I have plenty of mods, and never had a warranty problem when the mods did not cause the problem.

For example, I recently had an accelerator pedal position sensor malfunction, and the dealer replaced it totally under warranty without raising an eyebrow to any of my mods...

In any case the Magnuson-Moss act is scary for dealers, since it gives the consumer the right to sue for legal fees (which is not always allowed in civil suits)

 

I think your the only person I've ever heard say that.. Everyone says header installs on our cars are a complete pain in the ***.

 

thanks for your thoughts. Much appreciated. It's definitely something I will consider but given the weather, I will not be installing until the spring.

Gotchick, that wrap is interesting. I had not even considered it before. I suppose I have to figure out what will work for me.

Reality, honestly think you're right. Oh man...now I can't decide.

This board is guilty of providing too much knowledge, research, real world experience and assistance...dang.

 

those are pretty. Nismo are quality pieces. One thing though, you aren't really going to be happy with performance of headers. But they are still adding to the N/A hp/tq.

 

were easy? You must have sweet skills. I've never installed headers and will have them done by a local shop. Did you decide to coat or protect yours in any fashion?

 

As a note; If you don't coat or wrap your headers, you might want to heat wrap/ heat shield your brake lines, fuel line, AC line, etc.... The headers run pretty close to those areas.

 

This will be my last comment so this doesn't continue going off-topic, but I've been on both sides of the fence with warranty issues, and mods on the car. I can tell you, that there are very few lawyers that will take a case like that to trial unless you plan on paying win or lose. There are also much better corporate lawyers that will take care of things on behalf of the dealer. To top that off, with all of the weird things I've seen happen to cars, proving "beyond a shadow of a doubt" that a mod did or did not cause a particular failure is difficult to do to a judge or jury of people who have little to no understanding of how a car works.

It's a nice false sense of security for consumers, but I can tell you that the customers that rant about lawsuits usually make empty threats that lead nowhere. At least that's been the case at my service deptartment.

BTW a TPS sensor malfunction would no be related to any mod done to the car unless for some reason you spliced into the circuit the TPS used, or ran it off the same fuse, both of which are highly unlikely.

 

To solve the law suit issue; I've built a very good (platonic) relationship with the service manager at one of our local nissan dealerships. He's also a fellow Z modder, so we hit it off pretty early on. He takes care of me whenever I have a question or need his help... :-)

It would be advisable for anyone else to do the same... One can never have too many friends. :-)

 

I agree 100%, I had headers + HFC's installed at the same time, and a UTEC/tune a few days later. In the midrange my car ran a bit lean and was pinging. Basically the headers + HFC's really threw the factory tune out of whack.

 

It's pretty easy. What most people seem to do is work around a lot of things in the engine. The best and fastest way is taking things off that is in the way and put them back on later.

 

Ive heard wrapping headers with heat wrap can actually promote cracking after pronlonged use b/c it can trap moisture and heat b/w the wrap and the headers. Dunno if that's true or not... Headers are such a pita to install that for me, id rather play it safe than sorry--its something you really only want to do once.

http://www.centuryperformance.com/heatwraps.asp

Taken from the above link--believe it or not--one person's opinion:

"Why Header Wraps Suck ... and Why Header Coatings Are Recommended"

Many times I've been asked about, or have commented on the use of header wraps. This issue is a real pet peeve of mine. Good or bad about a product I'll give my opinion based upon direct use and fact.

THE FACTS:

Header wraps are designed to keep the heat in the header to improve scavenging of the cylinders. Keeping the heat in the header allows the exhaust speed to remain high. (the right idea)
There are no header manufacturers that I know of that will warranty their headers if any header wraps are installed on their products.
In most cases the header wrap damages the headers beyond repair. (I will explain below)
If you run a lean mixture, you "may" see a slim performance gain using header wraps. A rich mixture may show slim to absolutely NO gain in performance.
If you do not mind replacing your headers and header gaskets regularly, and you like that ugly look of a wrapped header, go ahead and use the heat wrap.
BACKGROUND INFORMATION:

In the past, almost all NASCAR and other racing engine builders used the header wraps for the added power gains. But, after having to replace the headers after each race due to the wrap being about the only thing holding the header together, they do not promote the practice any longer! They now utilize the thermal coatings that are chemically and electrically applied to the headers. Those include Airborn, Jet Hot, HPC, and others.

Imagine having to replace a $1200.00 plus set of headers after each race weekend! Few but the most financially well-off race teams can afford to do this. But, it is also in the downtime for remaking a custom set of headers. Most custom header makers do not have copies readily available.

I believe that the wraps are good to protect various items from heat, but not to hold the heat in the header. For example: you can use the wrapping for the protection of fuel and oil lines, wiring, etc.

Cool air needs to be around the header, and insulating it with a wrap to hold exhaust heat in makes the header material temperatures near molten. When you wrap the header you trap the heat in the header, but also in the material that needs to breathe to dissipate heat for it's own survival.

Engineers, Metallurgists, and other experts out there will state that there is no way that the material can fail because it can withstand, and it was designed to withstand, the internal temperatures of exhaust gases. TRUE! But, when the header is not allowed to cool so as to dissipate those extreme temperatures that the wrap is controlling, you have now developed a heat absorption that compares to thermal friction which will will continue to gain in temperature beyond the normal exhaust gas temperatures (EGT's). This is the same as with most any insulation.

Try this experiment ... launder a load of bath towels and then dry them. Immediately pull them out of the dryer and just toss them in a snug pile on your bed. Now leave them there for a day and then open them. You will find that there is still a considerable amount of heat left in the center towels. This heat, even though the outer towels and bed are normal room temperature have been able to contain their heat. This is a simple thermal insulation test, but with your headers you have an internal heat supply coming from the engine. The heat on the outside portion of the header material is trapped between the warp and the header and will continue to fatigue the header. This build of heat is amplified by the wrap. Towels do not need to breathe, header material does.

The EGTs stay the same but the properties of the header material changes in a way of amplifying the temperatures because of the insulation. This action goes against normal laws of thermal dynamics, but this effect is fact, and you have to pull the ears off most engineers before they believe you. This is the trouble with plenty of education, but NO "common sense"!

http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/august04/ask_sarah/

taken from the above link:

I have heard it said that in addition to decreasing the underhood temperature, header wrap also increases the flow rate of exhaust gases. If this is true, could you please describe the mechanism that accomplishes this?
Barron Keith
Golden, CO

The idea behind header wrap is the heat will stay in the header improving the scavenging effect of the cylinders. Hotter exhaust gases flow more easily. The problem is it works so well at trapping the heat in the header, it doesn't allow the heat to dissipate and temps will increase beyond the exhaust gas temperatures (EGT's) the engine normally sees. This heating and cooling causes the header to fatigue and will most likely end up damaged, increasing your chances of buying a new one! Nascar and other racing teams used to use heat wrap until they realized any extra performance they may have seen wasn't worth replacing the header after each race. Heat wrap is more meant to protect wiring, fuel and oil lines, fans, etc. from heat.



Let us know what you decide to do risky.

 

a while ago:
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....ghlight=header

 

http://www.teegardenmotorsports.com/thermo.htm

Does the wrap overheat exhaust components?

This area is not a problem due to the added flow of the exhaust. Increasing flow also increases the amount of heat extracted from the engine and manifold

When is it not recommended to use header wrap on cast iron
exhaust manifolds on a turbo engine?

Cracking on stock exhaust manifolds and housing has never been a problem. Manifolds to the turbo can be a problem only if extensive modifications have been made to the castings. These types of castings have a high failure rate even without the wrap being applied to them. This is due to the uneven wall thickness of the castings from the machine work performed to improve flow of the manifold. The heat
cycle generated could cause the cast iron to become brittle eventually causing cracking to occur.

Can the header wrap be used on a catalytic converter?

YES!

What temperature will the wrap withstand?

2,000 degrees Fahrenheit

 

Well that's a link from a seller of headers wrap. Of course they are going to say that it doesn't promote cracking. If u want to wrap your headers go ahead. When the crack due to fatigue maybe that company will buy you new headers.
Oh wait they won't, I wonder why. Do a search on the topic in the top racing forums and see what results you get.

If you believe wrapping headers won't promote fatigue to the headers that's great, just dont come crying on the boards when they do.

Wrapping headers is old school and no longer practiced by most professional racing organizations. I wonder why? If u believe everything a seller vendor says then I got some property to sell you on the moon and vrt might be the right shop for you

Sorry, but wrapping headers is risky, risky lol. I nor anyone except the makers of the wrap would recommend using wrap on the headers for the reasons stated in my previous post.

Sorry but if u think otherwise you are living in the stone age and/or you are a sucker for vendor's claims with no proof behind those statements.

Sorry to burst your bubble and pray that thermal dynamics do not apply to your set or wrapped headers. Have a nice day

 

Damn dude. You don't have to be such a d1ck. Your link was peddling JetHot. Does that make your link more correct somehow? Or does it suddenly make you some kind of expert because you can regurgitate what it says? You're just pissed that you spent double what you had to for no additional benefit. And while we're at it, your nismo headers cost @ $500 more than my dc sports, and *might* make 2 or 3 whp more. Lol. Lets talk about who's the sucker. Maybe you should consider long tube headers or at least Crawfords before spending $1200 on a pair of shorty headers like the nismos.... :-)

 

ummm, in no way was my link peddling jet-hot--none of those links were associated with jet-hot. They were 3rd party opinions--so yes they are mored credible imo than a header wrap manufacturer. Did I link jet-hot.com? No. You are mistaken.

And Im not pissed that I spent double for DOUBLE the benefit that you received for wrapping your headers. I don't have to worry about my headers cracking--you do, my friend. The wrap does great and keeping the heat in--but guess what, it also does such a great job at doing that, that it cannot dissipate the heat when needed, thus promoting stress, fatigue and promoting failure. Please prove me wrong on this, because I don't think you can unless the rules of thermal dynamics do not apply to you

SO, I think YOU are the one that is pissed for paying for header wrap that might eventually cause them to fail. Maybe you should have done some more research before doing that. But that's your choice.

I just don't think its right for you to recommend to other to wrap their headers without mentioning the serious and very real possibilty of it promoting fatigue and cracking--That's not from jet-hot--that's from multiple 3rd party sources. Go ahead and search on the internet and see what you get. I guarantee you most will recommend AGAINST using header wrap.

Oh, and thanks for being so mature and calling me a sucker--when did I call you names? I didn't. I gave accuracte information and was informing risky of the risky options of wrapping his headers. I'd rather have them bear, than wrapping them.

It seems you are the one that is insecure about your decision to wrap your headers, hence your adamant response to promote their use.

Sorry, but you are in the minority my friend.

And no, I'm not jealous of your DC headers (and I got my nismo's for $900 clearance, not $1200--I have no interest in long tube headers due to having the lift the engine--but thanks for your advice--, nor you head wrapping, and actually I got a very good deal on my coating-almost the same cost as your wrapping.

So who's the sucker now?

 

That's fine, I don't want to argue either, but I will say that most people who don't take the trouble to bring something to court is because it is financially easier for them to just suck up the price of the repair, whether the dealer is in the right or not.

But dealers should watch out for people who have a lot of time on their hands... I'm working in grad school but I can easily take time off to go to court if I was getting shafted by a crooked dealer.

 

thanks for the link, I don't know how I missed it.

 

jonnylaw your header wrap description may have some basis in reality, BUT it is not POSSIBLE by thermodynamics that the header can reach a higher temp than the EGT.

of course EGTs will appear to "read higher than stock" with header wrap, so header wrap will increase the temperature that the material would normally be exposed to, but it cannot get hotter than the gases that are heating it up. If you are doing an improper temperature measurement it could appear that the material temps are higher than the EGT, but that is not actually possible.

also, the metal will not fail JUST because you made it hotter, but because of the big temperature differences in heating/cooling temperature cycles.

one reason that a coating may be superior in this case is that it is very even and uniform over the surface of the headers, whereas, header wrap has some places where cold air can leak through. These small regions of cold air on a very hot header will cause local regions of high stress in the material, and could promote cracking.

The benefit of the coating is definitely due to it being 1. anticorrosive, which the wrap cannot claim... 2. even and uniform, which the wrap cannot claim...

those are 2 important facts but some of what you posted is pure garbage. it won't trap in moisture for example... but it may appear to cause corrosion because hotter temperatures promote corrosion.


I can definitely see the benefit of getting a coating done. It may very well increase the life of your headers for a number of reasons

 

http://www.thermotec.com/technology/faq/faq.html

Here's another link explaining why header wrap is just fine. This link is not trying to sell anything - it just explains what header wrap is and what it does. Have a nice day yourself.


If you got such a great deal - Prove it tough guy, or stfu. - Or - Maybe this is why you got'em so cheap. Check out this pic of your header. Who the heck ported that thing? Someone with Cerebral Palsie??? Lol!!


Ohhh, not peddling JotHot, huh?? Have another look at the attachment below from your link...

http://www.centuryperformance.com/heatwraps.asp