Can't decide: APS or SVR; need opinions
03-04-2006, 12:36 PM
#41
Originally Posted by chimmike
I love that pic of measuring the injen diameter. If you look, they're not even measuring it across the median of the pipe. Freakin douche. I know it's small, but you're talking an extra 1/4 inch there that isn't being measured.
Let me apologize for the misleading picture. It is difficult to hold the exhaust, tape measure and snap a pic at the same time. Regardless of what you think about the way I measured it, it is clear that it is less than 2"
as for the 3.5" test pipes going to 3" exhaust, you always want it in the REVERSE, never go from big to small in turbo exhaust, as it disrupts the flow/velocity.
If anything, you'd want 3" near the turbo and 3.5" after that, so as to create a scavenging effect with the velocity.
This is incorrect. The exhaust gases cool as they move towards the tail pipe. The gases get denser as they cool down, this is why would want a large to small taper. The large to smaller taper would keep the gasses moving much faster than if you go from smaller to larger taper
zivman..................i thought you had the APS ST kit.
bah either way, they prolly don't pay you enough for sucking their ***** like you do.
You really sound like you are well informed about me.
Let me apologize for the misleading picture. It is difficult to hold the exhaust, tape measure and snap a pic at the same time. Regardless of what you think about the way I measured it, it is clear that it is less than 2"
as for the 3.5" test pipes going to 3" exhaust, you always want it in the REVERSE, never go from big to small in turbo exhaust, as it disrupts the flow/velocity.
If anything, you'd want 3" near the turbo and 3.5" after that, so as to create a scavenging effect with the velocity.
This is incorrect. The exhaust gases cool as they move towards the tail pipe. The gases get denser as they cool down, this is why would want a large to small taper. The large to smaller taper would keep the gasses moving much faster than if you go from smaller to larger taper
zivman..................i thought you had the APS ST kit.
bah either way, they prolly don't pay you enough for sucking their ***** like you do.
You really sound like you are well informed about me.
Originally Posted by Gman2004
I think that is something to be proud of. Going from a smaller diameter piping to a bigger usually will result in a loss of tq not a gain. I think the X-Pipe is doing something here and those mufflers.....watch the video Scott posted.
I think any gain is something to be proud of, just that comparing to the injen isn't really a good base to make a comparison off of.
Maximumsportz just dynoed his APS TT with the APS 3.5" tp's and 3" exhaust and got 412 rwhp and 368 rwtq @ 9.5psi SAE on a dynojet. I know you really can't compare two different tt turbo set ups, but most APS TT owners with exhaust smaller than the 3" and 3.5" tp's are getting higher tq numbers.
I think any gain is something to be proud of, just that comparing to the injen isn't really a good base to make a comparison off of.
Maximumsportz just dynoed his APS TT with the APS 3.5" tp's and 3" exhaust and got 412 rwhp and 368 rwtq @ 9.5psi SAE on a dynojet. I know you really can't compare two different tt turbo set ups, but most APS TT owners with exhaust smaller than the 3" and 3.5" tp's are getting higher tq numbers.
Originally Posted by overZealous1
ok, zivman, i did get you mixed up with someone else with a similar name that tends to **** alot of people off.
the fact still remains, torque on most all other dyno tests drops going to a larger exhaust. this was an 11-12% increase going larger. you may like the aps since you have it, but these gains are very unusual and far surpassed everyones predictions and the benefits are now pretty hard to deny. this style X pipe is designed to help torque, and thats exactly what it did, in pretty huge fashion.
hell ya, i'm getting dizzy spinning in circles patting my own back.
the fact still remains, torque on most all other dyno tests drops going to a larger exhaust. this was an 11-12% increase going larger. you may like the aps since you have it, but these gains are very unusual and far surpassed everyones predictions and the benefits are now pretty hard to deny. this style X pipe is designed to help torque, and thats exactly what it did, in pretty huge fashion.
hell ya, i'm getting dizzy spinning in circles patting my own back.
03-04-2006, 06:09 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by Zivman
Chris' car is not even comparable. His limitation is the stock block. Japtrix could have tuned him to whatever HP/TQ they wanted to. They chose to tune to those numbers.
03-04-2006, 06:33 PM
#43
Originally Posted by Vq.turbo.DremZ
Lost the other SVR thread, but any updates on your 2.5 setup? i.e. price, release date, etc.
03-04-2006, 06:43 PM
#44
Originally Posted by Gman2004
I hear what you are saying, but I am not trying to compare Chris' car to the VRT car. What I am comparing is how Chirs' tq numbers or lower than most other APS TT owners with out the 3.5" tp's and 3" exhaust and how the VRT car increase tq with Scott's exhaust.
will await more.
03-04-2006, 08:45 PM
#45
Originally Posted by Gman2004
I hear what you are saying, but I am not trying to compare Chris' car to the VRT car. What I am comparing is how Chirs' tq numbers or lower than most other APS TT owners with out the 3.5" tp's and 3" exhaust and how the VRT car increase tq with Scott's exhaust.
03-05-2006, 03:07 AM
#46
Originally Posted by Zivman
Chris' car is not even comparable. His limitation is the stock block. Japtrix could have tuned him to whatever HP/TQ they wanted to. They chose to tune to those numbers.
I run the APS 2.5" on my setup. I think your setup looks great, just for a guy like Failsafe with an APS TT setup, being able to run larger diameter right after the turbos is going to be more beneficial, at least IMO, than your X-pipe will be.
I run the APS 2.5" on my setup. I think your setup looks great, just for a guy like Failsafe with an APS TT setup, being able to run larger diameter right after the turbos is going to be more beneficial, at least IMO, than your X-pipe will be.
believe me, i see the point you are trying to make. i don't feel that you know exactly the reason you are trying to make it though. i feel you have been told some info and are adlibbing from that point. i know exactly why aps did the larger test pipes. do you? i am not knocking aps at all, don't get me wrong. i will never try to knock another competitors product. i just feel this is a better system. just like everything else, better products come along. right now, this is the only 3" dual set up that has gone through on forum dynos where a decent exhaust was used to test against. if it isn't, prove me wrong. i am not just jumping into making parts for the fact of money. i build this stuff for my own car, and test it, then if i feel it is good, i now duplicate it for others to gain the benfits also. this exhaust will dominate in torque and hp curves and i will test it against any other one out there. if you find a taker, i will gladly let a third party test them.
this thread has been taking over by this discussion, any further technical issues can be done via private message.
03-05-2006, 07:11 AM
#48
Originally Posted by overZealous1
zivman, honestly now, i have willingly accepted and wanted my products to be dynoed by a 3rd party (and just happens to be jim wolf) to see the benefits i feel i have created. i will put my system up to anyones!! the larger dump tubes will not create the same thing as the X pipe. i gave you a chance to come up with documented info as i have done, again with someone else testing it. this sytem was not built for looks! i came up with the design first, then we ran it through a buffer to polish it, hahhaa.
believe me, i see the point you are trying to make. i don't feel that you know exactly the reason you are trying to make it though. i feel you have been told some info and are adlibbing from that point. i know exactly why aps did the larger test pipes. do you? i am not knocking aps at all, don't get me wrong. i will never try to knock another competitors product. i just feel this is a better system. just like everything else, better products come along. right now, this is the only 3" dual set up that has gone through on forum dynos where a decent exhaust was used to test against. if it isn't, prove me wrong. i am not just jumping into making parts for the fact of money. i build this stuff for my own car, and test it, then if i feel it is good, i now duplicate it for others to gain the benfits also. this exhaust will dominate in torque and hp curves and i will test it against any other one out there. if you find a taker, i will gladly let a third party test them.
this thread has been taking over by this discussion, any further technical issues can be done via private message.
believe me, i see the point you are trying to make. i don't feel that you know exactly the reason you are trying to make it though. i feel you have been told some info and are adlibbing from that point. i know exactly why aps did the larger test pipes. do you? i am not knocking aps at all, don't get me wrong. i will never try to knock another competitors product. i just feel this is a better system. just like everything else, better products come along. right now, this is the only 3" dual set up that has gone through on forum dynos where a decent exhaust was used to test against. if it isn't, prove me wrong. i am not just jumping into making parts for the fact of money. i build this stuff for my own car, and test it, then if i feel it is good, i now duplicate it for others to gain the benfits also. this exhaust will dominate in torque and hp curves and i will test it against any other one out there. if you find a taker, i will gladly let a third party test them.
this thread has been taking over by this discussion, any further technical issues can be done via private message.
I wasn't looking for any heated discussion. I wasn't out to prove any points. All I was saying is if I was Chris (failsafe) I would go with the APS setup. Not saying it is better, not saying yours is worse. Thanks for the oportunity to come up with documented info
I have nothing but good things to say about your setup. Again, it looks great and should provide awesome gains for those that run it.This was my original post in this thread:
Originally Posted by Zivman
I would get the APS setup because the test pipes APS offers allow the biggest diameter off the turbos, where it is most critical. I have no doubt, the SVR is a great esxhaust, just that it's smallest point is right were the dumps enter the exhaust itself.
Then you reply with this:
Originally Posted by overZealous1
ok, i have been holding back a little but i'm not going to sit here and listen to a guy that is 18-19 that doesn't even own a Z explain to me about cars.
and when it comes down to it, I totally agree with this statement:
Originally Posted by overZealous1
aps has it advantages and mine has it's advantages.
This thread was started with this question:
Originally Posted by failsafe306
Well, I was pretty much set on using the APS 3.5" test pipes with the SVR 3" exhaust, but was told I can't use the APS pipes with the exhaust. Problem is, I really want to use the APS test pipes, so I jumped the gun and ordered them already, but I have yet to order an exhaust. So, should I send back the APS pipes and run the SVR, or keep the APS pipes and just order APS 3" exhaust?
Cheers everyone
03-05-2006, 10:26 AM
#49
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Originally Posted by Zivman
You will notice, most of japtrix tuned APS setups seem to be lower than what we are used to seeing on APS TT setups from other shops. I dont' think the exhaust had much to do with his numbers as they tuned to the numbers.
03-07-2006, 05:27 AM
#51
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Originally Posted by Gman2004
I hear what you are saying, but I am not trying to compare Chris' car to the VRT car. What I am comparing is how Chirs' tq numbers or lower than most other APS TT owners with out the 3.5" tp's and 3" exhaust and how the VRT car increase tq with Scott's exhaust.
What you have to look at the increase on the VRT is how much boost also went up becuase of the bigger exhaust, we could see Chris' boost was around 2-3 psi higher than guys with 2.5 exhaust setup. Only way to compare would have been to have ran the car with the 2.5" setup and then with the 3" exhaust and I garantee you would have seen an increase in tq just becuase of the increase in boost.
03-07-2006, 07:12 AM
#52
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Originally Posted by westpak
Well you can't compare chris' numbers as his torque would have been way up there if we had left the boost alone as it was going to 12 psi so we dialed back the boost.
Originally Posted by westpak
What you have to look at the increase on the VRT is how much boost also
previous system-injen dual exhaust 14 psi 536hp and 626 torque
SVRTech 3" duals- @14 psi 554hp and 699tq!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
03-07-2006, 07:39 AM
#53
Originally Posted by Gman2004
but what about the other APS TT Z/G with out 3.5" tp's and 3" exhaust that are running the same psi as Chris, but have higher tq numbers. Obviously if you increase boost pressure you will increase whp and tq.
Look at Japtrix's other installs and you will see that Chris' numbers are inline with what Japtrix is tuning to. They are not tuning to the higher TQ numbers that other shops are - mustang dyno, dynojet, or whatever dyno.
Maybe I am missing something, but the VRT's car did not increase the boost pressure they just changed the exhaust and retuned at the same boost pressure.
Who knows what really went on during the dyno or tune. I would think they would set boost back to 14 to get a more apples to apples comparison. I look at the dyno chart and look at the big 'boob' anomaly and don't think much of the gains at that point. A more gradual and steady torque curve is what I would be looking for, not a relatively small blip on the dyno. They should plot the two curves together on the same chart to show over all gains. I would think there would be some decent gains beyond 4000 rpms as the torque doesn't appear to taper like it did with the previous injen setup. Those are the gains I would be looking for.
previous system-injen dual exhaust 14 psi 536hp and 626 torque
SVRTech 3" duals- @14 psi 554hp and 699tq!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Look at Japtrix's other installs and you will see that Chris' numbers are inline with what Japtrix is tuning to. They are not tuning to the higher TQ numbers that other shops are - mustang dyno, dynojet, or whatever dyno.
Maybe I am missing something, but the VRT's car did not increase the boost pressure they just changed the exhaust and retuned at the same boost pressure.
Who knows what really went on during the dyno or tune. I would think they would set boost back to 14 to get a more apples to apples comparison. I look at the dyno chart and look at the big 'boob' anomaly and don't think much of the gains at that point. A more gradual and steady torque curve is what I would be looking for, not a relatively small blip on the dyno. They should plot the two curves together on the same chart to show over all gains. I would think there would be some decent gains beyond 4000 rpms as the torque doesn't appear to taper like it did with the previous injen setup. Those are the gains I would be looking for.
previous system-injen dual exhaust 14 psi 536hp and 626 torque
SVRTech 3" duals- @14 psi 554hp and 699tq!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
03-07-2006, 07:39 AM
#54
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Originally Posted by Gman2004
but what about the other APS TT Z/G with out 3.5" tp's and 3" exhaust that are running the same psi as Chris, but have higher tq numbers. Obviously if you increase boost pressure you will increase whp and tq.
Maybe I am missing something, but the VRT's car did not increase the boost pressure they just changed the exhaust and retuned at the same boost pressure.
previous system-injen dual exhaust 14 psi 536hp and 626 torque
SVRTech 3" duals- @14 psi 554hp and 699tq!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe I am missing something, but the VRT's car did not increase the boost pressure they just changed the exhaust and retuned at the same boost pressure.
previous system-injen dual exhaust 14 psi 536hp and 626 torque
SVRTech 3" duals- @14 psi 554hp and 699tq!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
03-07-2006, 07:41 AM
#55
hey g-man, just to set the records straight, i was called about the dyno numbers and started posting before seeing the dyno chart. it looks like a boost spike sent the torque that high. they had to stop tuning on the car because of time. mike said at a little higher boost levels the torque went through the roof with this exhaust, but they need to get the boost spike out and tune alot more to do a good comparison. just wanting to be 100% fair. they don't show a/f inthe graph either, but jim wolf said they had alot more tuning to do to optimize the new exhaust.
one thing that is a huge noticeable improvement also though, is the fact of how much the exhaust flattened the torque and hp curves. the car has alot more torque and hp over the entire range right now. that is a common gain with the X pipe. if you dig up the old dyno in "project double down" you will see exactly what i am talking about.
so just need to wait for more dyno time to yank more power out of the current set up with the exhaust. nobody knows how much the boost spiked either. they figured only 1-2 psi, but who knows. my point being there are alot of veriables still left to figure out. about the only thing certain at this point is the flattening of the curves and that very slight increase in boost can mean huge numbers with this exhaust.
one thing that is a huge noticeable improvement also though, is the fact of how much the exhaust flattened the torque and hp curves. the car has alot more torque and hp over the entire range right now. that is a common gain with the X pipe. if you dig up the old dyno in "project double down" you will see exactly what i am talking about.
so just need to wait for more dyno time to yank more power out of the current set up with the exhaust. nobody knows how much the boost spiked either. they figured only 1-2 psi, but who knows. my point being there are alot of veriables still left to figure out. about the only thing certain at this point is the flattening of the curves and that very slight increase in boost can mean huge numbers with this exhaust.
Last edited by overZealous1; 03-07-2006 at 07:53 AM.
03-07-2006, 01:49 PM
#56
I went ahead and ordered an APS exhaust today. I got a good deal and couldn't turn it down.
Scott, I truly appreciate your fast responses to my MANY questions
If the APS doesn't turn out to be everything I want it to be, I'll sell it and try yours. Thanks again for everything.
Scott, I truly appreciate your fast responses to my MANY questions
If the APS doesn't turn out to be everything I want it to be, I'll sell it and try yours. Thanks again for everything.
03-27-2006, 02:08 PM
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I cant understand why everyone is jumping on Zivmans back on this. He has been nothing but polite and put forward valid points. Not once has he jumped on anyone. Overzealous, I think you are living upto your username perfectly, not exactly a good sales pitch, slamming the guy for questioning your products. And before you ask, im 29 and do have a TT car.