Injen CAI or Nismo
04-28-2006, 10:51 AM
#41
psychedelic one
To the original poster- I see that you are in California. I don't think that the Nismo CAI is CARB approved, or pending. Personally, I went with the AEM, but I too don't think there's a lot of difference between CAI's and gains.
04-28-2006, 10:54 AM
#42
psychedelic one
Sorry...I don't want to start the war over again. The difference between each CAI and gains. I definitely felts gains after adding the CAI. Whew!!!! Dodged another bullet.
04-28-2006, 11:51 AM
#43
Registered User
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: New York
Posts: 3,290
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I personally have the Injen SP1986, the butt dyno says it works. I agree that a metal tube is more susceptible to heat than plastic, but overall, I do believe that the CAI/Intakes in general DO produce a bit more hp.
04-28-2006, 01:09 PM
#44
Registered User
Originally Posted by Z MANIA
Sorry...I don't want to start the war over again. The difference between each CAI and gains. I definitely felts gains after adding the CAI. Whew!!!! Dodged another bullet.
Whether or not a car feels faster or not can be due to a whole bunch of variables including overall power distribution, engine sound, engine feel, etc. And that aspect isn't to be dimissed, either. We do all this stuff to our cars to make the driving experience more fun, whether through speed, handling, feel, sound....whatever.
Still, the scientific facts remain that there is no intake design that has been proven to be consistently better than stock given the inherent testing limits of something that claims to produce such a small power gain. It is simply impossible to test the claims of any intake manufacturer's power gains given the limits of the testing equipment and the inherent variability between car engines, fuel, tires, wheels, other mods, etc.
Similarly, no single intake manufacturer has yet been able to say with sound engineering principles where the stock design is deficient, and where their design overcomes this deficiency. Things like rate of rise of Mass Air Flow, peak mass air flow, rate of rise of Manifold Absolute Pressure, and the corrsponding responses of the ECU are never given by the manufacturer (if they have even been tested for). People want so badly to believe that their mods are doing something. Plenum mods, cat mods, headers will help engine breathing and will give you A FEW more hp on this motor, but I stand my ground on this intake thing. The scientific principles of engineering, the properly conducted test data just isn't there. And the anecdotal reports of people actually losing power are there.
Why am I going on about this somewhat trivial issue and being an "internet thug" according to some? It's not about the intake per se, but about the issue of analyzing ANY information that is presented to make sure it is based on sound and real principles, proper testing, and proper statistical analysis of data before presentation to the public. Obviously, most people don't have this knowledge, just like I know nothing whatsoever about how all the info on this website actually gets to, and is processed through my tiny lap top.
Last edited by Speedracer; 04-28-2006 at 01:15 PM.
04-28-2006, 01:21 PM
#45
Well Speedracer... My next dyno day I set-up (once I return from Iraq) I will prove to you that the PopCharger produces gains. I wll take a completely stock 350Z, do a baseline pull. Change out the airbox and replace with my personal PopCharger and do a second pull. I will than personally post the two dynograph and show you the gains.
If intakes don't produce gains like you said they don't wahy are they consider among all auto/moto/go-cart/etc the best mod to free up extra HP?
If intakes don't produce gains like you said they don't wahy are they consider among all auto/moto/go-cart/etc the best mod to free up extra HP?
04-28-2006, 02:37 PM
#46
Registered User
I wll take a completely stock 350Z, do a baseline pull. Change out the airbox and replace with my personal PopCharger and do a second pull. I will than personally post the two dynograph and show you the gains.
Fair enough, if you do this exact thing on about on about 30 cars. If you use a hub based dyno also, it will eliminate the issue of varying rolling resistance based on different tire widths and rubber hardness. You also need to make sure the air temp and humidity are the same for all cars tested. A 15 degree difference in air temp alone will give you 4-5hp. I hope you see why it is very hard to prove claims with regards to such a small gain. This kind of manipulation of data is used all the time by manufacturers of all sorts of products. Only with proper statistical basis can you conduct a test that will give meaning ful results. I can tell, for sure, I know of people who have lost power on a dyno run after any number of mods including intake, cat-back exhaust, and even a plenum. Explain that. Now...on the other hand, a supercharger that claims a 100hp gain is only going to need about 2-3 cars tested to prove the point. But...you also aren't going to quibble if one test produced a 93 hp gain and the other produced a 99hp gain.
If intakes don't produce gains like you said they don't wahy are they consider among all auto/moto/go-cart/etc the best mod to free up extra HP?
As I originally said, it depends on the engine. I only said an intake won't make a difference on this motor. On some engines it can make a difference.
Fair enough, if you do this exact thing on about on about 30 cars. If you use a hub based dyno also, it will eliminate the issue of varying rolling resistance based on different tire widths and rubber hardness. You also need to make sure the air temp and humidity are the same for all cars tested. A 15 degree difference in air temp alone will give you 4-5hp. I hope you see why it is very hard to prove claims with regards to such a small gain. This kind of manipulation of data is used all the time by manufacturers of all sorts of products. Only with proper statistical basis can you conduct a test that will give meaning ful results. I can tell, for sure, I know of people who have lost power on a dyno run after any number of mods including intake, cat-back exhaust, and even a plenum. Explain that. Now...on the other hand, a supercharger that claims a 100hp gain is only going to need about 2-3 cars tested to prove the point. But...you also aren't going to quibble if one test produced a 93 hp gain and the other produced a 99hp gain.
If intakes don't produce gains like you said they don't wahy are they consider among all auto/moto/go-cart/etc the best mod to free up extra HP?
As I originally said, it depends on the engine. I only said an intake won't make a difference on this motor. On some engines it can make a difference.
Last edited by Speedracer; 04-28-2006 at 02:39 PM.
04-28-2006, 02:58 PM
#47
Registered User
iTrader: (19)
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
Posts: 948
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How is it that you graduated from Harvard with two different degrees, yet manage to have so many typos in your post? I'm starting to think you were fired from Injen or some other company which makes CAI's because you have such a hard-on for proving that these companies are a sham. I asked you a few post's back to prove that an aftermarket intake does not increase hp and all you have posted is a bunch of theory, your rhetoric and philosophy on posting edict.
Either post some dyno or track test numbers that can be verified that you claims are true or please just spare us your input on this topic. I’m sure you will want to say, Oh, Gary King is a Sponsor and is biased because, if people think that these things don’t work, they won’t buy them and Gary King won’t make any money. Well it is a bit broader in scope than that Speedracer, you are essentially slandering the aftermarket industry, every vendor here and giving people who just wanted to know whether to go Injen or Nismo a Migraine.
Thanks,
Gary
Either post some dyno or track test numbers that can be verified that you claims are true or please just spare us your input on this topic. I’m sure you will want to say, Oh, Gary King is a Sponsor and is biased because, if people think that these things don’t work, they won’t buy them and Gary King won’t make any money. Well it is a bit broader in scope than that Speedracer, you are essentially slandering the aftermarket industry, every vendor here and giving people who just wanted to know whether to go Injen or Nismo a Migraine.
Thanks,
Gary
Originally Posted by Speedracer
I wll take a completely stock 350Z, do a baseline pull. Change out the airbox and replace with my personal PopCharger and do a second pull. I will than personally post the two dynograph and show you the gains.
Fair enough, if you do this exact thing on about on about 30 cars. If you use a hub based dyno also, it will eliminate the issue of varying rolling resistance based on different tire widths and rubber hardness. You also need to make sure the air temp and humidity are the same for all cars tested. A 15 degree difference in air temp alone will give you 4-5hp. I hope you see why it is very hard to prove claims with regards to such a small gain. This kind of manipulation of data is used all the time by manufacturers of all sorts of products. Only with proper statistical basis can you conduct a test that will give meaning ful results. I can tell, for sure, I know of people who have lost power on a dyno run after any number of mods including intake, cat-back exhaust, and even a plenum. Explain that. Now...on the other hand, a supercharger that claims a 100hp gain is only going to need about 2-3 cars tested to prove the point. But...you also aren't going to quibble if one test produced a 93 hp gain and the other produced a 99hp gain.
If intakes don't produce gains like you said they don't wahy are they consider among all auto/moto/go-cart/etc the best mod to free up extra HP?
As I originally said, it depends on the engine. I only said an intake won't make a difference on this motor. On some engines it can make a difference.
Fair enough, if you do this exact thing on about on about 30 cars. If you use a hub based dyno also, it will eliminate the issue of varying rolling resistance based on different tire widths and rubber hardness. You also need to make sure the air temp and humidity are the same for all cars tested. A 15 degree difference in air temp alone will give you 4-5hp. I hope you see why it is very hard to prove claims with regards to such a small gain. This kind of manipulation of data is used all the time by manufacturers of all sorts of products. Only with proper statistical basis can you conduct a test that will give meaning ful results. I can tell, for sure, I know of people who have lost power on a dyno run after any number of mods including intake, cat-back exhaust, and even a plenum. Explain that. Now...on the other hand, a supercharger that claims a 100hp gain is only going to need about 2-3 cars tested to prove the point. But...you also aren't going to quibble if one test produced a 93 hp gain and the other produced a 99hp gain.
If intakes don't produce gains like you said they don't wahy are they consider among all auto/moto/go-cart/etc the best mod to free up extra HP?
As I originally said, it depends on the engine. I only said an intake won't make a difference on this motor. On some engines it can make a difference.
04-28-2006, 05:01 PM
#48
Registered User
Originally Posted by Gary King
How is it that you graduated from Harvard with two different degrees, yet manage to have so many typos in your post? I'm starting to think you were fired from Injen or some other company which makes CAI's because you have such a hard-on for proving that these companies are a sham. I asked you a few post's back to prove that an aftermarket intake does not increase hp and all you have posted is a bunch of theory, your rhetoric and philosophy on posting edict.
Either post some dyno or track test numbers that can be verified that you claims are true or please just spare us your input on this topic. I’m sure you will want to say, Oh, Gary King is a Sponsor and is biased because, if people think that these things don’t work, they won’t buy them and Gary King won’t make any money. Well it is a bit broader in scope than that Speedracer, you are essentially slandering the aftermarket industry, every vendor here and giving people who just wanted to know whether to go Injen or Nismo a Migraine.
Thanks,
Gary
Either post some dyno or track test numbers that can be verified that you claims are true or please just spare us your input on this topic. I’m sure you will want to say, Oh, Gary King is a Sponsor and is biased because, if people think that these things don’t work, they won’t buy them and Gary King won’t make any money. Well it is a bit broader in scope than that Speedracer, you are essentially slandering the aftermarket industry, every vendor here and giving people who just wanted to know whether to go Injen or Nismo a Migraine.
Thanks,
Gary
Last edited by Speedracer; 04-28-2006 at 05:18 PM.
04-28-2006, 05:14 PM
#49
Registered User
iTrader: (19)
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
Posts: 948
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You’ve implied that manufactures published dyno results that are not accurate, so I do not think it is a stretch that you are slandering the aftermarket industry. Yes, you have typos and I called you on that too, you’d think a Harvard Alumni could handle constructive criticism.
Originally Posted by Speedracer
Slandering the entire aftermarket industry is a bit of a stretch, don't you think? Am I slandering Crawford headers? How about Nismo headers? How about Vortech superchargers? How about APS turbos? How about suspension or wheel manufacturers?. And now you are criticizing me for a few typo's? You guys are harsh. I'm outta here.
04-28-2006, 05:31 PM
#50
Registered User
Originally Posted by Gary King
You’ve implied that manufactures published dyno results that are not accurate, so I do not think it is a stretch that you are slandering the aftermarket industry. Yes, you have typos and I called you on that too, you’d think a Harvard Alumni could handle constructive criticism.
I'm not saying that a particular dyno graph isn't real. Just prove to me that it is CONSISTENTLY real. Sure on one particular day, on one particular run, on one particular car, the Pop Charger produced a 6.5 hp gain. Show me that it'll do it on a hundred dyno runs and I'll believe it. I'm sorry if I implied that the dyno graphs that were published were false. I mean't no such thing. If you are a tuner or anyone who has been around a dyno, you know that the same car on two different days even under seemingly similar conditions can have a 6 hp difference. Also, people will be very ready to publicly say "hey I gained 4.3527 hp with my intake!!!!". There are many who lose power on a dyno run and don't want to publicly say anything about it. I've been at many dyno events to see people just scratching their heads at the disappointing results of their dyno run compared to what their expectations were in relations to manufacturer's claims.
This really is the end for me on this subject. It is beat to death, and people are getting too worked up. If it makes you happy to think your intake is doing something, then by all means, be happy.
04-28-2006, 09:53 PM
#53
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: AZ
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Paid 239 for my injen sp1986...supposed to get it today but didnt GRRR damn shipping company didnt drop it off, but they dropped of my hks exhaust instead...oh well...i have 2 degrees from harvard as well 
and one from MIT...wait a second...
and one from MIT...wait a second...
05-01-2006, 01:11 PM
#54
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: nashville
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i love my Injen CAI.
i used to wonder about water getting into the filter but you have to either hose it directly for a while or fall into a ditch full of water.
i used to wonder about water getting into the filter but you have to either hose it directly for a while or fall into a ditch full of water.
05-02-2006, 08:50 AM
#55
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North Royalton, OH
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Speedracer
Gary,
I'm not saying that a particular dyno graph isn't real. Just prove to me that it is CONSISTENTLY real. Sure on one particular day, on one particular run, on one particular car, the Pop Charger produced a 6.5 hp gain. Show me that it'll do it on a hundred dyno runs and I'll believe it. I'm sorry if I implied that the dyno graphs that were published were false. I mean't no such thing. If you are a tuner or anyone who has been around a dyno, you know that the same car on two different days even under seemingly similar conditions can have a 6 hp difference. Also, people will be very ready to publicly say "hey I gained 4.3527 hp with my intake!!!!". There are many who lose power on a dyno run and don't want to publicly say anything about it. I've been at many dyno events to see people just scratching their heads at the disappointing results of their dyno run compared to what their expectations were in relations to manufacturer's claims.
This really is the end for me on this subject. It is beat to death, and people are getting too worked up. If it makes you happy to think your intake is doing something, then by all means, be happy.
I'm not saying that a particular dyno graph isn't real. Just prove to me that it is CONSISTENTLY real. Sure on one particular day, on one particular run, on one particular car, the Pop Charger produced a 6.5 hp gain. Show me that it'll do it on a hundred dyno runs and I'll believe it. I'm sorry if I implied that the dyno graphs that were published were false. I mean't no such thing. If you are a tuner or anyone who has been around a dyno, you know that the same car on two different days even under seemingly similar conditions can have a 6 hp difference. Also, people will be very ready to publicly say "hey I gained 4.3527 hp with my intake!!!!". There are many who lose power on a dyno run and don't want to publicly say anything about it. I've been at many dyno events to see people just scratching their heads at the disappointing results of their dyno run compared to what their expectations were in relations to manufacturer's claims.
This really is the end for me on this subject. It is beat to death, and people are getting too worked up. If it makes you happy to think your intake is doing something, then by all means, be happy.
05-03-2006, 03:14 PM
#56
New Member
iTrader: (24)
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Newport News VA
Posts: 749
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Damn this is getting beat into the ground Not to Diss you Speedracer but....
Injen,AEM,Jim Wolf etc.. all put R&D in b4 they post dyno's If you want more
proof call them up and ask them if they are overall accurate on the gain's .I
do not know exactly what point you want to get across but if everything has
to be the same everytime for all car's tested b4 you buy then just pass on it, It is after all your money and you have every right to have the product meet all your requierment's b4 you purchase.
I agree that they do not do much for gain's (but no gain's??) it sure looks and sounds good .
+1 on the Injen
Injen,AEM,Jim Wolf etc.. all put R&D in b4 they post dyno's If you want more
proof call them up and ask them if they are overall accurate on the gain's .I
do not know exactly what point you want to get across but if everything has
to be the same everytime for all car's tested b4 you buy then just pass on it, It is after all your money and you have every right to have the product meet all your requierment's b4 you purchase.
I agree that they do not do much for gain's (but no gain's??) it sure looks and sounds good .
+1 on the Injen
05-03-2006, 04:13 PM
#59
Vendor - Former Vendor
iTrader: (208)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Arizona
Posts: 2,038
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hello,
I know! I've been reading it for a few days, and it's just comedy to me.. I read so many threads, and when they get this crass.... You know.. right? You just have to find the humor in things sometimes, when they go so wrong.. ahahah..
That's just me though.
I know! I've been reading it for a few days, and it's just comedy to me.. I read so many threads, and when they get this crass.... You know.. right? You just have to find the humor in things sometimes, when they go so wrong.. ahahah..
That's just me though.
05-04-2006, 06:09 AM
#60
Registered User
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: New York
Posts: 3,290
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Guys he has a degree from Harvard, stop it. All jokes aside, speedracer, Im sure you do know what you're talking about, but like NIZZMO said, AEM, Injen, JWT are all very renowned companies and Im sure they put R&D into their products. And while their dynos might not be dead on, Im sure they represent an overall ballpark gain in their products. I mean, Injen is already on their third iteration of CAI for the Z. Why would they improve something if they didnt do any R&D. I have the 1986SP and I can vouch that it is a great system.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
ars88
Zs & Gs For Sale
18
04-04-2016 07:52 AM
