Mystery exhaust smoke? Need your help!
09-29-2004, 09:51 PM
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Mystery exhaust smoke? Need your help!
So after the 1st time this happened (see my previous post about smoke out of the exhaust), I had my compression checked and everything inspected. Compression was a steady 175 and no oil was found anywhere on a general perimeter check of the engine bay. The smoke mysteriously disappeared.
I drove the car for about 1-2 weeks now and it came back. There is a peculiar smell, which I initially mistakenly took for the test-pipe smell I was used to. After I pulled into a gas station I saw small trails of white smoke coming out of the exhausts. I rev'd to 3k rpm and after letting go of the gas, about 1-2 seconds later, small clouds came out.
Very weird. Showed this to my shop and they can't see anything wrong with the car! There are no other symptoms or weird noises or loss of boost. I have followed Gurgen's advice which was to reconnect the PCV valve to the stock location, but ironically mine was already at that location to begin with! My passenger-side intake tube has a rubber cap on it.
The advice my shop gave me is to simply drive the car around and live with it for now, see what happens. I'd prefer to have a perfectly-running car with explanations for everything such as this. I am counting on you guys to try and come up with something that would help me, because apparently my shop can't at this time. They don't even know where to start. Could it maybe be coolant or something ? How would I check ?
I'm crossing my fingers that one of the mechanical-Guru's will chime in with something helpful! Please?
I drove the car for about 1-2 weeks now and it came back. There is a peculiar smell, which I initially mistakenly took for the test-pipe smell I was used to. After I pulled into a gas station I saw small trails of white smoke coming out of the exhausts. I rev'd to 3k rpm and after letting go of the gas, about 1-2 seconds later, small clouds came out.
Very weird. Showed this to my shop and they can't see anything wrong with the car! There are no other symptoms or weird noises or loss of boost. I have followed Gurgen's advice which was to reconnect the PCV valve to the stock location, but ironically mine was already at that location to begin with! My passenger-side intake tube has a rubber cap on it.
The advice my shop gave me is to simply drive the car around and live with it for now, see what happens. I'd prefer to have a perfectly-running car with explanations for everything such as this. I am counting on you guys to try and come up with something that would help me, because apparently my shop can't at this time. They don't even know where to start. Could it maybe be coolant or something ? How would I check ?
I'm crossing my fingers that one of the mechanical-Guru's will chime in with something helpful! Please?
09-30-2004, 12:04 AM
#4
if it happens when you just rev the engine and your not boosting making power... than the chance that its just rich smoke is next to nothing unless the car was far out of tune.
if your confident that you didnt melt/warp any of your pistons ring lands, then I would first suspect the turbochargers for bad seals (nothing you can really do but wait for them to get worse then rebuild or replace the turbos) or too much oil pressure to the turbos.
when i first built my civic motor and fired it up a few months ago when driving it i would get a small cloud of oil after boosting hard then when i let off the gas on decel i would get smoke... i took out the oil feed fitting in the block and welded it shut and drilled a smaller hole and never saw the problem again.
otherwise... my Z moves a little oil out the exhaust in extremely intermintent conditions. there have been 3 different occasions now that i have been boosting hard racing someone, and of course since they are always behind me I can see their headlights lighting up my exhaust and i seen a little smoke in there a couple times. never has it been replicatable... one of the times it happen was the other night when i was racing a M3... after we raced i went into a well lit intersection and abused the car for a minute couldnt get it to smoke.
there is also a video of me racing a DSM and when we first take off there is a very very small poof right when i nail it and then thats it for the rest of the run there is nothing there.
i suspect my oil feed to the turbos somewhat since i did them myself cause i didnt like the greddy lines... but its just so inconsistent and rare that its hard to figure it out.
i might have damaged a piston or two... i doubt it but i will know for sure in a couple weeks when i take it all out and look at everything... but i think its just something minor. or maybe i washed the motor running it so rich all the time and put some wear on the rings and hone. we will see soon what a VQ35DE looks like on the inside after over 12,000 miles of hardcore abuse making big power.
the way the pcv oil enters the intake plenum is kinda wierd to me how it has that little catch area where it comes in and i was thinking that perhaps it builds up in there and every now and then it just shifts over just right and that oil enters in the runners and you get the smoke?
i dunno yet, ill let you know if i figure anything out.
if your confident that you didnt melt/warp any of your pistons ring lands, then I would first suspect the turbochargers for bad seals (nothing you can really do but wait for them to get worse then rebuild or replace the turbos) or too much oil pressure to the turbos.
when i first built my civic motor and fired it up a few months ago when driving it i would get a small cloud of oil after boosting hard then when i let off the gas on decel i would get smoke... i took out the oil feed fitting in the block and welded it shut and drilled a smaller hole and never saw the problem again.
otherwise... my Z moves a little oil out the exhaust in extremely intermintent conditions. there have been 3 different occasions now that i have been boosting hard racing someone, and of course since they are always behind me I can see their headlights lighting up my exhaust and i seen a little smoke in there a couple times. never has it been replicatable... one of the times it happen was the other night when i was racing a M3... after we raced i went into a well lit intersection and abused the car for a minute couldnt get it to smoke.
there is also a video of me racing a DSM and when we first take off there is a very very small poof right when i nail it and then thats it for the rest of the run there is nothing there.
i suspect my oil feed to the turbos somewhat since i did them myself cause i didnt like the greddy lines... but its just so inconsistent and rare that its hard to figure it out.
i might have damaged a piston or two... i doubt it but i will know for sure in a couple weeks when i take it all out and look at everything... but i think its just something minor. or maybe i washed the motor running it so rich all the time and put some wear on the rings and hone. we will see soon what a VQ35DE looks like on the inside after over 12,000 miles of hardcore abuse making big power.
the way the pcv oil enters the intake plenum is kinda wierd to me how it has that little catch area where it comes in and i was thinking that perhaps it builds up in there and every now and then it just shifts over just right and that oil enters in the runners and you get the smoke?
i dunno yet, ill let you know if i figure anything out.
Last edited by phunk; 09-30-2004 at 12:08 AM.
09-30-2004, 12:41 AM
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Originally posted by phunk
if it happens when you just rev the engine and your not boosting making power... than the chance that its just rich smoke is next to nothing unless the car was far out of tune.
if your confident that you didnt melt/warp any of your pistons ring lands, then I would first suspect the turbochargers for bad seals (nothing you can really do but wait for them to get worse then rebuild or replace the turbos) or too much oil pressure to the turbos.
when i first built my civic motor and fired it up a few months ago when driving it i would get a small cloud of oil after boosting hard then when i let off the gas on decel i would get smoke... i took out the oil feed fitting in the block and welded it shut and drilled a smaller hole and never saw the problem again.
otherwise... my Z moves a little oil out the exhaust in extremely intermintent conditions. there have been 3 different occasions now that i have been boosting hard racing someone, and of course since they are always behind me I can see their headlights lighting up my exhaust and i seen a little smoke in there a couple times. never has it been replicatable... one of the times it happen was the other night when i was racing a M3... after we raced i went into a well lit intersection and abused the car for a minute couldnt get it to smoke.
there is also a video of me racing a DSM and when we first take off there is a very very small poof right when i nail it and then thats it for the rest of the run there is nothing there.
i suspect my oil feed to the turbos somewhat since i did them myself cause i didnt like the greddy lines... but its just so inconsistent and rare that its hard to figure it out.
i might have damaged a piston or two... i doubt it but i will know for sure in a couple weeks when i take it all out and look at everything... but i think its just something minor. or maybe i washed the motor running it so rich all the time and put some wear on the rings and hone. we will see soon what a VQ35DE looks like on the inside after over 12,000 miles of hardcore abuse making big power.
the way the pcv oil enters the intake plenum is kinda wierd to me how it has that little catch area where it comes in and i was thinking that perhaps it builds up in there and every now and then it just shifts over just right and that oil enters in the runners and you get the smoke?
i dunno yet, ill let you know if i figure anything out.
if it happens when you just rev the engine and your not boosting making power... than the chance that its just rich smoke is next to nothing unless the car was far out of tune.
if your confident that you didnt melt/warp any of your pistons ring lands, then I would first suspect the turbochargers for bad seals (nothing you can really do but wait for them to get worse then rebuild or replace the turbos) or too much oil pressure to the turbos.
when i first built my civic motor and fired it up a few months ago when driving it i would get a small cloud of oil after boosting hard then when i let off the gas on decel i would get smoke... i took out the oil feed fitting in the block and welded it shut and drilled a smaller hole and never saw the problem again.
otherwise... my Z moves a little oil out the exhaust in extremely intermintent conditions. there have been 3 different occasions now that i have been boosting hard racing someone, and of course since they are always behind me I can see their headlights lighting up my exhaust and i seen a little smoke in there a couple times. never has it been replicatable... one of the times it happen was the other night when i was racing a M3... after we raced i went into a well lit intersection and abused the car for a minute couldnt get it to smoke.
there is also a video of me racing a DSM and when we first take off there is a very very small poof right when i nail it and then thats it for the rest of the run there is nothing there.
i suspect my oil feed to the turbos somewhat since i did them myself cause i didnt like the greddy lines... but its just so inconsistent and rare that its hard to figure it out.
i might have damaged a piston or two... i doubt it but i will know for sure in a couple weeks when i take it all out and look at everything... but i think its just something minor. or maybe i washed the motor running it so rich all the time and put some wear on the rings and hone. we will see soon what a VQ35DE looks like on the inside after over 12,000 miles of hardcore abuse making big power.
the way the pcv oil enters the intake plenum is kinda wierd to me how it has that little catch area where it comes in and i was thinking that perhaps it builds up in there and every now and then it just shifts over just right and that oil enters in the runners and you get the smoke?
i dunno yet, ill let you know if i figure anything out.
09-30-2004, 07:45 AM
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Originally posted by phunk
im not sure... whoever has been hosting my other videos for me might be able to do it... the supra one and the bike racing one... i dunno otherwise.
im not sure... whoever has been hosting my other videos for me might be able to do it... the supra one and the bike racing one... i dunno otherwise.
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09-30-2004, 11:14 AM
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My shop reconnected the PCV hoses back as to the PE instructions, OPPOSITE of Gurgen's suggestions. I'm gonna drive it around like that for a while and see if I still get smoke.
09-30-2004, 12:28 PM
#12
Originally posted by slay2k
My shop reconnected the PCV hoses back as to the PE instructions, OPPOSITE of Gurgen's suggestions. I'm gonna drive it around like that for a while and see if I still get smoke.
My shop reconnected the PCV hoses back as to the PE instructions, OPPOSITE of Gurgen's suggestions. I'm gonna drive it around like that for a while and see if I still get smoke.
Slay,
OOOOMMMGGG! These were my worst fears... This is PRECISELY , and i mean PRECISELY what my problem was a couple of weeks before my engine went.... And I was connected (the PCV) as per PE's instruction, and went back to stock... no change on the smoke situation.... BTW... as you may have read from MY smoke issue thread, my compression was between 185 and 200.
The new theory of my engine failure is that the smoke was an indication of a damaged piston, between the two rings (compression and the oil ring), which after a little bit of driving, disintegrated into pieces... The smoke just cannot be coincidental, it was symtomatic of a problem... It only takes one run/overboost event to do the damage... not necessarily a continuous pounding.... I remember you telling us tat you did a 12psi full throttle run (maybe eve through a couple of gears) by accident the first time you drove the car....
Also, he is NOT running rich, I guarantee you. The smoke is white/greyish, that is oil burning. Too rich a mixture would result in a BLACK smoke.....
I will go out on a limb here and say that a failure is very likely imminent. I really hate to say it... If you were planning to do the engine... do it NOW. You will save the block (and about $2000) and know what the problem was. Not saying that my prediction is a certainty of course... but just look at the uncanny similarity.... Of course, the smoke could be a bad seal, and that could have been the case on my car as well, and that the failure was coincidence. It's up to the reader I guess to judge for themselves I suppose. I truly don't know what happened with my car until I take the engien apart.
Here is a quote from my original thread:
"Ok, here is the problem. If I do a run (full or even partial boost) or just rev the car while at rest (idling in N), then 3-5 seconds later whitish/greyish/blueish smoke begins to come out of the tailpipe."
09-30-2004, 12:40 PM
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Correct me if I'm wrong, Gurgen, but you were seeing *lots* of smoke--i.e. enough that people were flagging you down and telling you that your car was on fire. Correct?
I've been under the impression that slay's smoke is just an occasional whisp.
--Steve
I've been under the impression that slay's smoke is just an occasional whisp.
--Steve
09-30-2004, 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by gurgenpb01
Slay,
OOOOMMMGGG! These were my worst fears... This is PRECISELY , and i mean PRECISELY what my problem was a couple of weeks before my engine went.... And I was connected (the PCV) as per PE's instruction, and went back to stock... no change on the smoke situation.... BTW... as you may have read from MY smoke issue thread, my compression was between 185 and 200.
The new theory of my engine failure is that the smoke was an indication of a damaged piston, between the two rings (compression and the oil ring), which after a little bit of driving, disintegrated into pieces... The smoke just cannot be coincidental, it was symtomatic of a problem... It only takes one run/overboost event to do the damage... not necessarily a continuous pounding.... I remember you telling us tat you did a 12psi full throttle run (maybe eve through a couple of gears) by accident the first time you drove the car....
Also, he is NOT running rich, I guarantee you. The smoke is white/greyish, that is oil burning. Too rich a mixture would result in a BLACK smoke.....
I will go out on a limb here and say that a failure is very likely imminent. I really hate to say it... If you were planning to do the engine... do it NOW. You will save the block (and about $2000) and know what the problem was. Not saying that my prediction is a certainty of course... but just look at the uncanny similarity.... Of course, the smoke could be a bad seal, and that could have been the case on my car as well, and that the failure was coincidence. It's up to the reader I guess to judge for themselves I suppose. I truly don't know what happened with my car until I take the engien apart.
Here is a quote from my original thread:
"Ok, here is the problem. If I do a run (full or even partial boost) or just rev the car while at rest (idling in N), then 3-5 seconds later whitish/greyish/blueish smoke begins to come out of the tailpipe."
Slay,
OOOOMMMGGG! These were my worst fears... This is PRECISELY , and i mean PRECISELY what my problem was a couple of weeks before my engine went.... And I was connected (the PCV) as per PE's instruction, and went back to stock... no change on the smoke situation.... BTW... as you may have read from MY smoke issue thread, my compression was between 185 and 200.
The new theory of my engine failure is that the smoke was an indication of a damaged piston, between the two rings (compression and the oil ring), which after a little bit of driving, disintegrated into pieces... The smoke just cannot be coincidental, it was symtomatic of a problem... It only takes one run/overboost event to do the damage... not necessarily a continuous pounding.... I remember you telling us tat you did a 12psi full throttle run (maybe eve through a couple of gears) by accident the first time you drove the car....
Also, he is NOT running rich, I guarantee you. The smoke is white/greyish, that is oil burning. Too rich a mixture would result in a BLACK smoke.....
I will go out on a limb here and say that a failure is very likely imminent. I really hate to say it... If you were planning to do the engine... do it NOW. You will save the block (and about $2000) and know what the problem was. Not saying that my prediction is a certainty of course... but just look at the uncanny similarity.... Of course, the smoke could be a bad seal, and that could have been the case on my car as well, and that the failure was coincidence. It's up to the reader I guess to judge for themselves I suppose. I truly don't know what happened with my car until I take the engien apart.
Here is a quote from my original thread:
"Ok, here is the problem. If I do a run (full or even partial boost) or just rev the car while at rest (idling in N), then 3-5 seconds later whitish/greyish/blueish smoke begins to come out of the tailpipe."
Anyway, there are slight differences between your case and mine. In my case the smoke came and went away for several weeks, and when it did come it wasn't so heavy that people were flagging me down. Also, I only have white/gray smoke. There is no bluish to it at all.
With regards to the 12psi run it wasn't full throttle. As soon as my tires started losing grip (around 12psi) I let off. There was no imminent damage. And the white smoke problem only started occurring 2 months from that point.
Anyway I definitely appreciate your reply and your concern for my situation. There are definitely some similarities. However I can't afford to build the engine right now, especially on an educated guess. I would need proof before I would actually act on it. Unfortunately I know that this proof might mean a blown engine, but hopefully it won't come to that.
I'm going to pick the car up and drive it around. The smoke as of right now is gone, according to the shop, just like last time. If it was a damaged piston why would the smoke come and go ?
Alright, imma go pick my car up now. Maybe in the meantime we can think of a way to test your theory ?
09-30-2004, 01:27 PM
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The bottom line is that smoke has to come from somewhere. It's either oil (which you can measure by checking oil levels), coolant (which you can measure by checking coolant levels), or fuel (which you can measure by checking fuel levels).
--Steve
--Steve
09-30-2004, 01:28 PM
#17
Originally posted by zimbo
Correct me if I'm wrong, Gurgen, but you were seeing *lots* of smoke--i.e. enough that people were flagging you down and telling you that your car was on fire. Correct?
I've been under the impression that slay's smoke is just an occasional whisp.
--Steve
Correct me if I'm wrong, Gurgen, but you were seeing *lots* of smoke--i.e. enough that people were flagging you down and telling you that your car was on fire. Correct?
I've been under the impression that slay's smoke is just an occasional whisp.
--Steve
Gurgen
09-30-2004, 01:38 PM
#19
Slay
Sorry to be direct bro, it just struck me as uncanny. My car would not always smoke if it was after a run (like during the dyno day wth 15 pairs of eyes watching the car from behind... saw no smoke at all during or after a run). But it did always smoke after a free rev, ever so slightly....
I sure am not saying do the engine internals right now, only if you were planning to do it anyway....
One other thing... you are saying that the smoke comes and goes? Does it come and go if you just free rev in neutral (i.e. not after an actual run). I mean.. if you just sit there and repeat the free rev 5-10 times in a row... it won't smoke every time?
You KNOW that I wish you the best here... my comments were meant to emphasize the similarity in the way the car smokes.. a few seconds after you free rev it... that's prett specific. It may have done it before, and I just did not notice it until it got too bad... who knows...
Gurgen
Sorry to be direct bro, it just struck me as uncanny. My car would not always smoke if it was after a run (like during the dyno day wth 15 pairs of eyes watching the car from behind... saw no smoke at all during or after a run). But it did always smoke after a free rev, ever so slightly....
I sure am not saying do the engine internals right now, only if you were planning to do it anyway....
One other thing... you are saying that the smoke comes and goes? Does it come and go if you just free rev in neutral (i.e. not after an actual run). I mean.. if you just sit there and repeat the free rev 5-10 times in a row... it won't smoke every time?
You KNOW that I wish you the best here... my comments were meant to emphasize the similarity in the way the car smokes.. a few seconds after you free rev it... that's prett specific. It may have done it before, and I just did not notice it until it got too bad... who knows...
Gurgen
Originally posted by slay2k
lol Gurgen, thanks for the good news.
Anyway, there are slight differences between your case and mine. In my case the smoke came and went away for several weeks, and when it did come it wasn't so heavy that people were flagging me down. Also, I only have white/gray smoke. There is no bluish to it at all.
With regards to the 12psi run it wasn't full throttle. As soon as my tires started losing grip (around 12psi) I let off. There was no imminent damage. And the white smoke problem only started occurring 2 months from that point.
Anyway I definitely appreciate your reply and your concern for my situation. There are definitely some similarities. However I can't afford to build the engine right now, especially on an educated guess. I would need proof before I would actually act on it. Unfortunately I know that this proof might mean a blown engine, but hopefully it won't come to that.
I'm going to pick the car up and drive it around. The smoke as of right now is gone, according to the shop, just like last time. If it was a damaged piston why would the smoke come and go ?
Alright, imma go pick my car up now. Maybe in the meantime we can think of a way to test your theory ?
lol Gurgen, thanks for the good news.
Anyway, there are slight differences between your case and mine. In my case the smoke came and went away for several weeks, and when it did come it wasn't so heavy that people were flagging me down. Also, I only have white/gray smoke. There is no bluish to it at all.
With regards to the 12psi run it wasn't full throttle. As soon as my tires started losing grip (around 12psi) I let off. There was no imminent damage. And the white smoke problem only started occurring 2 months from that point.
Anyway I definitely appreciate your reply and your concern for my situation. There are definitely some similarities. However I can't afford to build the engine right now, especially on an educated guess. I would need proof before I would actually act on it. Unfortunately I know that this proof might mean a blown engine, but hopefully it won't come to that.
I'm going to pick the car up and drive it around. The smoke as of right now is gone, according to the shop, just like last time. If it was a damaged piston why would the smoke come and go ?
Alright, imma go pick my car up now. Maybe in the meantime we can think of a way to test your theory ?
09-30-2004, 03:02 PM
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Gurgen,
No problem about directness, I wasn't mad at ya ;]
Anyway, what I meant with regards to coming and going is that... after the 1st time this happened... it went away COMPLETELY for like 1-2 weeks. The day I picked it up from the shop the 1st time, I remember free-revving it to like 6k multiple times, and no smoke would come out AT ALL.
Today when I picked it up there was some smoke but it smelled differently, and the shop assured me it was just condensation. It was raining and kinda cold today, so I believe that.
I will free-rev it again tomorrow or when the weather is warmer. Then we'll see if it still smokes. At this time the PCV connection is back to PE instructions.
ETX: With regards to coolant, I asked that question and the shop informed me that's not it. He said coolant has a definitive sweet smell that smells nothing like this.
Any other suggestions ?
No problem about directness, I wasn't mad at ya ;]
Anyway, what I meant with regards to coming and going is that... after the 1st time this happened... it went away COMPLETELY for like 1-2 weeks. The day I picked it up from the shop the 1st time, I remember free-revving it to like 6k multiple times, and no smoke would come out AT ALL.
Today when I picked it up there was some smoke but it smelled differently, and the shop assured me it was just condensation. It was raining and kinda cold today, so I believe that.
I will free-rev it again tomorrow or when the weather is warmer. Then we'll see if it still smokes. At this time the PCV connection is back to PE instructions.
ETX: With regards to coolant, I asked that question and the shop informed me that's not it. He said coolant has a definitive sweet smell that smells nothing like this.
Any other suggestions ?