What about my gains of 20+ ft-lbs of torque at 2800rpm after swapping out my HFCs? While they weren't stock cats, they certainly weren't cursed like test pipes down low, either. Just throwing that out there.

 

I never said what the pipes themselves accomplish is impossible. Less well thought out replacement parts, whether it be high flow cats or test pipes tend to have a characteristic "dip" in torque over a very specific RPM range. The Motordyne product does well, in your case, at removing that particular dip. With that said, in all honesty the dip is across a very small band, below 3000rpm. Again, to reiterate, the product delivers as claimed, but as it's been stated by others, its unrealistic to think they offer a drastic performance increase over standard test pipes of the same diameter, overall. The price premium over standard test pipes is for 20ft-lbs over a 500rpm band, from ~2500-3000rpm.

 

And they eliminate rasp. Thats why I like them. My hfc's are raspy, and TP's would be worse making it obvious that its a straight through exhaust. I want the power of TP's but not rasp, and no extra attention.(cops)
If I pay $600 for the pipes, make an extra 10whp over HFC's, and eliminate rasp, I will call it a day.

 

And I know that people belittle the importance of rasp removal, but let's be honest here. All performance gains aside, consider the amount of money that goes into the purchase of an exhaust system. How much of the hundreds of dollars being spent is paying for the performance, and how much is for the sound?

It's going to be different for everyone, but it's important to remember that test pipes (and even HFCs) on certain exhausts can make them sound downright awful - bad enough to the point that it's not worth even $200 for the performance when you consider the acoustic quality you're losing. Most people don't like driving around raspy monsters. And for a lot of people, this is the only way to get that power without destroying the sound. Besides, the general consensus is that ART Pipes sound better than either HFCs or Test Pipes.

I'm not saying the point about the price is irrelevant. However, you should consider the money that you pay for other exhaust components and what you're getting out of it when saying the ART Pipes are overpriced.

 

...........

 

1. There is no "going backwards in HP" going on here. The ART pipes yielded huge gains without a tune, including 20+wtq at the bottom end. You have no idea what you're talking about.

2. You can now get the ART Pipes for $585. These headers (304 Stainless) still cost $576 new.

3. Cost less? Looks like someone forgot about installation.

After installation, the ART Pipes cost significantly less and give you very similar gains without a tune. Your argument is flat wrong. But you don't care, do you? That's not the point, is it? You just want to run around here and spout derisive animosity regardless of its veracity.

For the love of God, just stop already. I'm so entirely sick of your nonsensical jihad against Motordyne. All you do is troll around and **** on my threads and any other that happens to say something positive about Motordyne products. You drag them off-topic, beating them to death with your silly assertions and robbing them of any value they might otherwise have had with your false claims and incessant personal arguments. It's completely unwarranted and bad for the community. So please, take your one-man anti-Motordyne hate parade and go march somewhere else. It's pathetic.

 

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Beddow, you really need to learn how to have a civil conversation. This thread is not a chat room for you to throw insults around, challenge members to street races, and make inflammatory and sexist comments. This is supposed to be a thread discussing the merits of the Stillen Headers. It went off-topic, and I participated, because the people taking it off-topic were being civil. Thus, the discussion was productive. However, you seem utterly incapable of being civil and your little game is getting really old.

I'll play one more round:

1) The point of this thread has absolutely nothing to do with ART Pipes. I explained in the beginning and in numerous posts elsewhere my rationale behind the removal of the headers. I'll say it again in case you missed it - it had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the ART Pipes. If you want, I can forward you the email I sent to Stillen before any of this happened, attempting to get a refund for headers that appeared to have caused a drop in power. I have plenty of proof and evidence that I am, in fact, telling the truth. Thanks for insulting my integrity and making baseless accusations.

2) I never said they were actually cheaper out the door. I don't know what on earth you're getting at. Go back and read what I said again. But thanks for insulting my intelligence.

3) Have you ever tried installing headers? A generous shop expert will give you an estimate of 5 hours. I've seen estimates as high as 10 hours for various headers, with some requiring you to drop the engine. They are not backyard bolt-ons, but rather one of the most difficult parts to deal with. That is why MOST people who buy aftermarket headers have someone else do the installation. You are dead wrong on this one. Thanks for insulting both my technical and physical prowess.

Am I female? Way to go off the deep end and insult women around the world with your sexist remarks. Really classy, dude.

My choice of words has absolutely nothing to do with my military status. It's an entirely appropriate description of your behavior. By calling your trolling hate-fest a "jihad," I'm making reference to your obsessive zealotry; you seem to have taken it upon yourself to wage war against Motordyne, their products, and their professional integrity. You're running all over these forums making baseless claims and don't appear willing to stop for anything. And for the record, I didn't follow you around - I like the Intake/Exhaust section, and you responded to a thread, putting it in bold and at the top of the list. Forgive my curiosity. Believe me, if I could never read another one of your posts again for as long as I live, I would jump at the chance. The last thing I want to do is follow you, of all people.

And nice finishing touch, by the way. Never walk away without taking a cheap shot, right? Throw in some condescending, instigative comments at the end so you can try to burrow as deeply as you can under my skin? Is that the game?

Look. I've just responded to your entire post. If you want to continue this discussion, PM me. I'm sick of you filling my thread with your off-topic harassment and Motordyne-bashing. This is not your playground, and I'm not going to keep playing your games.

Please do everyone a favor: Stop this garbage and let the thread get back on topic.

 

This is what I mean. You're saying to some 10-15whp is not worth $200 because of the potential for unfavorable acoustics. So for ART Pipes, you pay $200 for the 10-15whp, then an additional $400 for the sound? Honestly, for ~$400 I would say it's worth it (my opinion, of course), but not for 3x the cost. Figure the cost of those, plus as your dyno has shown that even shorty headers leave some power on the table, at around ~$600 for each part, ~$1200-1300 total, Tomei has a header/testpipe combo in that range, and if one stretches the budget just a bit more, SG long tubes isn't out of the question.

 

Well, for some people it's worth it. I definitely see where you're coming from. I think you're making a very valid point, so don't get me wrong. However, there are certain exhaust setups out there that sound great with HFCs or stock cats, but absolutely awful with test pipes.

The Stillen exhaust, for instance, is extremely prone to rasp the closer to test pipes you get. With the ART Pipes, though, it produces less rasp than with HFCs. So for some, test pipes could potentially ruin the sound of an otherwise great-sounding exhaust. If that's the case, then they're left with the choice of having less-than-maximum power or having maximum power with their car sounding kind of terrible. The ART Pipes, I would say, are worth every penny to people in that situation.

But again, you bring up a valid point regarding cost. At that price, they're not necessarily for everyone.

 

...........

 

1. Do a quick survey of how many people with aftermarket headers did the installation themselves. Your answer is right there, and you'll find that I'm right.

2. How did you insult females? Are you kidding? Here:
"Are you female?... The signs are all there, can't stand the truth, get mad over someone saying things you don't like, overreacting, and just flat out lie."

3. Don't make me pull up the definition for the word "jihad". You are the one who doesn't know what it actually means. And if someone actually calls me anti-American, I will probably just laugh my *** off; it would be a testament to their massive, uncontrollable ignorance.

4. Don't talk to me about spouting filth. Anyone with eyes can take one cursory look at this thread and see the garbage you're smearing all over it. You have almost no idea what you're talking about and seem entirely incapable of presenting what little knowledge you do possess in a manner that's mature and civil.

So once again, please stop posting this crap on my thread. I would like for it to get back on-topic, and that's not going to happen if you keep this up. If you would like to continue talking to me, just PM me. It's not that hard, and I really will respond. But for the sake of everyone else on here - stop.

 

Update for anyone interested:

These headers are still up for sale in the Classifieds section. I just dropped the price down to $450 plus shipping.

 

............

 

Hahaha, "jihad" is an anti-American word now?

That about explains the kind of intelligence we've been dealing with here.

 

I know, right?

I don't know why I feed trolls. I really don't.

 

.......

 

Hahahaha. That has nothing to do with anything. "A Dick" = *****. Dick = Richard.

Jihad = literally means "Holy War", you fool. There is no other meaning or connotation to the word.

 

............

 

Hahaha, this guy is pathetic. What this has to do with our troops...I don't know. Jihads have been around for millenias on. It is any war that is in the name of God. That's all a Jihad is.

Merriam-Webster:
1 : a holy war waged on behalf of Islam as a religious duty; also : a personal struggle in devotion to Islam especially involving spiritual discipline
2 : a crusade for a principle or belief