I currently have the Vortech kit. It's a great kit and AFAIK it was the only forced induction option for the G35 sedan at the time I had it installed back in December. However, 8000 miles later I find that modifying my car has become a hobby unto itself and am I'm getting restless.

My ideal FI solution would be the following:

(1) Garrett (or similar) turbos that are at their ideal efficiency range at 8 psi as opposed to the impractical 12-15psi of some turbos in popular kits

(2) Customizable A/F and timing maps that I can modify myself and for my exact car as opposed to having to send my ECU across the country and cross my fingers. Something similar to the SS box or the Greddy solution--not password locked.

(3) An intercooler. And one that doesn't require removing the front structural brace.

(4) A BOV that only makes noise during blow-off. Why anyone would ship a kit with no BOV is beyond my limited understanding. Why the out-of-the-box Vortech BOV whistles like a banshee is also a mystery.

(5) The ability to run at 6psi daily driven and with the press of a button be at 8.5psi (i.e. multiple fuel/timing maps that can be switched on demand and while driving).

(6) A safe, ample, dependable fuel solution. I don't know enough to know if this means that I need a fuel return line or if a combination of an auxiliary fuel pump such as that found in the Vortech kit and 440cc injectors is sufficient. I can tell you that on my car the Vortech kit has plenty of fuel with the aux pump and the stock injectors all the way up to 10psi. But I can surmise that a TT setup would require a lot more fuel because it is at full boost in the RPM band that appears to need the most fuel (ie. 3000-5000 rpms).

Many of the folks on this board have come up with modifications to existing kits or full-on custom solutions that meet many if not all of these ideals. I guess I've been waiting for someone to come up with a cookbook recipe for this (ie. follow the steps and it will come out right) at which point I'll be ready to sell my Vortech and plunk down whatever amount of money is necessary.

I've thought about using the PE kit but upgrading the injectors to 440cc, buying a BOV, and using some sort of software controller for A/F and timing. Relying on technosquare to program something that works just right for my car at both 6psi and 8.5psi is simply NOT an option for me due to my location (North Carolina).

I've also thought about letting a nearby shop do a fully custom job using the intercooler, BOV, and SS box from my Vortech kit. I wouldn't be able to switch between 6 and 8 psi on the fly, but I could make the change in matter of minutes by loading the appropriate map in to the SS box. However, I can't find anyone who will sell me manifolds/downpipes/etc--whatever those things are--for a reasonable price.

Suggestions?

--Steve

 

if you can find someone willing to make manifolds. let me know that is the only hurdle i have in putting together a custom kit. my friend told me that summit? and racing beat? sell manifold piping which you can use to make your own manifold. and its very cheap though obviously would be difficult to get it right. sourcing turboes, ic piping, downpipes, fuel etc, is very easy once you can get a manifold.

 

Zimbo,
It sounds like you may have supercharger remorse and instead want a turbo. Turbos have the blow off sound during blow off that you are looking for, instead of the whine that superchargers make at idle. It is also easier to change the boost like you mentioned, just by turning the dial. However, as mentioned earlier there are no turbo kits availble today meeting all of your needs. IE smaller turbo (not sure why you want this but...), an IC that doesn't require removing the front brace. Really the closest thing avialable to meet your needs is the greddy kit. Than just change the fuel system like you suggested.

However my adivise since you already have the vortech kit would be to ditch the SS box and external pump and just add larger injectors and an ecu flash. Now I know you had concerns about having the ecu tuned for a car that is not local but that really isn't a problem. If it isn't perfect the first time send it back. They have done so many of these it probably wont need to be reflashed.

 

Steve, Can't say that I blame you for wanting to go turbo, especially on this car. Not that a supercharger is bad, it's great and I enjoyed mine, but not on our engine, I'll take a turbo over a SC. The manifolds for this car wouldn't be too hard to make. Finding someone down where we live in NC to make the manifolds wouldn't be too hard at all. There are many many race shops that do this without a problem, if you need help finding one let me know, also if they would need any stock headers (when they fab the manifolds up) you can have mine, I have 2 sets Good luck, it would be real cool to see you go turbo, I think you'll enjoy it more. Let me know if you need any help.

Bill

 

It may be "supercharger remorse" because it does make the car annoyingly loud at idle but it's more likely a matter of not knowing when to say when as far as mods go. Realistically, the only exit strategies I see (i.e. no more mods to this car) are: (1) totalling the car, (2) moving on to another hobby, or (3) buying a faster car and modifying the new car instead.

As for ditching the SS box... I don't see why I would do that. Even if I added larger injectors and got a special FI flash from TS I would still want the ability to fine tune locally. This car is my daily driver and having to rent a car for a few days every time I want to change the A/F settings doesn't work for me.

--Steve

 

Thanks for the offer. If you have contact info for anyone who could make manifolds let me know. As I've mentioned before, one approach I've considered would be to ravage the stuff I already have from the Vortech kit (intercooler, BOV, SS box, some of the piping) and add the necessary custom parts to go turbo.

Another option would be to sell the entire Vortech kit and start over with a PE kit that has been modified to meet my needs (i.e. two boost settings, BOV, etc).

It seems stupid to put this much money into a G35 sedan, but the facts are that (1) modifying a car is a fun hobby and (2) I don't know of any other upscale 4-door family car (I'm not counting the WRX or the EVO in this mix) that I can make go really fast without spending even more money.

--Steve

 

wait for the APS kit

 

yeah i would say either PE or the APS, zimbo check you PM

 

APS claims that a G35C setup will shroly follow the shipping of Z kits. Might want to query Peter about Sedan futures. APS is looking more and more like the "premium" kit if you got the $$$.

 

I'm willing to bet that the APS kit would work just fine on the sedan with few customizations similar to the Vortech kit. When I see the street price I'll know for sure but for now it looks like the kit to beat.

--Steve

 

APS seemed to think that the main diff beteeen a Z and G kit woudl be AC line relocation and some duct work. Street price was rumored to be <$7900 USD.

 

zimbo-

i mated the greddy type S bov to the maxflow unit, and it looks as if they are IDENTICAL footprints......

i REALLY would like to try a diff. BOV too, as the low rpm venting (albeit 1000% better than the original bov i had!!) seems unecessary, and due to the shape of the horn more than anything.

today i reversed the direction of my bov horn (facing outward) and added the vortech filtercap to it.... MUCH MUCH better than before...... (only took minor fenderliner trimming to make it so)

personally, i am smitten w/ th3e vortech kit (maybe im still green?), but i am a return vortech customer, so i knew most of what i was in for....

eS

ps- in search of this ultimate FI setup, WHAT are you wanting to do that you cant/wont do now? Im curious.

 

I just found out today, that the Greddy type-s or any other turbo type of BOV will NOT work with superchargers. The BOV we have on our vortech kits is actually a bypass valve. THe difference between our bypass valve a turbo's blow off valve is that our valve stays open under vacuum. Ever notice that our bypass valve is always open at idle?
A turbo's bov like the Greddy stays closed under vacuum and the valve opens ONLY when you let off the throttle and immediately closes after it relieves excess boost. Some BOV's will allow you to use it as a bypass valve by adjusting the spring and piston, but I don't think the greddy will let you do this.

If we put the Greddy bov on our SC'd cars, we will have MAJOR compressor surge.

 

I don't know... I'm just bored. Ok, ok... here's a few reasons: I've decided that when I pull up to a stoplight in my 4-door sedan I don't want anyone to hear anything that would indicate that the car is faster than greased shat. I also would like more torque and a low-12-second 1/4 mile time w/o having to resort to full drag slicks.

--Steve

 

The reason why you would ditch the box is becasue many have had problems trying to make the TS flash work in conjunction with the SS box. I am uncertain if this problem has been fixed but the last guy I spoke to couldn't make it work. He had to choose between one or the other. Guess which one he chose...

Why would you change the A/F once you have it dialed in? Yes you may be without your car for 2 days, (if you use next day shipping). And yes you can have it tuned perfectly by a shop locally. If it is unsatisfactory the first flash, just send it back with the reccomended changes. It is a simple process. I'm sure your daily driver was down for a couple days when you had the S/C installed.

Since you sound so concerned about having the car for daily purposes... Why would you change to a turbo? Talk about install and tune time. And if you really want to use the turbo to capicity,. you must rebuild the engine and fuel system. More down time.

To me it sounds like you have put a lot of money into the car already and may not be happy. Starting over again is not always the answer if... 1) you drive the car daily and 2) If money doesn't grow on trees in your neighborhood.

By the way I plan on having a high 11, low 12 sec car without slicks with my S/C Z.

 

Well, zimbo, I am paying close attention to your adventure, cause I am still riding the fence on the whole SC/TT thing. I am so much on the fence that it makes me think I should just keep my car stock performancewise and save my money (yeah right, lol).

On the street, all I really have the room to do is run out a whole gear, whether it is 2nd or 3rd. If you keep your rpms high, the SC is fine, but just running out a whole gear, the TT should be far more fun with its torque down low.

zimbo, if I were you, I would sell the Vortech and use the money to start fresh with a TT.

 

He probably means that he wants to do everything locally so that he can just take his car in to have it worked on. Sending something out to TS is just something I wouldn't want to do either. Having someone local to tune an SC or TT would just make me more comfortable, and will determine what direction I do go. For instance, say if I have some problems with my wheels, sending them to Cali is a pain, if you can get it done locally, it is cheaper and easier.

zimbo, you have a pm...

 

whosdady... I have the L-Spec TC reflash (ie. increased rev limit and throttle body adjustment) but I frankly DO NOT believe that Technosquare or anyone else can dial in my car's A/F ratio correctly without having my car. Unless they were making changes to the ECU with my car sitting on a dyno I wouldn't be comfortable with it. That's just me.

I like the fact that I can do a dyno run, make a few changes to a map and do another dyno run to see the affect of what I've done. I can have a hot weather map and a cold weather map. I can have a 100 octane map for track use only.

I love the idea of modifying the actual ECU rather than a piggyback controller but I want to be able to make the change myself at any time. For that reason, whatever solution I come up with is very likely going to have the tweakability of the SS box.

--Steve

 

damn

glad it was discovered BEFORE someone tried it.... i guess thas why the maxflow is labelled a bypass/ blowoff valve then..

keep in mind, you can change the in. of vac. needed to close the vent though....
(im set at 4in. ± currently)

is there NO other option??? I was under the impresion (maybe worng again...) that you could opt for the maxflow bypass (only) valve, which will quiet the system up considerably.... (per a vortech rep).... but at what cost in performance??


what type of BOV does the ATi use???

does it not vent ?

 

Maybe its just me, I don't understand having my ECU perfectly dialed in and then having a piggy back unit on top of that? It seems like you are asking for trouble. The limited flash is nice for guys that want to increase the rev limiter and open the T/B more but the timing and fuel is the primary benefit of the regular flash. (When you had your L flash done, was the regular flash an option? I'm wondering if they solved the problem with the ss box?)

I campare the SS box to the J&S Safegaurd which several people have purcahsed and ditched becasue they felt it caused dead spots throughout the powerband. Since the vortech guys haven't run their car without the SS box they don't know what it is like otherwise. It is my understanding that the r4 software helps with this problem but is not perfect.

Obviously if you are convinced that no one can dial in your ECU perfectly (without physically touching your car) than I will not try to tell you otherwise. All I can say is Techno Square has done thousands of ECU's and it has worked perfectly for those that have tried it. Granted you may need to send it in a couple times (after dynoing using an A/F but that is it). If you decide to run 100 octane it wont make a difference, or decide to run in hot or cold weather. The ecu adjusts for that kind of stuff. Can you fine tune this more, yes but to me on a car like yours (and mine) this is a little overkill IMO. If this is what you want to be able to do, I think you bought the wrong car and at the very least have started in the wrong direction... This car is too new and parts like those aren't designed for 4 door sedans. I would look into the mercedes E55, audi s4, audi s6, BMW m5. These cars are designed with extreme performance in mind and there are many tuners (probably locally) where your desires can be fullfilled. Granted they are little more expensive but after you are done with your potential complete makeover, you may have been able to buy anyone of them. I'm not sure what mods you have but I'm guessing you are close to $45K total (cost of car, plus mods, plus install and tuning). Add another $15K for turbo kit, install, gauges, fuel, cooling system and tuning. Then if you decide to build the engine, tranny... add another $12K. Up to $72K now... Maybe new light weight wheels and 6 piston brakes for all that speed, add $8K, these other cars don't seem so out of reach plus you have a 4 warranty.

If you are looking at other cars in the G's/Z's price range (and don't care what your car looks like) consider the evo or STI. They have 4 doors and AWD.