longevity of ANY car..especially this one.

 

I do like the idea that was posted about sending oil off for analysis every oil change as long as I can understand what the purpose of that is and how to read the results. I change the oil about every 1500 miles and regularly have the car on the rack inspecting stuff. This has given me a good opportunity to correct some issues I couldn't see with the motor in the car as well.

 

i would classify that under not assembled correctly like i said number 1 reason for spun bearing is dirt 2 would be clearances i doubt all these shops got dirt in the bearings considering i was able to build mine in a parking lot and avoid that i continue to put my money on clearances.

 

My first built motor still hanging in there at 30k miles but I hate to post cause you never know when something is gonna give! Trans should / might fail first but that isn't cheap either.

EDIT:

Power/Torque: 470-520whp/520-580tq (DD vs DJ)
Boost level: 16 - 18psi
Platform (HR/DE): DE
EMS Platform: Haltech
Tuner: initially Sharif@Forged, but it's my tune now
Mileage on Built Motor: 30k mi (6k mi/yr)
Engine Builder/Supplier: Forged S1 shortblock build
Turbo Kit: JWT 700bb kit
Driving Habits: daily to/from work during the summer, 16-18 psi daily, once a year ZdayZ airstrip past 5 years (except this year)
Rod/Piston Combo: Eagle/Arias ED

 

Can you post your specifics listed in the first post?

 

^^^ One of the handful of people I actually know and can verify that drives his car HARD!!

This is somewhat of a false sense of security for two reasons. First, unless you drain the oil and ship it out, then wait 2-3 weeks for the results without driving or even starting the car again, you may already be too late to prevent an issue the analysis could identify.

Second, you get an analysis back and it has some elevated levels. You post it up on the forum and get 17 different thoughts on what it may mean. You contact the engine builder and he says "it should be fine" since he doesn't want to question his own work. Now you have two equally disturbing options:

1. Park the car, pull the motor and do a preventative teardown in hopes of finding an issue before it becomes a failure (still no gaurantee that you actually save any damaged or wearing parts other than maybe the turbos).

OR

2. Keep driving it and wondering every time you hit boost if this is the last pull. Even if it doesn't fail, your confidence is shaken and it sucks some of the fun from having the car.

I hear you on this, but think of my situation. Once you have a failure, the shop is extra vigilant about making sure things are right. On the last two builds I had 2 or 3 different sets of eyes check the assembly specs.

 

I don't qualify- it was my stock motor that blew. I'm on 10k (kms) on my block now and running strong but I barely drive it.

And I shouldnt have to exclude the members who held my hand through the whole thing- they should know who they are and them such as now they continue to press the ambitious with the realities vs being abusive about it.

So for what it's worth:

Intec Racing- kent WA.
Built short block: Intec
Stock heads
BC forged rods / cosworth pistons
Uprev tuned by intec / MNR
JWT 700bb kit
18psi / 14psi (high / low)

6400+ miles

 

When I say go to a shop that knows what they are doing I mean knows what they are doing.

I have no shame in saying a shop like dynosty knows what they are doing. You can tell what shop knows what they're doing by talking to the engine builder and listening to the shops previous builds. IMHO going to a shop that works with z's but has experience with 2j's or dsms or anything import that has an iron block is a good start. Especially if they do their machining in house.

Talk to hal about his old sc300, you'd be impressed.

Sound Performance is also very knowledgable and have proven themselves not just in our community but in the supra world.
The supra world is huge in power and built motors and has been around for quite a while.

I think the whole bubble idea being full of sh*t is totally on point. Some Z shops I WONT go near for even a tune, and others I'd trust with my whole build. Going back to the shop to continue fabbing my kit otherwise id continue this rant.

 

Last few words are 100% on spot. I ditched the vq before I came up with an upsetting failure, but futur build is only going to reliable shops that have been in the industry with nothing but proven results for years.

 

Cass,

It was 4 engines for me. Non of them made it to 1500 miles.

 

Sorry... didn't try to short change your pain.

Show me a single person that didn't have confidence in their shop before their engine let go. Everyone does research and asks around and then makes decisions based on reputation, budget, location and timeline.

Some (many) of the members going F/I now don't remember all the shops that have come and gone that were considered at one time or another to be great shops.

Dave Shiroma, Jeremy Tibbs, Scott Bush, SGP, Relentless Autosport, AAM, Function Tuned, Power Factory... these tuners and shops were all considered top notch at one time, where are they now? I can think of a few current shops that may make that list shortly as well. Also, I think you can find people that have had a negative experience with every shop if you try and find it... period.

Are there good shops and tuners out there? Of course. It just seems that over the past year or so everyone wants to associate the words F/I and reliable in the same sentence more and more. It used to be that 8lbs on a DE was considered the MAX. Now people regularly exceed that and expect some level of safety. The engines haven't changed, our acceptence of risk has.

F/I is AWESOME. It is the most fun I have ever had in my car, but a built engine is not a gaurantee of anything. You will get pearls thrown in about ...

"Its built for 700+whp" and "you overbuilt this for the whp you want"

followed by

"I turned the boost down a bit, for safety" and "you know there are no gaurantees when you modify an engine".

OP, I will stop jacking your threads now. Bottom line is that only your own wallet and tollerence of risk vs boost and whp can determine your path. Everything else is what has happened to members that have doe the same vs what those who hope to do it one day think.

/rant

 

I think this discussion has been waiting to come out for a long time and I think it's good to talk about. It's a topic that's always been alluded to but never directly spoken about.

I think part of the issue with the whole reputation deal "back in the day" was worthless in some regardless. Sure a shop may have had "success" but until they prove themselves, it's kind of pointless. Now we have shops putting down power and racing their cars, not just making builds and posting dyno pulls... You know what I'm saying?

I started my research through the forums, and based my decisions firstly off which shops performed the highest. Next I talked to the shops directly, usually on the phone. I eased into becoming a dynosty customer, started with small purchases and worked my way into spending a lot of money with them. I talked to several machine shops locally (fortunate to have a basically family friend who's been building engines for longer than I've been alive for advice), and around the country, quite in depth, and yes sometimes I asked questions to find answers (I sometimes can't figure out the most obvious of things it's a curse), and sometimes I asked them questions I knew answers to, to just see how much they knew.

I won't say which shops didn't really feel up to par to me, but the shop I chose consistently impressed me. The block I received was prime, well done... had all the little details worked out, a nice RA finish on the deck, chamfered bores, blueprinted (you could see the numbering on the rods), nice amount of assembly lubricant... Machine work that correlated with what I wanted; setting the floating pin clearances loose, matching a custom set of bearings instead of just using what I sent in... It's the details you don't ask for, things that should be just taken care of that I find important to take note of. You'd be surprised how many shops will put together an engine without doing the important details you don't see. A lot of times various clearances will "work" but wont hold up... and I would like to assume that was the case with multiple builds.

I feel like because the vq FI world is so relatively new, it's been much more like a free for all with shops and builds... IE until recently you would never see anyone even consider piecing together their own turbo kit. Now you have people not only building their motors but selling their own designed kits that are BETTER than those off the shelf (good on ya Sasha).

I'm not knocking anyone or saying anyone is ignorant of build processes, but I just believe that a lot of crap shoot shops were at the top in the past simply because the platform was new enough, anyone who would go for it was successful. I have negative opinions about shops that are still 'at the top' today. Some of it's based off of personal experience, some of it's based off of people I know who've had problems. I decided to be less confrontational about those negative opinions and push the shops I've found to be legitimate and quality.

 

I technically never lost a motor, the first motor was just tired from getting the living turds beat out of it for 12k miles and the second motor was fine (still in binders car now), I just had a turbo failure