Enron Exec

Hey guys,

I might be getting my motor built sometimes soon, very soon, and was wondering what brand of rods and pistons are test and true for the VQ35. What kind of crank HP can i expect with just the rods and pistons replaced. What are some other components i should replace for longevity or even more power? Please chime in all you motor gurus! I would like to have to only do this once.

And how does one go about choosing the right shop to do this? What do i need to look for or ask?

SQUILL

I cant comment on how much hp you will get n/a as i only will build my motor to force more psi into it however Nissan Warranty guidelines allow 18 labor hours to remove and replace a motor so whatever shop you use take their labor rate per hour x 18 hours and this will cover removal and reinstalation of the 3.5 l motor.

The shop i got my quote from is building two motors bored.20 over with pauter forged rods and sgp racing 8.5 to 1 pistons. JWT cams and titanium valve springs. the labor for this work is 9 hours plus 200 for the machining of the block.

The stock crank is highly capable of running 800-900 hp however you will need to replace the crank if you want to rev over 7000 rpms safely.

so you have 18 hours for removal of the motor and re install and 9 hours to rip the motor apart and install the forged internals cams and springs.

now im not an expert on what rods and cams and pistons are better than whoevers but the shop i was talking to did say they ordered the crower rods because of their h beam design but sent them back because of poor design and machining.

from what ive heard the pauter brand is well respected and their motor's goal with The greddy TT is 650 rwhp minium.

They liked the JWT cams better than the nismo cams because the increased lift and duration of the JWT cams best suited forced induction.

Titanium valve springs retainers are a must when you are running higher lift cams as well.

Ok so their labor rate is 65 per hour so here is a rough estimate

27 hours total labor = $1755

JWT Cams = $1100

Pauter rods = $1175

Sqp racing pistons =$1175

titanium valve spring retainers =$ 495

block machine .20 over =$200

misc shop charges & gaskets = $350

I dont know if the prices on the engine componets are the best out there i just pulled them all of one website but the grand total:

Grand Total = $6250 + tax

Running all over a $650,000 porsche gt3 in a twin turbo 650 rwhp Nissan 350Z ......PRICELESS!!!!

hope this helps u out keep us updated if you go ahead and do it!!

Enron Exec

Thanx Squill!

Do you think it would be worth it to port and polish the heads along with the new JWT cams and tit valve spring install? Or do you think the cost of ~$3000 for a new race head or the labor for all the port and polish is not a good return since the cams do a good job already?

PoWeRtRiP

depends on your goals, if you want big power get the heads while your at it, if you just wnat good power dont even bother with the p and p as the stock head flows pretty well as is.

etx

Pauter makes some of the best rods you can buy. I'm sure you saw how well they were made before you installed them.

Are you going to have closed deck sleeves installed or a solid insert?

Enron Exec

K, thnax PoWertRiP

Hey etx, any idea how much the closed deck sleeves and solid inserts are safe up to? I dont know if im going to aim for that much power. I think i'll be happy with 500-600 rwhp.

SQUILL

I asked them pretty much the same exact questions as above.

They said that the factory heads were about the best heads they have ever seen and felt porting and polishing them would do very little if anything. As far as race heads were concerned again they felt the results would be very little for the $$$$ spent.

On a more interesting note they were very critical of the nissan factory plenum as both motors they tore down showed signs of serious lean conditions in the #5 and 6 cylinders so they wont even build you a motor if you dont address this issue they reccomended the crawford v5 plenum to even out the airflow to all cylinders as F/I + lean conditions = boom!

The titanium valve spring retainers are a must they said as these motors are going to run 7000 rpm redlines with a more agressive lift and duration that the JWT cams supply.

When i asked them about resleaving the block they said after talking to nissan and some race teams in japan that the cylinder walls would handle 25-30 psi no problem and the block will support 1000 hp+ with the factory sleaves... the bigest thing you need in the VQ35DE is the forged internals not the block itself, Keep in mind this is with the block bored .20 over!

I cant wait for some more info from them as they progress on their project car the biggest thing holding them back right now is the factory fuel system so this is what they are working on now.

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

An aluminum block will have trouble handling 650whp+. I am 95% sure that the sleeves in the VQ are not solid iron. The main cylinder wall is aluminum, and there is a like 2mm of iron sleeved into it. I wish I had a picture to describe what I am talking about. You really need a full iron sleeve and semi-closed deck to reliably support this much power. I mean....if you are going to spend $6000 to do this, then do it right and spend another thousand for a sleeved/semi-closed deck. The aluminum cyclinders will start walking with this much power. If you look at the big gun Supras and Skylines, they are making 800plus HP with the stock iron block...there is sooo much strength in that block. I havent seen numbers like that from any aluminum block street cars.

I like the H-beam style rods...they are proven very strong and reliable. NOt really sure if there is an accurate why to determine if one brand of rod or piston is stronger than another. All of the main players make EXCELLENT quality rods.

This is a really good thread, and I am eager to hear what the engine building experts think. Engine building is something I am not super-knowledgable on....but I better start learning fast before I dive in!

SQUILL

First of all i havent decided if i am gong to build my motor or not as when you are takling built motor, Twin Turbo kit, wheels & tires, clutch, solid rear lsd, exaust, plenum, guages, labor, tuning you are talking 20-25 grand roughly.

I really want to build the block and do the turbo kit at the same time but man spending that kinf of whip in one shot makes me a little light headed so i will probably just do the TT kit,exaust,clutch and guages first and maybe build the motor later.

I was very critical about the blocks strength when i was talking to them as you are now GQ about the sleaves i mean why not do it when the block is ripped apart right???

Well they were positive that running 25+ psi on the .20 over stock block would pose no danger. They have talked to Nissan, Stillen, and some prominent race teams in japan about this issue and they all said the stock block can handle 1000 hp with the stock crank provided you redline 7000 rpm.

Of course all we can do is speculate at this point until we have a bunch of built motors being force fed with 25 psi of twin turbo joy!

Believe me i will be keeping a watchfull eye on this car of theirs as it is fully race preped with roll cage and everything so i know it will see some hard track time this summer and hey if it blows up i guarentee you i will find out why so i guess only time will tell until we start seeing some more of these mortors out there and get testing data out of them.

From what they were saying this is not an all aluminum block and suposedly has heavy duty iron sleavs from the factory ... how thick they are and if the're solid or coated i personally dont know all i am doing is relaying information that i have gotten from one shop that is building two motors exactly the same way and what they have told me...and of course i will hound them some more shortly and post any updates that may help out my fellow Z car owners!!

On another note I have spent tons of time looking for iron sleaves for this block just to see if they were out there and the cost but the only one if found is in the AEBS stroker kit has anyone found sleaves for this block somewhere????

SQUILL

Anybody got good pics they could post of the block where we could see the deck and tell perhaps how thick the sleve is????

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

I hope we can find some pics. You are totally right....it is ALL speculation at this point...in terms of how much power the VQ can handle on 91 octant gas and F/I. The limits need to be RELIABLEY explored. It's not enough to have one guy build up a motor and say...look...i hit 1000whp no prob. we need multiple data points to draw any meaningful conclusions.

stiv

My 2 cents: I'd go with Venolia (custom) pistons...

kudos

Here are some pics of my built block.
http://store.yahoo.com/sgpracing-store/ab03ni35.html

The car has been running great for about a month now, my brother took it back to SGP yesterday to have these parts installed:
-RC 720cc injectors
-x2 Blitz DD Blow off Valve
-Walbro 255 pump
-Power Enterprise radiator
-Helix test pipes
-JIC Y-pipe

And get everything tuned. Finding the injectors was a pain but RC finally sent us some. Look for results in about 10 days.

Enronexec, since you are in houston i would really recommend SGP, they did a wonderful job on my car.

SQUILL, the total you rounded up seems just about right, the only difference i went with is the TOMEI 264 cams.

SQUILL

WOW!!!! NICE SETUP!!! those are some great pics of the block
and it looks to me like the sleeves are plenty thick. Is the block itself completely stock as far as the sleeves are concerned ???

Also does SGP Racing have an idea as how much HP they think the stock block can handle with forged internals like like yours?

Man keep us updatad PLEASE!!!!!! drool....

DrCold

How are you handling fuel delivery and timing? Are you running a return line? AAAHHH!! I can't wait to tear my car apart. I'm just trying to wait and see what people come up with first. It's hard, but I'm doing it.

kudos

Yes the block is otherwise stock, they didn't tell me how much this setup would be able to handle but they did say that it would be ok for our goal, maybe 600whp on pump gas and high 600's on race gas.

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

Wow...looks like the entire sleeve is iron! Excellent news! I would still close the deck...or put a semi-closed insert while I have the engine out of the car. With that...you could easily exceed 1000whp!!

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

holy crap...I saw the other pics. Looks like they already closed the deck for you! Very nice.

PoWeRtRiP

what exactly is a sleeve?

Enron Exec

Yea im confused, I see one pic of the stock open deck and one pic of a reinforced sleeve. They didnt mention thisin the parts list at the top either. :/

I saw kudos's car at Teaworks, a local car meet in Houston, and it was X 10. Kyle, one of the main guys at SGP said the block could safely hit 800 rwph. I just could remember all the question i had to ask him.