I have been looking at the SGP Racing Ultimate short block and it costs $3900 + $1000 core.

Specs:
Block oil passages cleaned
Block redecked
Block Bored and Honed using a Torque Plate
Crank balanced
Crank journals polished
New Main and Rod bearings w/ceramic coating
Pauter Rods
ARP Rod Bolts
CP Pistons .020 over(8.5:1 or 11.5:1)
Ceramic coating on Pistons
ARP Main Studs

The alternative is buying Pauter rods and forged pistons and having them installed in the stock block. The rods and pistons are roughly $2000 + labor charges.

My question is how much would the labor cost? Would it be worth the extra money for the SGP Racing Ultimate short block?

I will be installing the APS TT kit with a goal of 550-600rwhp.

 

My ultimate short block from SGP will be done next week . You probably can find the machine work and labor cheaper , but add in the coating and APR rod and main studs . It just adds up and why not get it done all at once and by a well known company . Its worth it to me.....my .02

 

You could find the Pauter Rods and forged pistons for a bit under 2K...

I thought the Pauter rods came with Rod Bolts, so I don't believe the extra cash for ARP bolts is required.

ARP Main and Head studs can be found for around $300 (this seems to be a must, and the head studs aren't included in this package).

The only block work that is probably a must is having it bored .020 to ensure a perfect mate to the new pistons, I don't see a big need for the other stuff on a basically brand new motor +/- 15k-35k miles...

We were considering the SGP package just so our down time on the motor build up would be less, but they don't have any core's available for a few months... When we really got to thinking about this option a few things became apparent, If you're going to take your motor out, and then need to ship it to SGP (which is quoting three (3) weeks to get the work done) a local performance shop would probably be better off boring out the block... This way you could keep tabs on the work, and it would be easier to transport your motor (less cost) and the down time would be cut in half. In addition, there have been several statements about SGP getting back several damage motors from core exchanges... If your motor is in perfect shape, do you really want to slap down 4 big ones for a potentially, motor that was damaged?

I'm still in the discovery phase, and I welcome more input on this topic as these observations are just my findings to date.

 

Yes the Pauter rods do come with rod bolts but the ARP studs are for the heads and the mains (holds up the crank).

 

Yes but why take it somewhere that is not familiar with this type of motor? We have done roughly 12 motor builds now and are in the process of doing 8 more as I type. So we have more experience then anyone else I know on the VQ35 motors.
Also remember our motor builds include things like the use of a torque plate, ceramic coated bearings, line honing the main journals, complete balancing of the rotating assembly, Polishing of the crank journals, etc... You take it to Joe Blow's Machine shop down on the corner and they are just going to throw it in the honing machine and assemble it....if that

Just my $.02

 

Kyle,

How nice of you to basically insult every machine shop in the country, Joe Blow's...? I was hoping to get a more meaningful response...

Any reputal machine shop can bore a motor and hone main journals, nothing special here...

The question is, does ceramic coated bearings, a .020 bore, line honing the main journals, complete balancing of the rotating assembly, and polishing of the crank journals worth 2+ thousand dollars and three week down time...?

Also, at the end of the day, what's the advantage? Why would someone want to trade their perfectly good motor for a potentially damaged core?

I'm not trying to be combative, just looking to gain a better understanding...

 

Well I guess knowing that the motor is done at a place that has experience in what bearing clearances work for F/I cars and what piston to wall clearance works best is worth the extra money to most. I am not saying that *all* machine shops are crappy but I am saying that any reputable machine shop with the proper tools for machining is going to cost money in the end. If the job is done right it will not be cheap...cheap and a good engine build do not go together . Trust me...I have repaired many a motor that was done cheap the first time and it just cost the customer twice as much in the end to get it fixed .

All the cores that we use are tested before we use them. I actually bought a core out of a burned G35 that I paid good money for and I can not use it because it has a hairline crack in one of the cylinders that we caught on a sonic test. I do not just use any motor I can find. I check them out before they can become useable cores. Ask Booger....I had a core for him that I did not feel would clean up properly for his standard pistons. So I went out and bought another core within 2 days. Once we rebuild the motor they are as good if not better then the motor I get back since they have 0 miles on them .

Obviously if any of my customers feel better using their motor for the rebuild we can do that too.

 

Is it possible to buy a brand new core thru Nissan or is that not cost effective?

 

Kyle,

Thanks for the quick response.

I agree with most of what you've stated, fair enough.

I've heard mixed reviews on the need to use a torque plate, and could you provide more detail on the ceramic coated bearings, the balancing of the rotating assembly, and the polishing of the crank journals...

What type of gains would this offer over someone just performing the .020 bore, adding forged rods & pistons, and head/main studs...?

 

Yes you can buy a core from Nissan . I cant remember off hand what it cost [$1,300 maybe...cant remember ]

 

yes you can get a BARE BLOCK from nissan for around $1300.

Keep in mind there are other things you will need then. You will need a crankshaft. You will need oil squirters and hardware because these have to be installed before the rotating assembly.

Shipping the motor out can be worth it but at the same time of course any GOOD local machine shop can do it for you. I own a performance shop and we do not have inhouse machining, not that type anyway. The machine shop I use is very expensive and that cost has to be transferred to the customer.

Bearing clearances and ring gaps and piston to wall clearance is no mystery tho, you can get the information you need from the manufacturers. There are several things to consider in the decision making with each way having its trade offs. But selecting these specs is not really difficult as long as you are not foolish. Too tight of a ring gap and your rings are going to butt up. Too little piston to wall clearance and can range from scuffing the hone and pistons and damaging the rings all the way to seizing your engine.

Higher end machine shops, such as the one I use... will make a torque plate for no cost since they are able to reuse it every other time they work on the same engine. Balancing and polishing and all that stuff is standard issue with any quality machinist that cares about the product he returns to you.

I would say that if you are not going to have a shop build the car for you... and you really think you can build it yourself... then if there is a machinist that you KNOW is high quality, then you can handle it all yourself. Shipping an engine is a hassle and can be high risk and if something DOES happen to it, your about to run into mega down time as you wait for the claim to go thru.

In the end your gonna spend an assload of money... so just go what route makes you more comfortable. Do not be foolish and make blind decisions... and dont trust anyone without good reason to. MOST machine shops do not care about you or your engine... you need to make sure the one you go to has a passion for their product. Typically you want to find a machine shop that is popular with all the local racers, and you can call all the performance shops in your area and ask who they use if they will tell you.

 

Kyle,
do your offer any thing for the VQ30DEs? Pretty munch any package deals? THANKS

 

TTT

 

Every good machine shop should use a torque plate. If they have not done work on a VQ35 block they will have to get one made. I think they are only about $375 to get made. You can get your parts Ceramic coated at lots of places. There is a place called Polydyne Coating that will do it for you. Kyle is right, if you want it done right you will have to pay the money. Also if you go to a good machine shop they should be able to do a sonic test on the block.

 

Yeah you're right.

Especially if I can get some type of guarantee from the shop that builds it. I would much prefer to get SGP Racing to build it up but its too much of a hassle especially since I live in Canada.