I'm dissapointed that I didn't get to finish the dyno with the bad pinging. I had my hand held programmer and could have taken the timing out, but didn't want to hold you guys up (it takes about 5 minutes to put the stock tune back in). I should have left the stock tune in the first place....that "predator tune" sucks....but the problem is that stupid program puts in a "tune" when in reality all I want out of it is to compensate for my 3.73 gears so my speedometer won't be off and for my fans to kick on earlier to compensate for my 160 degree thermostat. I guess it's not worth it if im pinging......I took the tune out before I left strictly dyno and did some WOT....no pinging. Now I'm curious what it would have done.

Anyway....damn you guys with TT's or SC's you guys are going to make me go out and spend $ on forced induction for my G35....it was supposed to be a "daily driver" "I'll leave it stock....it's my daily driver''...ya right..I can't help myself. Besides...I have a good excuse....I'm done with the SS once I get a dyno tune....it's pretty much at the edge as far as passing smog anyway and I could live with 370+rwhp normally aspirated.....now it's time for project G35...thanks a lot guys

 

Recap is coming! I got home late last night, and havent had a chance..

Something is definately wierd with this dyno...but something is also strange with my car...I'll explain in a bit....


GTG

Sharif

 

Ahhh Sharif....

been waiting for the offical results

 

Hey Daniel, F/I for the G haha..? Sorry I couldn't be there. I'm in for the run next week at ACH if my car is in healthy condition.

 

Hi Chris, first, it was great meeting you...even though I think I have met you before. But anyways, although I think the dyno was suspect, there are other issues at play here.

First of all, the stockish 350Z's were making 225whp (manual tranny). The 214's you refered to are the autos...which is normal. When I dynoed my stock car here in Jan, I got 226, so you are getting almost 15whp more than stock.

Second, every day, and every dyno is different. It's not uncommon for there to be discrepancies in WHP.

Although your mods are considerable, most of them are not designed to make huge amounts of power. For instance, I love your plenum (I want one), but the evidence is scant that they actually producing major peak hp. They have been shown to produce an increase across the band, but not major hp at the peak. Patrick did a back to back with the Crawford and got negligable results.

Third, and probably most critical, is that you were running at about 14:1 or slightly leaner. This is robbing you of power. Although it's a common misconception that 14.7:1 is where cars produce max power and torque...this is NOT the case. Peak power and torque occur at exaxtly 11.3-12.4:1 A/F ratios. With a richer curve, I'd expect another 10 hp.

After everyone left, ZXSAINT dynoes (12.8:1) A/F and he has almost identical mods as you, Chris, and he dynoed 256!

So I share your frustration..I mean..even my run was kinda bizarre, but I think I am suffering from clutch slippage and manifold leak. With 405peak torque, I should have had a 415whp run or greater.......

But I would totally blame the dyno.....

 

I am sure this was mentioned by a few there, but just in case - remember, you cannot compare your dyno runs at another facility, even one with the same dyno, to your results at this dyno day - the better comparison is how your car did relative to other NA or FI cars with a similar mod level.

For example, as gq mentioned, if Chris and ZXSaint have similar mods,and one car pulled 238 and the other 256, then there are some issues with the lower hp car (assuming the mods are truly the same, or similar enough that one could reasonably assume similar power). Remember, the Z ecu is extremely finicky!

Dynos are relative to one thing and one thing only - themselves on the same day.

How did the FI cars stack up to each other (ie Greddy vs Greddy, Greddy vs PE, Vortec vs Vortec, etc etc).

 

Thanks for setting this up Sharif, sorry I couldn't meet you all there (was knocked out on painkillers till noon).

By the looks of it, the dyno is probably shorting us about 10hp. But that doesnt matter and should still let us compare eachothers numbers with some accuracy.

I do see that Chris and I have almost the exact same power mods, except he's still got stock exhaust. That could be a HUGE bottleneck holding you back given the increased intake flow you now have. I think that you may have the potential of gaining ~15-17rwhp with the SES (thats on your wish list). Remember, modifications like intake/exhaust work together to make power, and neglecting one huge piece like exhaust could negate the gains of the other items if its not flowing on both ends.

Also, I think it was gq who discovered that 2003's run slightly richer than 04's out of the box. This could make a big difference as to how they respond to breathing mods.

Next step for me is probably a SAFC to dial in more fuel.

 

Sorry we missed you patrick. Regardless of results, we can all agree that we had a great time..and that was worth $45 alone!

Honestly, based on the runs last January at the same dyno, I think the results are comparable...but I agree...this dyno reads low.

 

Well, I just got back home from outta town (why I had to take off right after I dyno'd Saturday). I have to say that I am somewhat glad to hear that I was not the only person who was disappointed with the dyno results. Thanks Sharif and zxsaint for pointing out the possible discrepencies in the dyno results. I know that an exhaust would be of great help... but my wallet tends to disagree right now . I definitely need to get my lean condition checked out. I know that from what I have read, CATS alone can make your car a little lean (I think it was RT's specifically, but I assume all cats would have similar results). Other than a TS flash, is there anything I can do to correct this lean condition?

Sharif,

In regards to the KINETIX Plenum, I would hold off until there is a test done specifically for FI. I know that they are working on a plenum designed specifically for FI (it will replace both top and bottom portions of the plenum), but I have not heard of a release date yet. There are a few guys that are spraying with V3's and I haven't heard of any issues, but that is still N/A and has negative and not positive forces inside the plenum.

Personally... I say wait until KINETIX releases their "FI Specific" plenum, or go with another maker.

THANKS AGAIN and it was GREAT to see you all.

-Chris

 

Hey Folks,
I had a very decent time at the event. Thanks to Sharif for setting it up ... it was well organized. I wound up the unofficial camera man and my lungs the exhaust fume scavenger !!! So, yes ... I have everyone (w. the exception of ZXSaint) on video . I will have them extracted and encoded to be posted in coordination with Sharif's final result post.

The highlight of the day were the ZGuy’s TT Z32, Sharif’s ‘leaky’ TT, Narcotic’s ‘hampered’ Vortec G35 and the ‘ping-pong’ SS Camero of DanielG’s. The ole SS wanted to jump off the dyno and launch at everyone … scary, in a very cool way. Was someone playing with steel marbles while your SS's running?


Just a few things I'd like point out …

One shouldn't get too caught up with peak power and torque figures. While it has some merit and for certain bragging rights, the real meat lies within the shape of the curves. You could have well made some significant gains else where. I would strongly encourage people have their dyno plots scanned then superimposed to see where and how they're gaining or losing power. PM me if you need help with the superimposing. Undoubtly, this particular DynoJet on this day appeared to have poor accuracy (down by several percents), but it did also appeared to have good precision as two of the bone stock 5AT Zs both pulled identical 214 hp on the nose with plenty of runs in between them.

Also of special note for the people who run aftermarket wheels. If you're rear tire OD is significantly larger than that of the stockers ... then expect the appropriate loss and the exact opposite if it's undersized.

To Chris and ZXSaint,
I would love to obtain your plots (preferably a high-res scan) so I can do some photoshop magic on them and see how they compare on top of each other. It would also serves as a guide for me to decide my next mod(s). Please PM for e-mail address.

Oh and finally a special thank to John (aka Amy?) who ‘took care of’ our lunch. Thanks buddy!

 

You could go with the APEXi SAFC module. Phatmitzu had it in his car. All it takes' a private dyno session to get dialed in. If only it will also alter ignition timing in addition to the AF ... I'd be all over it rather than the TS route.

 

THX,

Thanks for the info on the SAFC module. A question though, what is the price as compared to a TS flash? I mean is it close in price ($500+), or is it more "reasonable"?

Also... I will scan and e-mail you my disappointing Dyno graph. Let me know what your e-mail address is.

-Chris

 

Chris, THX....in my opinion, skip the SAFC and go straight the an eManage. You dont need F/I to run the eManage...it works great with N/A cars as well. All you need to the eManage (less than ($299) and the injector harness (I think those are about $75), and you can add injector pulse width just like the Greddy TT people. You'll also need the Greddy Support tool software that is floating around, and a clone cable for $50 to connect your PC to the eManage. It is far superior to MAF condition in terms of accuracy, and doesnt have the unwanted side effect of altering timing in an unintended way. It's the next best thing to a stand-alone! And if I am not mistaken, its cheaper than the SAFC.

Good luck!

Sharif

And John....seriously..thanks for lunch....we are still unsure exactlyt what happening at the Pho place. The bill was easliy $100 with tip, and then John (AmyCroft) announces that the bill is "taken care" of. He had this devilish grin on his face, and a big smile. He assured us he didnt pay the bill himself...but rather...he "knows the owner"...sheeesh.... I guess the mystery will continue......haha

Either way...much appreciated..and a really nice gesture nonetheless! You are the best!

 

Your welcome Chris. I was secretly cheering for you, because I have the new v4 Kinetix plenum coming in.

In regards to price, the SAFC has a definite leg up over the TS ECU at ~$280. One could argue it only does half as much however.


PM sent btw.

Clint

 

Oh that right Sharif. I have completely forgotten about the eManage! I agree this would beat SAFC in just about all ways minus the cool dot-matrix display. It is also wallet friendly (at half of TS ECU cost). I do have some questions for you, but I really really gotta jam right now, so I'll get back to you on this

 

Not just size but also weight. While my 19" wheels are the same diameter/weight of my oem track wheels, my heavy tires make a *huge* impact on performance. I weighed them and noted a difference of about 4-5lbs per wheel.

I actually swapped the rears out before getting the dyno done so that i could compare the numbers to my previous dyno.

Anyway, here are the results (Sharif asked me to host):



*EDIT: Forgot to add UR pulley to my mods.

 

Saint,

What was your A/F?

 

Zxsaint,
That's correct, the mass of the wheel/tire package is also in the equation. I meant to imply that as well, but did a rather lousy job in wording it. For that matter, I ran on the dyno with my heavier 19" package (because I have no prior baseline as a point of reference), which is approximately 3% under my stock O.D. and equates to an ~7hp advantage. I'll conservatively take away a couple of ponies from the 7 for the added mass, making an educated guess of +5hp advantage for this package. This puts me in the 236hp range on an allegedly low reading dyno. Not bad for for an 4-door sedan with exhaust being the major mod.

By any chance, could I get a high-res scan of your charts (before and after mods), so I can compare mine to yours like I did w. Chris' below? PM me for e-mail address. Thanks


Chris,
Here's a superimpose of your chart (red) vs. mine (blue). You're running stock wheel/tire combo correct?

 

I am hella jealous...

 

I'll scan the chart tonight and post it up. I was a little dissapointed that they weren't able to copy the files to disk. I'm gonna stop by there next sat and try again as using runviewer makes it much easier to compare our charts.

Chris: I got 14.2@4000rpm sloping down to 12.8@6500