Jax350z

From what I've read on this forum so far it seems like the stillen supercharger being a root type might be the best bang for your buck if your going for 1/4mi times as I am.

I like the greddy alot, but to get it above the stock boost limitations to pass carb it seems as if you have to spend too much extra money on electronic gear to save your engine.

If anyone here who knows about or has this stillen SC could give me some for info into this, and dyno/quartermi times it would be very helpfull to me in making my decisions.

PS. I know that the vortech/procharger ceterfugial type SC's run off of the crank pulley, but what is the difference with the stillen SC? Could I get away with an underdrive crakn pulley on a root's type?

Jax350z

I just want to figure out what FI type I am going with so that I can get mods that will complement it.

raygunz

A supercharger runs off of the crank on these cars no matter if its a roots or centrifugal. There's no other way to get the compressor to spin.

You wouldn't want to underdrive a pulley while running a supercharger for obvious reasons.

As for the 1320 the king of horsepower for the strip is usually a centrifugal blower. They make more overall power in the higher rpm ranges.

zparts

Yeah, that why John Force uses a centerfugal blower...

Oh, wait a minute...

raygunz

So he races a 350Z?

Apples to oranges.

raygunz

Paxton makes a centrifugal blower for the 5.0 that can support up to 900+ horsepower. How many roots type superchargers in the same price range and are for a street car can compare to that?

If you were looking for the most horsepower for the buck a centrifugal supercharger is the way to go. That is well known.

Its not any different for the 350Z. Of course horsepower isn't everything. I'd like a Stillen supercharger because you can bet it would add some serious torque down low.

BLOBYU

A mustang is about as closely related to a Z as a funny car is to a mustang.

A centrifugal blower is commonly referred to as a belt driven turbo. It's very 'peaky' which means the person with that type of blower will get their lunch served to them by someone with a solid roots blower. This means the roots blower wins....Why?

Well, while you are having a cup of coffee waiting for your badd a$$ centrifugal blower to spool up & create any HP worth mentioning, the person with the roots or whipple blower is drinking champaign with the (nicely naked) models at the finish line.

If you map out how fast you would have to go to not only catch the roots person ... but also beat them - you'll lose everytime. Especially in a 1/4 strip distance. This considers both of you are running stall converters.... or in other words equal equipment just different blowers.

Now switch that calculation to a good road course (common driving in real world situations, F1, World Rally, SCCA, Canyon Running). If you have a roots blower you always have power on tap like you said (down low)... the other person with the centrifugal spinner is constantly braking to slow down in order to corner. So, they'll never hit peak HP or Torque. Again... you win everytime. Peak is at least after 4500 rpm. When are you there? And how often?

Centrifugal blowers break down VERY OFTEN. What Car Manufacturer or professional race team uses a centrifugal blower?

Just my .02 - and don't get me wrong. Paxton makes good ford stuff. I wouln't use them on anything else, though. In fact, if you offered me a roots and a paxton or other belt driven turbo at the same price with the paxton creating more peak HP (at 5500 rpm), I'll buy the roots ALL DAY LONG AND TWICE ON SUNDAYS. Why? I don't drive at 5500RPM. And my ride will be more fun all the time. Not just at the top.

Now..... I must get back to the model girls at the finish line....

NOSty Mahn-

raygunz

The original poster mentioned being told that the Stillen was the best bang for the buck at the drag strip. I would say that is wrong. All things being equal horsepower wins on the drag strip.
Roots superchargers are less efficeint, they create more heat, and they don't flow as much air as a centrifugal. The ATI can make more power. I would say that most street type cars that regularly attend races at the drag strip that are winning run a turbo or centrifugal. If roots were so great you'd see everyone running them.

The 350Z engine makes power the same way as a small block Ford engine. How does a supercharger all of a sudden change characteristics because its in a 350Z?

I think you'd know better if you went to the drag strip a little more often.
I still like them as they're great but they are not as good bang for the buck if you pay the price Stillen is charging.

daking350

Heres my centrifugal supercharger DYNO...Looks like a pretty smooth HP gain to me..As I melt the tires through 1st,2nd and 3rd gears...

Dr Bonz

iTrader: (1)

My ATI would eat up a Stillen on the 350Z. As for "Bang for the buck", I assume you mean HP per dollar. The Stillen loses there as well. If you add together the cost of the SC, the new hood you'll need and the install vs that of the ATI then factor in HP, the ATI again comes out on top.

And please, no stupid jokes about the cost of replacing your blown engine. I have mine running safely and plan on making it even more safe with timing correction.

ZRAYGO

the only reason i don tlike stillen is because it is not stealth. people can see you coming....where's the fun in that?

Dr Bonz

iTrader: (1)

One thing to think about, and these numbers are VERY rough, but if you look at HP gains from the Stillen kit vs the ATI kit:

Stillen 250 RWHP stock goes to 300 RWHP for $3795.00 (NOT counting the $700 for the new hood)

ATI Procharger (in the same stock car) goes from 250 RWHP to 370 RWHP for roughly $5000.00

So, with Stillens kit you gain 50 HP for $3795 = $76/1HP

If you add the cost of the hood (which you HAVE to have to use this kit) it goes up to roughly $4500 so now it's $90/1HP


With the ATI kit you gain 120 HP for $5k=$41.6/1HP

If THIS is what you mean when you say Bang for the Buck, the ATI is better.

BTW, you may not be able to SEE the ATI coming but you certainly can HEAR it!

chaparro78

iTrader: (2)

Personally, I have seen the Stillen hood on a Z and it looks good. Pictures don't do it justice. The only thing that gets me is all the negative press that ATI has been getting with blown engines, bealts tearing, ect. When I called them, they said a new clutch, fuel pump, and injectors are recomended. Also, people are having timing issues with the ATI. When I called Stillen, thhey said all I need was the SC, thats it. Stillen may produce less hp but it is definately safer on the Z. From what I have seen and read they have done more research on the car than any other FI company. I personally would feel more secure when I sleep at night knowing I have a warrenty with the SC that Stillen provides. As for more power, Stillen has a stage 2 kit our right now and they have more upgrades to the kit that will add more power (not 50 state legal) that will be coming out in the future.

Dr Bonz

iTrader: (1)

That's all well and good and if that is what you want, fine. BUT, that's not what he said. He said "Bang for the Buck". Maybe he needs to define what he means by that.

BLOBYU

Also... doesn't STILLEN offer the Intercooled blower and for something like $80 you can add a 7lb. pulley... gotta go to their site.... hold on... ok.

Typical stock z dynos at around 235 to the rear wheels.

Supercharger w/Intercooler: $5239
Hood: $649.00
7lb. Pulley: $80
TOTAL HP TO THE WHEELS: 348.50 (425 AT THE FLYWHEEL ACCORDING TO STILLEN SALES MANAGER and 18% DRIVETRAIN LOSS MAKES 348.50)

TOTAL NET GAIN = 113.50
TOTAL NET COST = $5968 (no additional pumps, timing control, injectors, clutch, ECU reflash needed)


5968/113.50 = ..... That makes $52.58 per Horsepower.

And according to the guy from Stillen who posts here, you can put the 6lb pully on to be street legal and have an engine warranty. I'm not sure why there is any question as to which is better.

Doc - as far as cost per HP, you're correct, the ATI wins. But you are one of the few and the proud who had the money to make the thing work correctly. I think if you actually stated what the WHOLE setup costed you not just their blower cost, you would be talking about a different number... like reflashing ECU and such.

Sorry, but I have to go with a reliable system (or turbo). If you're looking for the bang for the buck, You just found it. ....and no wadded up motors. I'll take peace of mind knowing I won't have any stress.

Stress costs money, sleep, .... and makes people have to see the doctor....

One more thing that doesn't really affect the outcome of the costs per HP - assuming 250 RWHP was used for both of your comparison.....Dr. Bonz - You must have gotten a cherry Z to be saying the stock HP to the wheels is 250. I wanna know where one of those is available.

My .02: That's what zo cool about Amorica - freedom to choose wisely!

NOSty Mahn-

ravaz

iTrader: (1)

First of all, what are cars with the Stillen blower even doing in the 1/4 mile? Has anyone even ran one yet? There was a local guy that ran his not too long ago, I think it was something like 13.6 @ 105 or something like that, I'm not 100% sure. What are the board members running with it?

BLOBYU

YES!

BLOBYU

Yeah... but a roots blower has boost instantly. This means it is outrunning a turbo or centrifugal system from the word go. The non-roots blower has an inherant lag - so by the time the centrifugal 'spools' up. The roots is enjoying the sexiness at the finish line. How's the coffee?

BLOBYU

Da King.....

Overlay your dyno over a roots blower like the Stillen one and include the torque graph while you are at it. What do you see?

fluidz

umm if you had a 350Z with 340 hp at the wheels using a centrifical blower and a twin screw supercharger making a little less..... say 325hp - 330hp at the wheels..........the twin screw would eat the centrifical blower for lunch in the 1/4 mile..........torque is just as important as horsepower if not more.......i look at a centrifical blower like a skinny horse that is very fast, but i look at a twin screw supercharger like a strong muscular horse that is very powerful right away and very quick. The truth hurts i know as most of you here have ATI's, but thats the facts..........well the king is Nitrous being a fast horse and a skinny horse all in one package.