X pipe makes more power than h pipe - Mustang Forums:

http://www.mustangforums.com/m_22946/tm.htm

2.5" w/ H pipe: max hp: 323 max torque: 296
open headers: max hp: 333 max torque: 304
2.5" w/ X pipe: max hp: 335 max torque: 302


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X-pipe vs. H-pipe

http://www.ttiexhaust.com/H-pipe%20a...pipes/XvsH.htm

Our testing on a chassis dyno has shown improvements of 12 HP to 15 HP at the rear wheels on vehicles developing in the range of 400 HP. These improvements were seen without the benefit of any additional tuning. X-pipes really do make a difference!


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H pipe is not effecient - Corvette Forum:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...4&forum_id=101

H-Pipes are cheaper to make so factories make the cheapest possible. Since exhaust gages don't really like to make Right and Left turns, H pipes don't work as well as x-pipes. When exhaust gases pass over the x-pipe the crossing over effect aids in scavenging the combustion chambers of exhaust gases. Which aids in the filling velocieties of the incomming charge, ie better performance.

 

Understood, thats not the point I was making, Its easy to see the X02 is the better bang for the buck, but arguing that its "inferior" because it has an h-pipe like the xo2 which also has an hpipe doesn't make sense. The argument that an h pipe is inferior to an x-pipe is a seperate argument from the XO2 being inferior to the HKS(from a grammatical point of view).
My 2 cents on the actual subject:
HKS performance~=XO2
HKS sound<X02
HKS looks/bling>X02(titanium burnt tips, authentic brand name)
HKS cost>XO2
So basically the difference in cost comes down to cosmetics, if thats worth double the price to some people, you can't really argue because thats an opinion at that point, much like exterior mods.

 

A biggie for me is Quality:

So -- Let's not forget the x02 has thinner pipe walls than the HKS. Which means the x02 will succumb to cracks and broken welds from fatigue, heat, vibration, corrosion, etc...

But x02 doesn't even sell this cheap imitation on thier website anymore, so that alone should tell ya something~ I wonder when walmart & target will start carrying it? Lol!

 

Why do thinner pipe walls automatically mean the exhaust is going to fall apart? I would think your hacked up x-pipe will corrode before anything

 

This is what we call speculation. Until someone actually has problems with it you have no ground to stand on. Although it seems a lot of the quality issues right now fall on the $1500 HKS side of the line as pointed out earlier in the thread. Wasn't there a few cases of people having bad welds on their HKS?

Not listing a product on their website could be due to a lot of different things, you once again are speculating though it's because it's a POS, which doesn't really make sense. There are a lot of z owners buying this exhaust, so regardless of it's quality it makes sense to list it on their site. Companies don't really care what they ship out, if people buy it and it adds to their bottom line, they will sell it.

Why are you posting the numbers for the x-pipe? No one on here is trying to contest the fact generally an x-pipe is better than an h-pipe for performance. But there are cases where an h-pipe can out perform an x-pipe, perhaps if the x-pipe was poorly designed. The only thing I was saying with the h-pipe\x-pipe debate is this:

1. H-pipes don't necessarily cause rasp (as is the case with the xo2)
2. H-pipes have a deeper/throatier tone than an x-pipe
3. X-Pipes CAN cause rasp

So if you could address those 4 things instead of dodging them like you have, that would be great.

The fact of the matter is the xO2 is a great bang for the buck exhaust, and in my opinion sounds a lot better than the HKS with or without an x-pipe.

 

i have no rasp on my exhaust, never did

 

OMG how, you have an H-Pipe?!!?!?!?!?

 

sounds and performs great, so i see no need to hack it up

 

Nawww, we redid the x pipe in stainless. Actually thicker walled than the HKS exhaust itself. And used stainless TIG to weld it up.... It'll last as long or longer than the HKS. If you do use aluminized or galvanized piping, just make sure you paint it with heat resistant paint, so it won't start rusting.

BTW, thinner walls (ie cheap) will almost always fatigue and crack before thicker walls (more expensive). And thin-walled welds will break sooner because there isn't enough material to hold the weld together. And in case you were wondering, yes, there are also cheap and quality grades of stainless.

Keep in mind these things don't just sit under there to look pretty. They are subjected to heat up, cool down, vibration, exhaust pulses, bottoming on speed bumps, salt on the roads, fatigue of the material itself, etc... Just look around at all the Megan failures, and other cheap knockoffs. We will soon start hearing the same of the few x02's that managed to make it to market before they shut it down.

But hey, if you guys are satisfied with your thin walled cheap knockoff, then who am I to rain on your parade? As long as you have the facts (which I've provided) you can now take those facts and believe anything you want. I've done my good deed for good karma~ :-)

PS. X02 stopped selling this exhaust... With no support for those unfortunate enough to have one. Can you please tell me why? Copyright infringment coupled with inferior thin walls/ welds you say? Ohhh got it - thought so~ Lol! :-)

 

So it was copyright infringement NOT quality that shut them down from making it.

Even if something does happen to my exhaust I still have another grand to fix it before I come to the purchase price of an HKS. When you have to fix something on your HKS (h-pipe protruding into exhaust) you call it "improving on perfection" but if we ever have to fix something on ours, it's because it's a POS. And what about the quality of welds on the HKS? I heard that there were more than a few people with some pretty shatty welds.

Original thread: https://my350z.com/forum/intake-exhaust/273185-hks-improving-on-perfection-4.html

HKS Hanger:
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....ght=hks+hanger

So much for HKS "quality" eh? I am very happy with my purchase, which has 0 problems out of the box. You enjoy your "quality" HKS exhaust

 

I'm sure you already knew this given your spot-on display of knowledge thus far, but these things don't work in isolation. Especially on an NA car. All components have a very symbiotic relationship. In case that word is too big for you, it means they all interact and affect one another.

So it's possible the h pipe won't have rasp if the header, test pipe, hfc, tune combo is right. It also varies from engine to engine, v6 to v8, etc.

And what is rasp caused by again? "Rasp", boys & girls occurs when the exhaust pulses get out of synch.

How does that happen you ask? As the cylinders of each bank on a "V" style motor fire, they create a pulse in the system. The pulses will alternate back and forth from bank to bank as the motor runs. With multiple cylinders, such as a V-6, the six cylinders alternately fire creates lots of pulses in the system. The x-pipe smooths these pulses out. The h-pipe does not.

Instead of two separate banks of three cylinders doing their own work, the x-pipe uses the pulse created by a firing cylinder of one bank to create a vacuum in the other bank because of surface tension. When a cylinder of the other bank is ready to fire, instead of the piston having to force the exhaust gas out of the cylinder, the vacuum that was created by the other cylinder bank helps suck the exhaust gas out of the cylinder, hence the term "scavenging."

The velocity of exhaust gases in one header tube causes a low-pressure area in an adjacent tube, literally sucking the exhaust out of that cylinder. The more cylinders, the greater the effect.

If you do have rasp with an h pipe, the x pipe will fix it. X pipe's are also more effecient than an h pipe, so you'll enjoy added whp and possible higher mpg with an x pipe as well.

 

You may be happy for now my son, only for now. Wait a few months when your thin walled POS x02 starts fatiguing, cracking, breaking welds etc. I'll be the bigger person and not rub it in your face when it starts happening.

But I will say this upfront; Since the x02 POS was only sold a few months before they had to pull it for cheap quality and copyright infringement - good luck trying to get any support, or even trying to buy another POS x02 to replace it with.

Then you'll be getting an authentic HKS to replace the POS x02. Just think of it: $1500 for the HKS + $500 you already spent on the x02 POS = $2000!!

Yeah, you sure made a great buy there sparky~ LMFAO!!! :-)

 

Why buy new HKS when all the fan boi ricers will be selling their HKS to buy the hot new better looking super shiny HKS Hipower V2

Now its "thinner walls" are the reason why X02 is bad ...just give it up...your tap dancing sucks and everyone just laughs at your SPECULATION about its quality because you have yet to bring ONE fact about a known problem with these "thinner walls"

FYI

Thinner walls = lighter weight....another potential benefit over HKS lol

Theorhetically you could buy X02 pipes and attach HKS Hipower muffler sections to them....HKS sells the canisters for 300 or so each....would HKS canisters be enough for an HKS nutswinger to put HKS stickers on their rides....I think so....much like the HKS super suction intakes....HKS kids just want the stickers...your $2000 secret is safe with us gothchick

I have yet to see one X02 fail....care to show us?

 

I will never buy an HKS exhaust, EVER. The only time I would consider a different exhaust is if I go FI i'd get the Greddy EVO-TT.

In response to your previous post, I am not an idiot. I know how h-pipes and x-pipes work. I was also saying that either could cause rasp, because obviously the h-pipe is raspy in the HKS exhaust. I said there are lots of factors which means exhaust design, h-pipe placement and size. But an h-pipe sounding deeper is a characteristic of it, just like an x-pipe causes a higher pitched exhaust note.

This "surface tension" you are referring to is actually called the Bernoulli effect. When you have high air speed going over a surface, you get a pocket of low pressure in that area. Now this upsets the equilibrium of the system and the area of high pressure (the other side of the exhaust) migrates toward that area of low pressure, thus helping scavenging. This is the same effect as a cars sunroof when you pop it up. When you do that you notice more air comes out of your vents, this is because there is a pocket of low pressure between the roof and the sunroof essentially pulling the air out of the car.

The H-pipe works on the very same principle, it's just less efficient because the air flow from the opposing cylinder has to make 2 90 degree turns, whereas the x-pipe has a smoother route to follow.

An x-pipe isn't a guaranteed fix for the rasp either for the same reasons you gave. An X-pipe isn't a magical thing that syncs all the exhaust gas, you have to take into account the entire system.

So lets go over this quality issues with XO2:

1. NONE

HKS Quality Issues

1. Bad h-pipe on some protruding into the exhaust
2. Bad/sloppy welds with failure of exhaust hangers as a result
3. Rasp

 

So where's the x02 fan club? Ohhh there isn't one you say? Well why not I ask?

Yeah, your x02 POS is really something to brag about there chief! LOL!

Of coarse, I'm sure you knew this: But 'rice' refers to cheap quality and knockoffs. (Ie poseurs)... So your above 'rice' comment actually refers to your POS x02 - Not an HKS. But I know you knew that already~ LOL!

PS. I wish you could see the IMs I'm getting from people laughing at you~

Well... I don't think we need to worry about you ever going FI, because you're so cheap you can only nut-swing on a cheap imitation exhaust. I'm sure you already knew this, but FI on a stock block is @ $8k to $10k parts and labor. That's just a tad more than the $500 POS x02 knockoff you like to nut-swing on. Lol!


x02:
* Thinner cheaper walls than HKS
* Thinner cheaper welds than HKS
* Cheaper quality Stainless than HKS
* Rasp
* No support for this POS exhaust, because they couldn't last long enough in the market.

HKS:
* One bad production run in Q1 of this year. All quality issues have been fixed and resolved.
* Continued HKS support for all their Products.
* HKS is a standard in the market, repeatedly proving itself superior to cheap imitation knockoffs.

 

No one is arguing that, but is there a single case of the x02 failing from this yet? Just because it uses thinner piping doesn't automatically make it prone to failure.

 

How is it my X02...I dont even own an X02 system

Now he cant afford FI because he didnt overspend to buy an HKS unit?

Yet again your have not shown ONE instance of the X02 FAILING and members have shown broken hangars, H pipes with restrictions, poor welds on HKS

We have facts to cite....all you have is an opinion, an ignorant opinion but an opinion

POSEURS such as the HKS nutswingers are just as ricey for all the cosmetic mods they buy including a shiny HKS exhuast ....they will never track their cars, never drag race and will be reduced to comments liks "well, at least my exhaust is real HKS" when told a cheaper exhaust makes more power

Rice to the fullest....all that BS coming out of their mouth and they are lucky to break 13's ....this is about PERFORMANCE not bling.....if you have to brag because you own an HKS exhaust I would just laugh....who really gives a crap...they are mass produced pipes any A-hole with a credit card can buy....

Oh snap son....ballerific with that HKS....it must have cost a fortune...like 10G's.....no actually like 13-1500 from most vendors

Guess I better clown on lesser model Z's cause I have a track model They couldnt afford the track model right? GTFO here with that babyballer BS.... you drive a Z not a Ferrari sweety...some shiny pipes wont change that okay

 

Um, did you order the HKS Adman??

 

Wow.... how old are you 12? Did you really just bring up IMs from other people? I could care less what others think of me, and if they want to hate on me for having an XO2 that's fine with me, I wouldn't want to be associated with them anyway. I don't care for the HKS, but I realize there are many people out there that like it, and that's fine and I'm not going to talk **** about them because they own it. I drive a z because I liked the community and a lot of people seem to be true enthusiasts. After this discussion I no longer would group you with that set of people. True enthusiasts don't care what mod you put on your car, what it cost you or what brand it is. They may not like it for whatever reason, but they wouldn't talk down to someone because of what they chose to put on their car.

But you are absolutely correct, I am a cheap ***. My car has knock off volks too Oh and my sway bars are actually spray painted stock bars and I use civic springs because they are cheaper. You have absolutely no idea how much money I make, and the fact you make assumptions because I don't buy a $1500 exhaust is ridiculous. I do not like the way the HKS sounds, period. I researched for about a month listening to different exhausts and I favored the XO2 the most because it was one of the throatiest I had heard. I didn't even take into consideration price.

Me having an xo2 exhaust has nothing to do with rice. Maybe if I passed it off and told everyone it was an HKS I would be guilty, but the first thing I do to anyone who asks what it is I tell them it's an XO2. You are what we call a mod snob, if it's not expensive from a big brand name it's garbage, and I really do not care for those people at all.

You keep knocking on the welds of the XO2, but I have yet to see anyone with a failed one, unlike the HKS. You also like to say that the XO2 is raspy, which NONE of them I have heard have been, although I have heard quite a few HKS exhausts with rasp. I'll be the first to admit the stainless isn't the same quality as the HKS, but it's holding together just fine. What support are you talking about? Warranty? I couldn't care less about a warranty on an exhaust, if something does ever happen to it I have a friend who can weld and will fix it on the cheap.

I just really don't know why you have so much animosity toward me, and the exhaust I chose.

 

Ummmm - I track mine... Auto-x. And I'm sure you already knew this, but it ain't all about performance, it's also about reliability and quality.

It's obvious you're upset because you're starting to realize the x02 POS can't even hold a candle there... I am truly sorry you got duped into your cheap imitation knockoff - because anyone with half a brain realizes you'll soon have cracks and broken welds... But you're stuck with it. Oh well. Maybe you should get a real HKS next time~ Lol!

Sounds like somebody got their little feelings hurt because he can't afford a real HKS or even get a credit card or afford to make the payments, so he nut-swings on an inferior imitation knockoff POS $500 x02 instead. LMFAO!! :-)