10psi build question
12-10-2020, 10:56 PM
#1
New Member
Thread Starter
10psi build question
- Stillen headers
- Fast intentions resonated test pipes and carbon fiber mufflers
- Motor dyne plenum spacer
- Snow Meth injection kit
- custom oil cooler
- Vortech supercharger with non standard pulley system
- 550cc injectors
- walbro 255 fuel pump
- Megan racing suspension
- Twin disc clutch from JWT
- Inter cooler
- Koyo radiator
- CJM Fuel return system
- 32/28t combo with 2.87
- 10-11psi
- Made 450HP on 100 octane +meth
I had this thing tuned on 91 octane making little less than 389 HP. 91 + meth was 420. It was making 7PSI due to some super worn belts. Swapped belts and it’s making 10-11 psi.
Engine is stock.revup* engine. Also meth is on a Toggle. I have five maps currently.
My question is. Should I be concerned about getting it tuned on 93 vs 100 octane considering engine is stock?
Worn belts made 7psi of boost 420 hp on 91+meth
Last edited by jdm0830; 12-12-2020 at 05:19 AM.
12-11-2020, 05:26 AM
#4
To add a little more to what I said...I would NOT rely on meth to make peak power. I would get tuned for MBT (Maximum Brake Torque) on 93 oct and then add meth for safety ONLY!
For example, if you are running 18* of timing that is more than likely safe on meth but could potentially be knock on 93. So you turn off meth and tune on 93, when you are happy you turn on meth and adjust your fuel to compensate for meth.
For example, if you are running 18* of timing that is more than likely safe on meth but could potentially be knock on 93. So you turn off meth and tune on 93, when you are happy you turn on meth and adjust your fuel to compensate for meth.
12-11-2020, 09:49 AM
#5
350Z-holic
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Yes, you definitely need to retune if you plan on running a different fuel.
10psi isnt a ton of boost and the VQ is difficult to knock in NA form but adding boost is exponentially increasing your risk of seriously damaging your engine.
adding meth for safety (as Conway stated) and adding it for it's cleaning abilities of your engine internals.
10psi isnt a ton of boost and the VQ is difficult to knock in NA form but adding boost is exponentially increasing your risk of seriously damaging your engine.
adding meth for safety (as Conway stated) and adding it for it's cleaning abilities of your engine internals.
12-11-2020, 10:33 AM
#6
New Member
Thread Starter
map 1- 91 octane
map 2 - 91 +meth
map 3 - 91 pops and bangs
map 4 - 91 + pops and bangs
i think 5 is like no faster than 30 or something. I forgot what I did for that actually lol
I need a tuner based outta CT. My car was tuned by church in Cali. Great job tbh
12-11-2020, 10:35 AM
#7
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12-11-2020, 02:01 PM
#8
350Z-holic
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So, do as you like, this is your car but 'pops & bangs' are the best way to blow-out your piston rings, stretch your valves, break welds on your headers, and otherwise damage your engine.
Furthermore, you have a rev-up engine? I've heard a few horror stories of rev-up engines losing their exhaust VTC gear spring (internal to the cog-gear assembly). I cringe when people thrash on rev-up engines ... you're asking for a engine rebuild...
Furthermore, you have a rev-up engine? I've heard a few horror stories of rev-up engines losing their exhaust VTC gear spring (internal to the cog-gear assembly). I cringe when people thrash on rev-up engines ... you're asking for a engine rebuild...
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12-12-2020, 05:23 AM
#9
New Member
Thread Starter
To add a little more to what I said...I would NOT rely on meth to make peak power. I would get tuned for MBT (Maximum Brake Torque) on 93 oct and then add meth for safety ONLY!
For example, if you are running 18* of timing that is more than likely safe on meth but could potentially be knock on 93. So you turn off meth and tune on 93, when you are happy you turn on meth and adjust your fuel to compensate for meth.
For example, if you are running 18* of timing that is more than likely safe on meth but could potentially be knock on 93. So you turn off meth and tune on 93, when you are happy you turn on meth and adjust your fuel to compensate for meth.
12-12-2020, 05:25 AM
#10
New Member
Thread Starter
So, do as you like, this is your car but 'pops & bangs' are the best way to blow-out your piston rings, stretch your valves, break welds on your headers, and otherwise damage your engine.
Furthermore, you have a rev-up engine? I've heard a few horror stories of rev-up engines losing their exhaust VTC gear spring (internal to the cog-gear assembly). I cringe when people thrash on rev-up engines ... you're asking for a engine rebuild...
Furthermore, you have a rev-up engine? I've heard a few horror stories of rev-up engines losing their exhaust VTC gear spring (internal to the cog-gear assembly). I cringe when people thrash on rev-up engines ... you're asking for a engine rebuild...
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bealljk (12-12-2020)
12-12-2020, 10:20 AM
#11
350Z-holic
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I spoke to a tuner out in Long Island yesterday evening. He said he can do the tune for me, but wants to toss the meth and add 1000cc injectors. Im ok tossing meth, but what can I tell the tuner regarding the meth as a safety? Or should I just have it kick in at certain boost level? he was saying that theirs only so much fluid that the cylinder and take before it becomes detrimental.
Get injector dynamics 1050X injectors ... they are 1050cc at 43psi of fuel pressure and our cars run at 52psi and you'll add another 50 to 80cc/min so a 1050cc/min injector will act like a 1100 to 1200cc/min injector...but yes, get 1050cc or bigger, nothing smaller.
yes, you can have it kick on at a certain PSI and you size your WMI accordingly ... check out AEM water methanol kit. Probably the best kit for your setup. Snow Performance make a more technical kit but I would just stick with AEM... You'll want to start with a smaller nozzle like a 100cc/min or 250cc/min ... which is next to nothing ... do some research on the AEM kit and educate yourself on that particular kit and educate yourself on water methanol injection in-general ...
I always thought it could mess up the engine. My tuner in Cali said if you did it right it should be an issue. However, I drove it a hand full of times on pops and bangs. its cute and sounds like a lambo, but it didnt net me anything other than sound effects. Happy to skip it on my next tune.
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Zvick91 (12-16-2020)
12-12-2020, 04:17 PM
#12
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Thread Starter
Look at water/methanal after you get tuned ... If you tuner doesnt want to deal with it than just smile, nod, and let it go...
Get injector dynamics 1050X injectors ... they are 1050cc at 43psi of fuel pressure and our cars run at 52psi and you'll add another 50 to 80cc/min so a 1050cc/min injector will act like a 1100 to 1200cc/min injector...but yes, get 1050cc or bigger, nothing smaller.
yes, you can have it kick on at a certain PSI and you size your WMI accordingly ... check out AEM water methanol kit. Probably the best kit for your setup. Snow Performance make a more technical kit but I would just stick with AEM... You'll want to start with a smaller nozzle like a 100cc/min or 250cc/min ... which is next to nothing ... do some research on the AEM kit and educate yourself on that particular kit and educate yourself on water methanol injection in-general ...
This is true ... it can be dialed down and the pops and bangs wont be as big/loud. All I'm saying is that use it sparingly ...
Get injector dynamics 1050X injectors ... they are 1050cc at 43psi of fuel pressure and our cars run at 52psi and you'll add another 50 to 80cc/min so a 1050cc/min injector will act like a 1100 to 1200cc/min injector...but yes, get 1050cc or bigger, nothing smaller.
yes, you can have it kick on at a certain PSI and you size your WMI accordingly ... check out AEM water methanol kit. Probably the best kit for your setup. Snow Performance make a more technical kit but I would just stick with AEM... You'll want to start with a smaller nozzle like a 100cc/min or 250cc/min ... which is next to nothing ... do some research on the AEM kit and educate yourself on that particular kit and educate yourself on water methanol injection in-general ...
This is true ... it can be dialed down and the pops and bangs wont be as big/loud. All I'm saying is that use it sparingly ...
so why the bigger injectors? Will it make a difference in reliability? Currently on some 550cc injectors
12-16-2020, 03:57 AM
#14
OP... Let me guess... did you call VTR in long island?! Those guys try and make you purchase things you DON'T need. Like 1000cc injectors or they refuse to tune or touch the car if you didn't buy the parts from them. I've Been there. For 400 whp they want you to run 1000cc.. which is crazy
12-16-2020, 07:44 AM
#15
350Z-holic
iTrader: (13)
Nah ... let me defend 1000cc and/or 1050cc injectors
First there is the purely mechanical aspect of running a 1000cc injector ... at 400hp you are what in the 40% to 60% duty cycle range? which if you ask me is damn near the sweat spot. Injectors are getting better and better and dwell time and injector flow linearization (mostly down low at ~5% to 10% duty cycle) is much better now than it was in previous years.
Nothing wrong with a 500 to 600cc injector but you'll but flashing at a much higher/longer duty cycle/pulse width to get your same 400hp.
Going with a 1000cc injector also give you plenty of room to grow .... if you start bumping up into the 500hp or 700hp range (with a built block of course) than you have plenty of room in those 1000cc injectors. Where if you were to stay with 600cc injectors you are past the 80% duty cycle and will be buying new injectors anyway...might as well buy the right ones, the first time.
Last, resale value ... if you part out or go even bigger than 1000cc injectors you will get much better results from selling used 1000cc injectors versus used 600cc injectors ... anything under 800 to 1000cc injectors sell for $100, $150, maybe $200 on the used market - and that's if they sell! Plan on holding them a long time, nobody wants 600cc injectors. Where 1000cc injectors will sell for significantly closer to your purchase price and you will sell them much faster.
Just my two cents ...
First there is the purely mechanical aspect of running a 1000cc injector ... at 400hp you are what in the 40% to 60% duty cycle range? which if you ask me is damn near the sweat spot. Injectors are getting better and better and dwell time and injector flow linearization (mostly down low at ~5% to 10% duty cycle) is much better now than it was in previous years.
Nothing wrong with a 500 to 600cc injector but you'll but flashing at a much higher/longer duty cycle/pulse width to get your same 400hp.
Going with a 1000cc injector also give you plenty of room to grow .... if you start bumping up into the 500hp or 700hp range (with a built block of course) than you have plenty of room in those 1000cc injectors. Where if you were to stay with 600cc injectors you are past the 80% duty cycle and will be buying new injectors anyway...might as well buy the right ones, the first time.
Last, resale value ... if you part out or go even bigger than 1000cc injectors you will get much better results from selling used 1000cc injectors versus used 600cc injectors ... anything under 800 to 1000cc injectors sell for $100, $150, maybe $200 on the used market - and that's if they sell! Plan on holding them a long time, nobody wants 600cc injectors. Where 1000cc injectors will sell for significantly closer to your purchase price and you will sell them much faster.
Just my two cents ...
Last edited by bealljk; 12-16-2020 at 09:35 PM.
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Zvick91 (12-16-2020)
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bealljk (12-16-2020)
12-16-2020, 09:37 PM
#17
350Z-holic
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The flip side ... if you are deadset on 500 to 600 cc injectors, and dont mind them used than you can get a great deal on someone parting out their 600cc injectors ...
12-17-2020, 04:38 AM
#18
James, I agree on having more room to grow, duty cycles etc. My Point is-- If my 600cc are good and more than capable to support stock block numbers ( 8psi ) , why would one need 1000cc for just a re-tune? -- The shop should not deny a re-tune just because you don't have 1000cc injectors. To recommend 1000cc or bust is a bit overkill for stock block. IMO
OP- Check out https://www.facebook.com/realautodynamics/ - Give them a call. Talk to Alex, the owner. They do a lot of work on Nissan / Infinity and he is very knowledgeable on the VQ platform. My best recommendation would be RT Tuning in PA. Its a bit of a ride from us, but well worth it. Vince@RTtuning FTW.
OP- Check out https://www.facebook.com/realautodynamics/ - Give them a call. Talk to Alex, the owner. They do a lot of work on Nissan / Infinity and he is very knowledgeable on the VQ platform. My best recommendation would be RT Tuning in PA. Its a bit of a ride from us, but well worth it. Vince@RTtuning FTW.
Last edited by Vas_Z33; 12-17-2020 at 04:45 AM.
12-17-2020, 08:36 AM
#19
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James, I agree on having more room to grow, duty cycles etc. My Point is-- If my 600cc are good and more than capable to support stock block numbers ( 8psi ) , why would one need 1000cc for just a re-tune? -- The shop should not deny a re-tune just because you don't have 1000cc injectors. To recommend 1000cc or bust is a bit overkill for stock block. IMO
OP- Check out https://www.facebook.com/realautodynamics/ - Give them a call. Talk to Alex, the owner. They do a lot of work on Nissan / Infinity and he is very knowledgeable on the VQ platform. My best recommendation would be RT Tuning in PA. Its a bit of a ride from us, but well worth it. Vince@RTtuning FTW.
OP- Check out https://www.facebook.com/realautodynamics/ - Give them a call. Talk to Alex, the owner. They do a lot of work on Nissan / Infinity and he is very knowledgeable on the VQ platform. My best recommendation would be RT Tuning in PA. Its a bit of a ride from us, but well worth it. Vince@RTtuning FTW.
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Vas_Z33 (12-19-2020)
