Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

Let me start by saying this: This post is speculation and assumptions based on my experiences with my car...a 2004 350Z. I cant confirm this becuase I dont have access to my stock ECU programming. This is a caution for those that have a 2004 Z and intend to put the Greddy kit on your car.


The Greddy kit was designed on the 2003 350Z, and the eManage fuel tables are designed for that ECU. Also, the Greddy in stock form, doesnt address timing, so again..the kit was designed to safely run without timing adjustments on a 2003 ECU.

I think I am the only one of the boards with a Greddy kit in a 2004 Z....someone correct me if I am wrong. When i first dynoed my car at 5psi, my car bottom out at 11.5:1 A/F ratio. But when 350now dynoed his car on the same dyno, his car appear to be at or below 10:1 for most of the run. At first, i was like...well, maybe my car is just running differntly that his or something, and dismissed it as nothing.

However, after driving the kit for a few weeks, I noticed that my car started pinging every so slightly at 5000rpm...even at stock boost..and running 11.5:1. Again, I though it was just a bad tank of gas or something and dismissed it as nothing. Well, over the next few weeks, I would conduct some more WOT road testing and would hear the same faint pinging...on occasion, it was quite loud. You guys may rememeber I posted something on this weeks ago, and i was unsure if it was tranny noise or knocking...well...it was knocking...for sure...again...at only 5psi and 11.5:1 AF. (I have an AEM wideband on the car).

So I replaced the fuel with 100 octane race gas, and did similar testing WOT runs. The pinging was completely gone. Went back to 91octane gas, and the pinging returned.

Fast forward to last week, when I installed the timing harness. I retarded the timing from 2degrees to 8degress at redline. I gradually fed the retard into the ECU. Did the same testing runs at 5psi and the pinging was totally gone...and A/F was still at 11.5:1

So here is my theory. Greddy designed the eManage for a 2003 ECU program, which apparently runs richer and has less timing advance in it than my 2004 ECU. This would explain why my stock Greddy runs were at 11.5:1 and 350Now's are at 10:1, and even Kenji from Greddy told me the kit should run at 10.5:1 or slightly richer. So maybe in 2004, Nissan leaned up the fuel map/increased timing advance for some reason. Maybe emmisions purposes or something.

So please, if you install the kit on a 2004, please monitor your A/F and timing very closely..and LISTEN for the pinging. If you hear it...let off immediatley.

And if anyone else has an 04 Greddy TT, I'd like to hear your input as well.

FYI: I have the NGK Irdium's one-step colder than stock..so I know its not the plugs.

aalzuhair

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the "heads up" I'm still waiting on my UR TT kit, UR fueling system and UR exhaust, and I have an '04. And I will defiantly post my experience with the UR TT kit and E-manage; mind you it’s a Middle East specification (similar to European in so many ways)

Also, I would like to thank you for some very interesting posts you have been posting Very informative.

Thanks,
Az

PS: where from did you get the NGK Irdium's?

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

you might start finding there are more than 1 variation of the Z ecu, even within a given model year....lots of companies do this for one reason or another.

Subaru, for example, as had the WRX out since 2002 here in the US. I forget the exact number, but there are several versions of ecu that came with the car in that first year alone, and some are totally different in their timing tables than others.

Would be interesting to do a comparison test among 2003 and 2004 owners, documenting build dates, any writing on the ecu itself, etc. It could be as simple as one car having more or less base timing than another, or it could be totally different fuel/timing tables altogether. only way to know for sure would be to start sampling data, using the same datalogger across an aray of people.

derek_i

I am 03, ACP is 04

-D

2003z

iTrader: (7)

if it turns out to be true, technosquare could probably flash you to stock 2003 specs.

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

I dont really need a reflash, per se....I just made corrections via eManage and it runs fine.

If there are differences between 03 and 04, I just want Greddy to know about it so they can act accordingly. The kit is marketed as ultra rich and safe....but I feel it's very safe on an 03, and bordeline on an 04. Based on my limited experience with my car, i dont think the kit is safe on an 04 without the optional timing harness.


Z1, for 2004, Nissan made 9 different ECU's for the 350Z. But I dont think the mapping was different...but who knows. The main reason for the different ECU's, I think, was to randomize the mobolizer codes or whatever.

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

Thank you for the kind words.

I got the plugs from Dynamic Autosports. You might ask around...I think I paid to much becuase they were the Greddy branded NGK's.

Fall-Line

gq.

Your posts are very informative, and I thank you for your contributions...I have discovered much by using your posts as a springboard to my own research...

Keep up the good work..

P.S. You get BONUS points for using the word "ensconced" in a post yesterday about sleeving/decking the VQ.
=)

turbo-maxima

the tt kit comes with new injecetors right (370's)? 91 octane, do you have axcess to 93 octane or 94 octane? Might want to get a full fuel system cleaning from nissan. Or might put some sea foam in your intake manifold. You might have a lot of carbon buildup which could be causing your pinging.

7 eleven

Mine is a 03 and runs at 10.1 or greater under boost. But I'm dead stock other than the kit. Did you have the 11.5 A/F when you first bolted it on? or was it after the Cats and exhaust. When did you first hear the pinging? Was it right away or after the add ons? It sounds like you always had this problem but, I'm just trying to narrow it down.

Good post. Remember during the ATI problems they claimed that a few Z's had really aggressive ECUs?I didn't believe them but maybe there is something to it. We need more info from the 04 owners. Their stock A/F's should be higher also if it is an across the board change in tuning since the emange just adds a fixed amount to the base value at given rpm and flow points.
Gary

SQUILL

Maybe you should ask Chebosto he might be the one to know if the 04 and 03 ecu's have different fuel maps or timing.

Also i think somebody that works for Technosquare posts here as well ....from what ive seen here if anybody knows if there is a difference its probably one of them.

350Now

Very great and informative post GQ.. I think if we can have TS dump the ECU info to their laptop for analysis that would be ideal.

This is a very probable theory, we need more sampling of 04' with Greddy TT and some dyno readings to compare to 03's.

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

My first dyno run was with RT Cats and Stock exhaust at 5psi. On the run, the A/F was actually kinda lean at 3000rpm....even at 4000rpm, but gradually worked its way down to 11.5:1. I am pretty certain that is NOT how Greddy intended the kit to run. It should literally drop straight to sub 11:1 range......as did 350Now's when we dynoed his. 350Now has stock cats, but full Nismo exhuast from the cat back.

Oh, and for those with the great memories, I did that dyno run before I installed the Profec and Turbo Timer, so the RPM adaptor was working correctly during that run. You'll recall my RPM signal was messed up for a few days.....

See, I've had the kit for only 2 months, and I rarely take it redline and kill it. Most of my driving is cruising gently. But I do recall that some minor pinging was present from the very begining. At the time, I honestly thought it was tranny rattle or drivetrain noise, becuase it was so faint.

And now, after hearing about that dude's 04 G35 coupe that detonated like crazy on his first test run....I am begining to think the stock Greddy prograrmming is not very safe on the 04 ECU without timing retard.

Chebosto

iTrader: (43)

the reason Sherif could be having higher than normal a/f could possibly be due to his RT cats..

there ARE several different versions of the 04 ECU, as well as the 03 ECU.. there are several known differences in the code. it is DEFINATELY not for immobilizer reasons... i has to do with the options on the cars and other certain things.... Technos is in the process of acquiring data for R&D purposes for the 04 ecu..

the stock ECU, is not safe for FI over 5psi unless timing is retarded.... stock timing is pretty aggressive from the get-go...

imho, have the core programming changed and then have your piggyback do the rest...

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

Would RT cats take A/F from 10:1 to 11.5:1?? That is a huge jump, especially give that the RT cats are maybe providing 20hp of gains at most with F/I. I guess its possible, but the car was pinging with RT cats and the super-restrictive y-pipe and stock exhuast....again...running 11.5:1, and only pulling 333whp at 5psi.

If TS wants to download my ECU program...I'd be happy to swing by.

Chebosto

iTrader: (43)

Ypipe and exhaust will not affect the inputs your ECU takes to adjust the fuel / timing maps. but plenums and cats have proven to alter it.. perhaps with your TT and the lack of proper burning cats, your A/F is leaner than what greddy is stating since they probably took those readings with stock cats and their evo2 exhaust...



as far as the ECU program in your car, the ECU if the code isnt already known, will have to be flown to japan for downloading before testing can begin.....

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

But Cheston, at WOT, the ECU isnt even looking at the inputs from the O2 sensors on the cats, so I am unclear as to how that would effect A/F levels??

Based on previous posts on the RT cats and lean conditions, I am not totally convinced that is the issue. Seems like there are always odd factors that come into play, that may explain the leaness. There were plenty of guys at the last dyno days with RT cats that were not running lean. In fact, when I dynoed my car totally N/A with stock cats...I was running leaner than most other cars. Go figure.

braceman

I own a 04 Euro spec 350Z and recently installed a Greddy TT.

I believe it is the first car in Europe equiped with this kit and all I can say is that the kit works perfectly well with the Euro spec ECU my car comes with. All mechanical and ECU parts perfectly fit to the car and no modifications to the Greddy base map was done till this moment.

My tuner-mechanic and I drove the car for at least 1k km after the install and we never experienced any signs of detonation or pinging during the runs although we drove the car with the stock spark plugs- waiting for the NGK plugs to come- and car has Kinetix cats and Borla TD on it.

Maybe the 100 RON pump gas we have overhere plays a significant role on providing high resistance to detonation.

We use the Profec E-01 as a boost controller and we set lo boost at 5.8 psi and hi boost at 6.4 psi. I rarerly use the hi boost setting since I see 100% IDC over 5K!! Hope Walbro fuel pump will solve this issue...



Cheers

Kostas

PS: I have no A/F readings at the moment since I still wait for the ZT-2 WB to come. As soon as it arrives I will hook it and see how rich or lean I run!

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

braceman...yes... your high octane gas is a life-saver. When I was using a mix of 94-95 octane fuel, I experienced no pinging at all...ever.

MadneZz

I just had my ECU replace recently, because I had a defective one. From what I found out, there are 26 variation of the ECU. I took them alomst a month to get me one from Japan, because there were none in stock in anywhere in US.