Yes.

 

You can look at it anyway you want it. Its a free country.
A majority of winning street cars at the drag strip are running a centrifugal or a turbo.

If you had a 350Z running a roots blower making 340hp and a comparable centrifugal kit on another 350Z it would be making more than 340hp. That is my point.

 

On the Z it all comes down to what boost levels you run.

The roots @ 5 psi will get walked by the centrifugal @ 7 psi

The roots @ 7 psi will get the launch on the centrifugal @ 7 psi.

All these kits have the ability to boost past what the Z can take, so it is more important to set yourself up for the amount of boost you want to run.

IMO the Stillen non-intercooled, 5+ psi kit is useless. Too much money for not enough gain. The only people I remember using it have moved on to the Stillen 7 psi intercooled kit. Now that one is a very nice kit.

On a road course I would disagree with BLOBYU's assesment. If you are ever below 4500 RPM you are in the wrong gear. Even though you have to slow down to corner, you shift so than you are coming out of the corner at high rev's (unless you don't want to shift, in which case you won't really be competitive anyway and the extra low end of the roots blower won't matter). The Z's close ratio gearing lets you stay on the peak of the power curve even with a peaky torque curve. It is much better to have a higher power, but weaker low end setup than it is to have a good low end but weaker high end setup since you will be staying in the high end anyway.

In a drag strip it is different since the launch is so important. The lack of a low end hurts much more when getting out of the hole.

Now, if you have a kit with both a good low end and a good high end, then that's the best of all. On the street probably any of the setups would be fine, since they all make a very large amount of power.

-D'oh!

 

Where is this info on the Stillen? I didn't realize it was making that kind of HP.

As for the extra cost, I haven't done ANYTHING yet. I have the regular ATI 7 psi kit, no ECU, no new injectors, no J&S on the car yet. I got 360 RWHP on a hot sticky day at the dyno.

Oh yeah, my car (stock) wasn't 250 HP. I was just using that as a hypothetical baseline for my two example cars. I never dynoed it so I have no idea what it was stock.

 

how fast does Stillen SC run anyway? other than the 13.6sec? can it run low 13's with stock tires?

 

lol if someone has a stillen blower and is just putting 310 to the wheels if they cant run below 13.2 they are lame lame drivers..........by the way all the blowers for the Z are GREAT when tuned properly and all will haul *****, really dosent matter about roots or centrifical..............we arnt running NHRA are we?

 

Doctor.........thats the stillen unit with 7 lb pulley and intercooler...........but man that poor hood thats required ruins it....(..........ATI sounds GREAT when tuned CORRECTLY

 

That's cool, Doc. I didn't intend any kind of personal attack - I was under the impression from your posts (a long time ago) that it takes some SERIOUS TLC for installation and some additional timing and control equipment to get the thing tuned for the car

stillen dynos and other infos

 

Ok..... look at the dyno charts for the ATI or any other centrifugal blower. Overlay that onto a roots dyno chart. I was being kind in saying driving at 4500rpm. Tell me now when the centrifugal blower out peaks the roots. That is where you would need to be ALL THE TIME to outrun the roots. I believe the optimal RPM is 5500+. Now remember - the roots blower has already been at boost since the race started. So... again... I must stress the centrifugal has to not only CATCH the roots... you still have to beat it. That takes time and distance that the centrifugal doesn't have.

Not too mention you're not supposed to be driving aggressively when running the ATI .... according to ATI.

How that flies with people.... I'll never understand.

Here is what needs to happen to put an end to the speculation and finally help people to understand. There should be a performance (not dyno) shoot out. Isn't there a Mossy Track day coming up? Does anyone know if a Stillen blower will be there?

NOSty Mahn Needs to See-

 

Yeah... wait until you see the new Vielside Hood... it looks like it has a tubular rocket launcher in the middle of the hood.... SERIOUSLY. That's got to be one of those "if it's from Japan I have to have it".... even though it looks like ####. It's from Japan.... It's from Japan.... It's from Japan.

 

I wonder why Mercedes Choose a Roots blower for there E55 (12.3 @ 116mph / 496hp/440RWHP), and why Jaguar uses them on there cars? Oh ya same with the Mustang Cobra? Why not a centrifical blower?.........must be because there slower, thats why.....LOL.........oh ya price, no cant be because the GT40 has a roots also and thats $150,000 so cant be money, must be POWER and overall DRIVABILITY...............heres my list of best F/I methods:

1.) Turbo is the best and most efficient, besides Nitrous
2.) Roots Supercharger
3.) Centrifical Blower
4.) Nitrous Oxide


I have Nitrous and love it alot.........works perfect and hauls ***, as far as FORCED INDUCTION goes, The dreamworkes racing unit (ROOTS TYPE) would in fact be a DREAM come true for everyday haulin *** driving and the undespuded king of F/I for the 350Z other than the Twin Turbo options.

 

Does anyone have more info on the dreamworks SC? I have heard that no hood modifications are neccisary, but I don't know of any numbers as of yet. It sounds promising though.

PS. For clarification I say once again I am interested in 1/4mi. That is why the roots interests me. Although not digging having to mod the hood.

 

I am a big fan of "plug and play" parts, so I would think the Stillen would be a good choice, but I just left a dealership up here that has a show car Z with exhaust, intake, and stillen S/C and is dynoing 320rwhp. They had the Stillen carbon fiber hood with the big hump in the middle, it looked pretty sweet on that car, but I'm not sure if it would look good color matched.

They ran around a 13.6 at over 5000ft above sea level, which equals around mid to upper 12's at sea level (Texas, Cali, ect).

The car sounds incredible with the blower!

 

Eaton is not chosen because it makes the most power I'll tell you that. They are known for reliabilty and oem's are cheap.

Guys that want 600hp from their Cobra's are removing the Eaton and replacing them with Kenne Bell which is a Lysholm or similar blower. You can still consider them a roots type. Its not what they use at Stillen or for that matter many other places. Why did they remove the Eaton? The Eaton can't do max power. What are they using on 800+ HP Cobra's? Well I'll tell you its not an Eaton. Once again they can not flow as much air. Talk to a tuner that specializes in forced induction and they should give you the simple answer.

 

Get the centrifical and get a 35-55 shot of nos and only hit the nos out of the hole, then all will be equal.............or just get the Greddy twin turbo as that is the undesputed 1/4 mile king here..........The Greddy Twin Turbo is the best out of all F/I options by far.............not cheap but then again in life you get what you pay for, or they would be out of business!!!!

 

I guess you mis understood me, i never said mercedes etc picked root type blowers because they make the most power..........What I was trying to say is they pick them yes due to reliability witch should be a big important factor for anyone with a brain and they are very streetable, meaning torque down low and easy to drive.............its ok man i forgive you......... ........lol

 

mmmm...greddy tt + nos

 

The Cobra guys replace the stock blower with the Kenne Bell roots blower to make 600. The guys that put out 800+ are running the Procharger!!!!!!! A roots type is going to give instant off idle boost, while a centrifigal is going to have some spool time up to full power (even if it is less than a turbo). The roots blower is going to reach max potential at a low RPM but they genereally have a lower spin potential and will drop the power off earlier. A centri will make the power and spin faster in higher RPMs which always shows higher power numbers (power increases with RPM).

 

Let me just jump in here real quick. As for the OEM's only choosing roots...maybe things are going to change. I posted this in another forum earlier, but maybe you all didn't see it.

http://autoshow.msn.com/as/autoshow2...c=autoshow2004

This is from the 2004 detroit autoshow. Take a look at the fourth picture down. That will be the TRD optional supercharger. Doesn't the supercharger look familiar?

 

Here.... this will help:
I don't think most people understand what you are explaining. And doing a search on the web and reading a couple of pages of supercharger technology from the various propaganda machines out there (which is unfortunately what most people do) doesn't create instant grasp of the technology nor which is better for most of our readers....

Rayguns - Eaton style is a common phrase used to describe a roots type blower much as "Go make me a Xerox Copy" is used to say go make me a copy... even though you might be using a Canon Copier.

The Kenne Bell Blower is a Eaton Style Blower. When you say Lysolm... That is who invented the screw type or roots or positive displacement supercharger.... So, what you are saying is the same. Your comparison within roots blowers is just who is making the best system. There is a company called Magnuson Products. They are Eaton. They manufacture the Eaton Blower. Other people have their Superchargers private labeled through them. Unless you are NASA - you're not manufacturing your own blower castings, screws, lobes, etc. The cost in engineering is ASTRONOMICAL. This referrs to positive diplacement ROOTS blowers... not Centrifugal. The centrifugal market is not much different though. But since we're talking about roots blowers - I'll stick to that.

The Eaton Style, Lysolm, Hybrid Eaton are all the same basic technology with design changes inherent with different generations and different companies having them build using an Eaton Based Blower designed for their needs. The word Eaton is used in place of ROOTS and visa versa. Sometimes... incorrectly. but people identify with Eaton because it's a common trade name.... Like Xerox. So, along those lines, the Whipple Twin Screw Supercharger is also an Eaton Blower.... But people will argue until they are blue in the face that it's a Whipple.... Well, it is - by trade name. But it's still an Eaton. Know what I mean?

What do the Lingefelter Corvettes use...? The same blower as the Stillen blower, which is the same blower as Jaguar, Mercedes and countless others use. Kenne Bell has a unique housing. Whipple has their own housing. But they are all Eaton units. They use a 62 or larger cubic inch blower casting with 2 hemipherical lobes that wrap into each other much like a DNA strand - othewise known as a helical twist.

There many sizes available, but you run into the same problem as a large turbo as you move up in size... lag. It takes too long for the compression to build up and it requires more intake plenum volume to create the proper fuel mixture. So, if you went to a.... say 90-series blower, which means 90 or more cubic inch volume of displacement - you would need the adequate room for the air/fuel ratio to be correct for the power you are trying to generate.

In my .02 opinion.... Kenne Bell is PURE junk. I'd rather blow up my own car than put a stinking Kenne Bell on there. At least then I can just be mad at myself.

The key is mating the kompressor to the plenum and having the air/fuel technology to match the engine along with desired output goals. This is where companies fall down in R&D. You can't just bolt a blower onto the top of the motor, reflash the ECU deliver more fuel and expect to have the project done. And YOU CAN'T SHORT CUT IT EITHER. This is what causes detonation and eventual (if not instant) powerplant failure. Development takes a keen understanding of the SPECIFIC powerplant and it's computer mapping, logic, and of course the various OBD requirements inherent (due to programming) that each motor has. With that being said - what I just typed also requires lot's of money. Why? It takes intelligent people to work these things out. They cost money. It also takes prototypes and many changes to prototypes. It's not uncommon to tally up $250,000+ in R&D expenses to develop a proper system. That doesn't even consider the cost of then buying the compressor units, and manufacturing the accompanying parts like: intake plenums, air/fuel computer management pieces, machining the various components after they come out of casting.... the list is staggering.

All of this amounts to a given quantity of time and MONEY.

Back to the analysis:

Lysolm, Whipple, Kenne Bell, Neuspeed... are all positive displacement (roots) superchargers - which are all Eaton Based units. They all have their little design differences. The major difference is how well they accomplish their goals.... or in other words... how much time and money they committed to building the PROPER system. And that is usually inherent with a company that has a long reputation for either a specific product line (like whipple or kenne bell - though I don't endorse either of them) or a company that is known for a specific segment of vehicle(s) that they are known for 'tuning'. IE: STILLEN and Nissans, AMG and Mercedes, SVT and Fords.

So, it's not common for a company that is NOT known for building ... say Nissan or 350Z componentry to be successful right out of the box. Especially if they arrive on the scene first. That is usually an indication of hurrying up to be first which costs the customer(s) in the long run ... and the company. You wouldn't buy a Nissan 350Z Supercharger Setup from Callaway Corvettes without having some reservations about it would you?

So, I'm not sure why everyone is surprised that the ATI units are having so many problems with the Nissan/Infiniti applications. When was the last time anyone heard of ATI building Nissan systems? They rushed to be first with the most power .... And considering the analysis above, people wonder why motors are wadding up from improper air/fuel management, computer timing issues, fuel hoses popping off, no warranties, not street legal. If you search this site, you'll find all of these things. Why is everyone surprised??? And why would you continue to buy them? Isn't that a bit silly? The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, getting the same results, but expecting something different.... Or in Simpson's Terms.... Electrofying the Butterfinger Bar and watching Bart grab it and say ouch... grab it and say ouch... grab it and say ouch... grab it and say ouch.

In fact, you all swell around the hype (on this board) that they have with mustangs.... About the closest thing to a mustang or Ford in the import segment is a Mazda.... And Mazda doesn't build the Mustang.... just the ranger and some other vehicles.

But, because they build one thing and do it rather well - doesn't automatically mean they understand anything about a VQ motor, much less the systems attached. That's about as smart as the person who said... they're both positive displacmement blowers on combustion engines....

That's all NOSty Mahn has for now..... please be wise... it's your freedom. Use it.