bruschijr

the only reason why I thought it possible was because of sequential turbos... ones bigger... more boost... still works.. wouldnt the path of least resistance be into the engine and not into anywere else? Another form of boost... more resistance than an intake right? Maybe I could use that DW blower..... whenever the hell that thing emerges... if it does... Just seeing if all this is possible..

PoWeRtRiP

oh so you want the sc to work as a sequential system, it could work but it would have to be a positive displacement blower.

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

Twin charging=F@CKING INSANE!!!! Thats so much power potential. But hey, if you got the funds why not. You'll need to spend some SERIOUS money on fuel managament. With all that boost and **** going on you may as well go full stand alone. Electromotive Tec-3 maybe? Damn, you ARE crazy.

bruschijr

I have the funds.... Have the time.... have the interest... but unfortunatley don't have the knowledge.. I am so happy to be part of this forum.... everyone here is kickass! I am learning as much as I can, I am suprised how well everything is going with my car so far.

June 30th I get my big commish check

Its either Top Secret Wide Body... or Stroker Kit... I'm leaning much more towards the stroker kit.... thats probably the way I'll go... assuming AEBS still has one by the end of June

As for the SC....just an idea... definatley far away. but im sure if i get tired of the power i have... like I am begining to get now... Im sure it will be a consideration....

Powertrip... what is meant by positive displacement in the SC? and working as a sequential.... would it help with total boost...or just help get the turbos going?

Yes def...the stroker kit... why spend 8 grand or more for some fiberglass.... and rims and other crap for nothing but more weight...

Anyone know if there is an installment option for the stroker kit.... I could probably get it sooner?

PoWeRtRiP

it would only work to help spool. positive displ sc will generate there maximum boost at low rpms unlike the centrifigals we have which hit full boost at redline. i hope you got lots of money to do this bc price would be about 30k to do it right with standalone. thats without the built engine. personally i think a well setup twin turbo system would more suit your needs. if you are looking to blow 50k on mods why not just get a better platform like a supra, rx7 or 300zx. they are much easier to build and will provide better results.

bruschijr

do you think it would be better to just use Nos to get it started.... It would save weight and lots of cash huh?

PoWeRtRiP

A LOT!

bruschijr

thanks for the help.....

just wondering on one of my other q's though..

The 2 turbos add 300HP each.... is that the turbos limit.... as in they can only handle 300 HP each before they fly away... that would limit the total HP from the turbos to 600HP..

Or is it really (what i think) the turbos will add an additional 600HP at max capacity....giving you a total of 887...assuming everything in the engine was set to stock specs and could hold it..

From there could you give it more NA mods like exhaust, cams, pullies, etc.... if thats the case then Id think the engine could easly hit a grand with the 16g's.... enlighten me!

etx

No way is a 20g compressor housing going to fit the greddy setup without modding the engine bay.

bruschijr

thats what I originally thought about the 20g's... but i dont know how big they are..

What if you lowered them a little bit.... would that work... the 18's are pretty far up there....do they need to be?

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

If you got the money you could have AEBS make you some custom manifolds for some bigger snails whil they have your block. I'm sure you could fit something like a T04e on there if it was position right. But then again I haven't pulled this apart yet.

EDIT: THese look nice... http://www.jimwolftechnology.com/cus...asp?PartID=439

7 eleven

I feel that you understanding is off of what actually happens. At least you have the guts to ask most people on here are scary with their 1000hp dreams and limited knowledge.

Do the turbos stop working after they have hit their #'s for example... after 300+300+287 = 887.... will i damage the turbos with exhaust or other mods that could bring it up higher than that?

Turbos do not "stop working" the hp numbers come from their flow ratings. Which is a pretty generic number that manufactures come up, Think of it as a "rough idea". You can go past that number but the turbo will be out of it's efficiency range and start producing high outlet temps. Which will increase your risk of detonation and the high shaft speed could shorten the life of the turbo. All in all when your pushing a factory turbo past it's range it's not too big of a deal due to the low hp limits "relatively" But when you get above 500hp the margin is to thin to play with.

Or can i add say 25lbs of boost with the TT's and add another 10lbs with a SC?

Well no. Turbos and Superchargers” Compressors" work on pressure ratios they don't see x psi of boost they see x in and
x(2) out. Or twice the pressure going out than what’s coming in. and it doesn’t add up nice and neat. you can set you turbos to 25psi than add a supercharger and set the pulley size to give you 35 psi total but the levels of boost added buy each unit will be determined by many variables. At high boost the supercharger will be a restriction and the air pushed thru it by the turbos with spin the rotors thus putting power back into the motor via the belt. (very inefficient).

Also the intake from the supercharger will be from the outlet of the turbos for the very reasons you stated (back flow) as well as an air metering nightmare.

I see your serious about this so I must tell you too purchase "Maximum Boost" by corky bell it will lay a great foundation for your knowledge. My two cents on Twin charging is that is sounds cool but for any car with a budget it's not worth the money.
I hope this helps and good luck.
Gary

redva350z

if you had a supercharger/turbo setup it seems to me they would have to join and then go into the intake. if that were the case if they were not set at the same psi level (ex. supercharger = 10 psi and turbo = 25 psi) when the turbo's built up boost above 10 psi then it would back flow through the supercharger and vice versa with when the supercharger was boosting and the turbo had yet to boost. think of like two pumps pumping towards each other the one that pumps more would push through the other. i think that it would have to be set up with some kind of dual damper and blow of valve setup to control flow and save the parts from failure. man this **** is crazy plus i've been drinking tonight haha but it seems logical at the moment what do yall think.

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

The Greddy TT's18G's are easily....easily good for 15-20psi and 600-700whp...no problem. Dont think of the TT's as a limiting factor at all. Peak efficiency on the 18G is roughly 15-17psi....beyond that, you'll reduce efficiecy, but still be within the operational scope and usable limits of the turbo. Right now, our 6psi kit is also not even on the efficiency island...so the compressor outlet temps are as hot as they would be with the turbos spinning at about 20psi. Understand that when a turbo is operating either below OR above its peak efficiency, the compressor outlet temps will be hotter than optimum....hence...risk of detonation is higher than optimum.


I agree with the above...that the big HP numbers are always made with a large single turbo...a la Supra or RX-7. So if I had an unlimited budget, and the time and energy to fabricate customer piping and manifolds, I would do a signal turbo for MAX peak power...not a twin. This is the reason that most high HP Supra's ditch the twin turbos for a larger single turbo setup.

bruschijr

Thanks guys!

I entered with no knowledge at all.... and like some have said, I am dreaming of 1000HP without knowing what I am doing... but I would like to try... and learn the proper way to do it... I emphasize that. Even if I dont reach it... im still happy with what I learned.... and anyway the fastest car I drove before that was an Alero. So Im good at hearing what these numbers will give.

I read hours on hours of articles and magazines about performance.... yet I still have so many fundamental questions... Im glad i am getting them answered... guess I should go out to Barnes and Nobles and get some good literature...

I think I'm at least getting the basic components for one hell of a car though.. I have a loose schedule to get my engine lifted around the last days of June or the first days of July.... hoping to get one of those stroker kits.... its a loose schedule cause I have to make sure everything works out, but I'm pretty confident I'll be one of the few on the east coast at least with one of these things.

I was told today by AEBS that the internals can take 32psi and can rev safely to 8k..... I know there has been discussions on this... but thats what I was told today... An ECU wil be worked by technosquare to get the engine running somewhat smoothly until it can be tuned.

OK.... so say I get the kit in with the GReddy TT's (as of right now I'm gonna stay with TT...since I have only seen 1 single turbo with no hood).... I'd like to know how much further I can go with the turbos... Is it worth putting other NA mods on the car if the turbos cant handle it? And more importantly....are there any ways...like ceramics... to keep those temperatures down in the compressor?

If I could find a way to fit two 20g's ( couldn't I just put them lower under the engine?) what would they be capable of?

I am really interested in everyones ideas on how to achieve this... I will look into everything to see what could work.... I know I need other things from fuel to clutches to tranny's, etc... My focus right now is to get a powerplant with that potential.... I can keep everything low boost until I get the parts needed to turn it up... thanks for the help.... and hey im sure some other people will try some of these things too! I've sat back and let people test everything.... I'd just like to return something..

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

Hi Anthony....I'd stick with the turbo components as is for the timebeing. Ceramic or heat treating the exhuast housing, center section, and manifold would be on my list of to-do's...again...assuming money is no object.

Other than than...I'd have TS do the preliminary relfash to get the car running at a conservative PSI level...then you can use eManage to fine tune. This motor responds so incredibley well to boost, that I am still doubtful you'll substantial exceed the usable limits of the 18G.

But after talking to you on the phone...you seem determined to have the capacity and peace of mind to hit 1000whp. If so...yes...new turbos are going to be needed. A larger compressor housing wont fit....but maybe...just maybe...a slightly larger exhaust housing will fit. We are are talking serious modding here...they'd need to rebuild and balance that TT.

I would try Turbonetics or Garrett...this is definately a custom operation to make everything work correctly. And I am far from an expert when it comes to turbo housing's AR's, wheel trim...all that crap. Go to an expert like Turbonetics or Garrett...and the can customize you turbos to your needs...that will fit...and will generate the power you are looking for. There are many many different variables they can tweak, without chaging the physical outside dimensions of the compressor housing...which appears to be the constraint. My compressor housings is so freakn close to the body.....

Good luck...I hope I win the lottery soon so I can do the same thing...hehe...kidding.....I'm happy for you that business is good!!!

bruschijr

Thanks GQ....

I was really meaning to say that I was wanting to hit 1000 at the crank... I hope thats not what you thought I meant... I believe there is a 15% drivetrain loss from the crank to the tires about....is that right? so what I was really meaning was 850 at the wheels.... I wanted an engine and turbos to be able to handle 1000HP, not 1000whp.... does that sound more in the realm of possibility....?

With that being said.... I'd not really like to blow myself up and say too many things I plan on doing when I really am doing everything basically trial and error. But I would definatley love to be the one giving out data to everyone.. Dont necessarily plan on me hitting my mark off x HP.... but plan on letting me show you guys what potential TT's have on a 350Z... I'd be happy to at least contribute that much.. and I would definatley love to contribute to ideas you have for me once everything gets underway..

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

Drive loss is closer to 20%. So if your goals is 800whp...I would just stick with the 18G's....no rush....right?

Hey...does this stroker kit come with a modded cylinder head? I dont think it does...so how the HECK can AEBS say you can rev to 8000rpm with that long of a stroke, and without doing some head mods, like titanium valve springs, and upgraded beefer heads/ports/valves. 8000rpm seems incredible hi while leaving the head stock. Maybe I missed something....

Damn....8000rpm is nutty. Are they giving you titanium con rods as well??

Dom

So go on and get the AEBS stroker kit.
They said it'd handle easily over 1000 hp with the 8,5 pistons and sleeves.
And there will be no need to have an additional FI.
The 18Gs can produce over 400hp each.
And to your question: no, you can't count like 287+300+300
You will only have the hp that the turbos are capable of. But I don't
know who told you about 300hp per turbo?

SQUILL

Hello 1000 hp! You can build this engine without the stroker !!!
Seriously. check out mjmturbos.com they may be the answer I talked with them quite a bit when i was going to rip apart my S4.
If anybody can modify these mitsu turbos they can. check out some of the hybrids on their website

http://www.mjmturbos.com/TD05GARRETT.htm
http://www.mjmturbos.com/Td05HybridT04e.htm
http://www.mjmturbos.com/Td06-Td05.htm

Check it out the td05-18g ported to accept the 20g compressor wheel.

Also the td05/ garret t04 Ball Bearing hybrid.

I talked to this guy quite a few times about a ko3/garrett BB hybrid turbo for the s4 It was going to be sweet until i saw the 350z!!!!!

With this kind of turbo you should be able to flow 600-650 cfm x 2 @ 20-25 psi and have it bolt in to the existing greddy TT kit!!!

Hello 1000 hp .

Of course you will need some giant fuel injectors and the like but ive been talking to the right people who say the block and crank should handle 1000 hp!!!!

i wonder how much hp that plastic reinforced carbon fiber drive shaft of ours can take???? not to mention the tranny and rearend!!

Ha anyway my point is the turbos you need to fit in that small space to make 1000 hp you allready have they just need to be modified.

I know this car has 1000 hp in it.....all the glory to the one who is first to build it!