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ADVANTAGE OF X PIPE vs H PIPE vs TRUE DUAL?

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Old Apr 3, 2009 | 04:25 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by dryseals
Well yes and no. The H pipe is an old hot rodder trick for gaining more torque. H pipes were fit between the header and the muffler. When an exhaust pulse hits the muffler, a portion of it bounces back down the pipe towards the header. As it's moving back down the pipe, it'll run head on into the next exiting pulse and cause a loss in scavenging.

What was done in the old days was to jack up the car and rev the engine to the RPM of interest, spray a cheap paint. The area of concern, where the two pulses collide will cause a rise in temperature on the pipe and bubble the paint. The H pipe was located just a tad behind there to reduce pressure, giving the returning pulse a place to go.
Relieving the pressure build up is definitely correlated to the increase in power production, via the use of a crossover pipe, but the reasoning is actually much simpler than that. Picture what's really going on in the exhaust system of a 2-plane V8. The successive firing of 2 cylinders on 1 side, while nothing happens on the other; the opposite bank during that time has a lower net pressure. Adding any type of crossover section simply gives the exhaust another pipe to travel down during the moments of excess pressure.

TK
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Old Apr 4, 2009 | 01:39 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by T_K
Relieving the pressure build up is definitely correlated to the increase in power production, via the use of a crossover pipe, but the reasoning is actually much simpler than that. Picture what's really going on in the exhaust system of a 2-plane V8. The successive firing of 2 cylinders on 1 side, while nothing happens on the other; the opposite bank during that time has a lower net pressure. Adding any type of crossover section simply gives the exhaust another pipe to travel down during the moments of excess pressure.

TK
Although it may seem that simple, I'll have to disagree. While the typical American V8 does have cylinders that fire on one bank successively, they are out of phase enough to not hamper each other. The leading pulse will cause an area of low pressure behind it as it moves down the pipe, which is beneficial to the following pulse.

If it was just a straight piece of pipe that opened up soon enough, each pulse would leave at it own time with nothing stopping it. But there are enough physical obstructions in the line that not all the pulse wants to leave of it's own free will. It reflects.

I have an infrared video camera at work, Fluke Ti5x, that I use to locate hot spots on eqipment. We've used it several times on exhaust systems to pin point where the reflected wave collides with the following pulse. With a straight run and no obstructions you can see the smooth heat pattern generated along the tubing. Any change in the tubing, read muffler, will cause a reflected wave. Some mufflers are worse than others.

A long stretch of tubing can cause resonance, you can see where the standing wave occurs with this camera. The camera is such a great tool that you can see temperature changes in the radiator, engine block, headers, anything that you want to look at. If you look at you oil pan you can see the real level. It's one snell of a tool and it works wonders for exhaust systems.
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Old Apr 4, 2009 | 03:06 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by dryseals
Although it may seem that simple, I'll have to disagree. While the typical American V8 does have cylinders that fire on one bank successively, they are out of phase enough to not hamper each other. The leading pulse will cause an area of low pressure behind it as it moves down the pipe, which is beneficial to the following pulse.

If it was just a straight piece of pipe that opened up soon enough, each pulse would leave at it own time with nothing stopping it. But there are enough physical obstructions in the line that not all the pulse wants to leave of it's own free will. It reflects.

I have an infrared video camera at work, Fluke Ti5x, that I use to locate hot spots on eqipment. We've used it several times on exhaust systems to pin point where the reflected wave collides with the following pulse. With a straight run and no obstructions you can see the smooth heat pattern generated along the tubing. Any change in the tubing, read muffler, will cause a reflected wave. Some mufflers are worse than others.

A long stretch of tubing can cause resonance, you can see where the standing wave occurs with this camera. The camera is such a great tool that you can see temperature changes in the radiator, engine block, headers, anything that you want to look at. If you look at you oil pan you can see the real level. It's one snell of a tool and it works wonders for exhaust systems.
so guys what i understand from you that : in our case inline V6 350z an X-Pipe will reduce the time diffrence in pulse`s and that what makes less rasp and deeper sound ? u know by mixing the pulses !!
and how it will effect the power ,,more or less in low-end HP ? (if i`m right)
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Old Apr 7, 2009 | 10:54 PM
  #44  
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canceled the X-pipe installing on my APS 2.5 TD, some one advise me to keep it as it is for future if i go F/I since it`s great exhaust with F/I setups .
sorry if you wear waiting for the results
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Old Apr 8, 2009 | 07:51 AM
  #45  
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Actually if you go turbo, the need for an X probably diminishes. Not sure for supercharging as the firing sequence and pulses down each bank are retained. For NA, some type of cross over is recommended. I've posted all article already. Not sure if you read it or not.
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Old Apr 8, 2009 | 02:54 PM
  #46  
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so i`m allright ,no x-pipe for my exhaust
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Old Apr 11, 2009 | 10:29 AM
  #47  
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Our X-pipe research included old and new Hot Rod, Car Craft articles on tri-wye headers and no-connector, H-pipe, X-pipe dyno and track comparsions. This, as well as lengthly converations with well know tuners and automotive (engine) engineers, has supported my personal opinion that X-pipes work best on normally aspirated engines.

Why? X-pipes improve exhaust gas scavenging and cylinder charging while decreasing reversion especially with long duration overlap (emissions) camshafts.

How? Basically as one cylinder's exhaust pulse travels through the x-pipe it creates a low pressure zone between it and the next the next pulse. This low pressure zone exists between each exhause pulse staring at the exhaust valves. Therefore each exhaust pulse helps pull the subsequent pulse along.

Supporting Data? Reviewing numerous (well over 100) 350Z/G35 dyno results the x-pipe has provided the best peak and mean average torque and mean average horsepower numbers to date. One example: Two 05 G35 Coupes 6MT Rev-up engines and the same modifications other than the exhaust systems.

Results:

Car 1 - 7,000 miles -- P/Tq = 250.4 -- P/HP = 276.7 -- MAve/Tq = 232.08 -- MAve/HP = 187.1 -- Non-connected Exhaust.

Car 2 - 4,700 miles -- P/Tq = 263.5 -- P/HP = 274.1 -- MAve/Tq = 240.47 -- MAve/HP = 202.5 -- X-Pipe Exhaust.

Same dyno / same day / nearly same atmospheric conditions / both cars dynoed back to backwithin one hour.

Of course there are exceptions, but my observation was also documented in print in my G35 Dyno Marathon article from a few years back.

Last edited by DaveO; Apr 12, 2009 at 04:07 PM.
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Old Apr 11, 2009 | 09:47 PM
  #48  
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I've got a question for you exhaust gurus. If I cut the resonators off my Injen and weld in a non-resonated x-pipe in it's place what effects will I see in terms of sound (volume, rasp, pitch, etc.)? And how about the Magnaflow resonated x-pipe in the place of the seperate resonators, but adding long tube headers/headers and test pipes?

Last edited by 03Zilverstone; Apr 11, 2009 at 10:41 PM.
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Old Apr 12, 2009 | 07:27 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by 03Zilverstone
I've got a question for you exhaust gurus. If I cut the resonators off my Injen and weld in a non-resonated x-pipe in it's place what effects will I see in terms of sound (volume, rasp, pitch, etc.)? And how about the Magnaflow resonated x-pipe in the place of the seperate resonators, but adding long tube headers/headers and test pipes?
You'll be out a decent amount of money, and won't add that much power.
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Old Apr 12, 2009 | 07:44 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by tranceformer95
You'll be out a decent amount of money, and won't add that much power.

I'm talking purely sound wise. Even at that a non-resonated x-pipe vs. a resonated x-pipe with test pipes?
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Old Apr 12, 2009 | 08:57 AM
  #51  
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Dave O. What were the specs of the exhaust systems in the test.
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Old Apr 12, 2009 | 12:35 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by 03Zilverstone
I'm talking purely sound wise. Even at that a non-resonated x-pipe vs. a resonated x-pipe with test pipes?
I think it would be noticeably louder w/o the resonated x-pipe. I remember a while back Fast Intentions made a special order catback exhaust. It was the same as the regular 2.5" intimidator that they offer, just replaced the resonated magnaflow x-pipe with a unresonated x-pipe. It seemed louder from the sound clip.
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