was wesman

iTrader: (7)

What is everyone doing about timing ? I've seen a couple different scenarios:

1. J&S Safegaurd
2. TS flash

Anyone have both ? What are the advantages of one over the other?

Any problem with running both ?

Also what plugs is everyone using.

I was going the nitrous route and have the NGK iridium 1 step cooler plugs, will these be ok with the ATI ? I heard that ATI preferred a 1 step colder copper plug because the plat and irid plugs held too much heat ???


Thanks for any info.

--wes

jesseenglish

J&S safeguard.
LFR6A-11 (one step colder copper plug)

No problems running both, it's a bit redundant though. The advantage a J&S would have over TS is the ability to modify your timing settings and it's ability to individually retard cylinders when it hears knock.

TS advantage: Program it and forget it.

Enron Exec

Hi wes, hope you remember me from the other 350Z forums. I have had my ATI kit on for about 5 weeks and racked up almost 2000 miles. Its as fast as it is loud. lol.

mprowe350

I recently swapped to TS reflash for 8 pound SC and ditched the DFMU/pump supplied with the ATI kit. I also use 380cc injectors and there is noticbly more power using this setup and was very easy to install. It is safe to run both and by having the J and S is just more assurance. Use the colder cooper NGK plugs because they are cheaper and should be changed every 6000 miles The copper perform fine.
Mike

Dr Bonz

iTrader: (1)

Mike I am thinking of doing almost exactly what you are going with. Have you dynoed your car? What HP and torque did you get if you did? Any issues at all with running the J&S and the reflash? Did your power improve at all with the larger injectors and the timing?

Thanks.

mprowe350

Dr Bonz,
I actually don't have the J and S but do have SC tuning which includes modified timing maps. I was running the complete ATI kit but didn't care to much for that and wanted a timing solution that didn't require tuning. Running both shouldn't cause a problem but maybe you should try the J and S for individual cylinder retard based on the factory knock sensor for added reassurance. The timing is reduced in the reflash. Only issue has been that the car seems to be rich at 3000rpms and a CL twice for that most likely but have only cleared and not read. The dyno is scheduled for this wed and I will post results on thurs. Feels really good at 6600 and above!
Mike

zcar03

iTrader: (7)

I am gong to install the ja nd s safeguard this week. The directions I have have NO pics. Anyone know where I can get pics?

How many degrees should the timing be retarded per psi of boost?

Whats the best plugs to use considering I will be running nitrous in the future 75hP

wfcall

Hey Guys,

I have worked extensively on my Female friends 350z and she and I have done all the installation and tuning ourselves; a lot of the above questions y'all pose I have dealt with.

Bear in mind this is only my opinion and observations.

Her setup
2004 with Auto
ATI making 7.5 psi according to Autometer
Still using the DFMU
NGK-LFR6a-11
Headers
Test pipes
Injen SES
Dynojet Wideband commander which drives an A/F guage and also datalogs A/F/ TPS/ RPM/ BOOST for later playback.
The wideband commander also has a programmable output which is being used to drive a relay to turn on the switched retard input on the J&S if A/F goes leaner than 12.5 at 80% Throttle and over 4500 RPM
Level ten valve body ugrade.

And MOST importantly J&S UltraSafeguard

Plugs-You MUST use 1 step colder at minimum; ATI suggests this but it is absolutley needed-Everyone I know in houston with an ATI that didn't change plugs roasted the plugs and shed porcelain and the electrode into the combustion chamber-don't use Platinum-It holds too much heat as well. Even if the A/F is perfect the heat is still there because of the added combustion pressure of F/I.

Technosquare is great 'cause you can lose the DFMU and the aux fuel pump and that is the route we are gonna go eventually. Although I'm not sure I would not add an E-manage for further fine tuning without reflashing again or perhaps reflash and leave the DFMU for fine tuning A/F only.

I LOVE J&S Ultra Safeguard. I use one on my Vorteched Chevy truck and consider it a lifesaver. No matter what other management tools I had on a boosted engine I would have The J&S for the knock retard funtion alone. The factory knock funtion is not capable of retarding as aggressivley as the J&S

Heres Why-with a reflash technically once your programmed your finished and eveything should be fine.

What if you lose fuel/fuel pressure or get a load of crappy gas?
Lose cooling and go hot/lean w/o noticing in time?

The ULTRA Safeguard will retard timing under knock conditions no matter what is 'causing them. It can do the cylinder responsible or all of them. It can retard 10 or 20 degrees and then feeds advance back in a little at a time.

It can be programmed so that the only thing it does is knock retard and 2 degrees RPM based retard starting at 5200 and all in by 6200 if you are using a reflash and thats all you want it for.

It can do the whole job itself if you want

Boost based retard-from 0-2 degrees/psi
Rpm based retard-2,4,6, or 8 degrees starring at 5200
Knock control-sensitivity adjustable
Also has a switched retard input 2 or 4 degrees which can be used for;
Nitrous
Crap gas
Input from any other managent tool with a programmable output

It also has an LED which tells you when it's sensing knock and becomes more intense the worse the knock. I removed the LED and extended the wires so that it could be mounted right in the drivers vision.

Our settings
RPM based retard-2 degrees starting at 5200
Boost based retard-starting at 3.5PSI
-1.5 degree per PSI above 3.5
This means at redline and 7.5 psi of boost total retard is at 7.5 degrees retard. That seems to work for this car pretty good. We have tried a little less retard than this but on pump gas at the drag strip the knock retard will kick in. A properly tuned safeguard will pull the correct amount of timing using the RPM and Boost based retard without ever having to do knock retard. If it's tuned for max power then knock retard will be right on the "RAGGED EDGE" of active under heavy load.

Also if you fill up with race gas which we do sometimes for the strip or dyno days the settings on the J&S can be turned down so that the unit will run full factory timing minus 2 degrees. And then it's primary purpose is knock control only.

The other nice thing about the J&S is that due to the fact that the DFMU is so easy to pull out and play with it's really easy to lean things out to much before you realize it. The J&S will save your a** in cases like this. I think that the ease of playing with the DFMU is the reason that so many people have ruined motors with the ATI.

Sorry this was so long.

wfcall

The direction for the J&S are on thier website;

Pay close attention to the terminal arrangement on the Interface board as it relates to cylinder numbers. I thought it was obvious but I still screwed it up cause I didn't notice some of the lines crossing in the wiring diagram.

zcar03

iTrader: (7)

Wow awesome reply. Thanks guys. Im getting at it this week.