Gotta give it up for the looks of the injen. I love the look. And sound is a no brainer!

 

Wow, you must be Einstein . You just repeated what I'm trying to say. But anyways, you do need a GED to be Einstein

 

well I can kind of add something here.


From Ares
From Me
I have not had a chance to get any kind of Reading with a Popchager yet, but it seems like an AEM CAI will run with an Intake Temp about 50 to 60 degrees less than the stock runs. in 70 degree weather
So one could assume the same for the popcharger since it just replaces the stock air box. But i have afeeling the Popcharger will give better Flow(more air) than a CAI.

 

the real key is where these intake temp "measurements" are being taken....

I find it really hard to believe that the stock intake is sucking in 130 degree air on a 70 degree day while car car is in motion...

The air may be 130 degrees once it gets to the throttle body...but that doesn't mean that the air entering the filter is 130 degrees...

 

Why does it matter as long as they are consistant? I think both guys are using an ORBII reader for these measurements.

And who cares what the air is at the filter.. the end result is what matters.. the air going into the TB.

 

Here is why I think that test isnt valid. The stock airbox gets fresh air, just like a CAI. BUT, the stock intake uses plastic tubing from the air box until the TB. Plastic will keep the air "insulated" much better than the metal tubing being used by injen or AEM.

 

All readings are From the same kind of ODB II Scanner and Software, just on two Different Z. All the Air Readings come Straight From The MAF, and are the same info the ECU "Sees" , So these are the Only Temps that Matter, and effect the cars Performance.

If that is true, the why am I seeing 30% to 40% cooler Air temp Readings from My Metal tubing, Than from the Stock Set up?

 

That's all fine and good....but what I really look for is real world PROOF...

I was at the track a couple of weeks ago...there was another touring Z with a CAI and injen SES exhaust...and a pully...and I was consistantly trapping HIGHER BONE STOCK that he was modded...intersting...I think CAIs rob hp on the Z...that's just my theory though...

You can run all the tests you want...but how the car performs in the REAL WORLD is what matters.

 

I don't get it.. chazz posts REAL WORLD FACTS (measurements from the ECU). What are you looking for? He's posting facts, not conclusions.

You're discounting his facts (and the ECU) based on comparing your car to another? How retarded is that? What two cars are identical to start with ? Let alone all the other factors.

Honestly probably the best thing going for the JWT is the free flow filter (its HUGE!!). As for it 'already being a CAI' while it does have an air vent to the front of the bumper (tho small).. all that air passes by the BIG *** HOT RADIATOR before it gets up there.. plus its not getting a direct blast of fresh air (the air has plenty of other routes to go as well.. so how much positive airflow is up at the top of the bumper is yet to be measured). So certainly a filter IN THE AIRSTREAM is going to get cleaner air. Now how much difference that makes, you can't say within reasonable estimate.. but there is certainly a difference between the two's ability to grab clean air.

The whole discussion about resistive flows due to piping is another story.

As for the piping.. I don't feel like doing the math to figure out the duration and heat transfer of the air in the tube, but I don't think its night and day differences between stock and a polished tube. Sure it gets hot, but you can't transfer much heat in less extreme short amount of time the air is in the tube.

 

Not "retarded" at all. His "facts" mean nothing in the real world bud. Go to the track and whine about how your CAI supposedly pulls in colder air than a stock or short-ram and see how many people care.

I posted "real world facts" and I'd say my facts matter a little bit more to the average joe than intake temp readings. There's nothing wrong with comparing 2 of the same car on the same day. Hell, chazz compared 2 different Z's in his post. It's a lot more valid than "my Z sucks in colder air than your's so HA"

BTW - all the highest trapping N/A Z's seem to have popchargers...not CAI's...I wonder why.

As for the stock intake duct...take a look at it again...the air that flows in DOES NOT pass through the radiator first. I drove out to dinner tonight and when I got out of the resturant (45 minutes later). I popped my hood and my pop charger was nice and heat soaked so was the intake tube and manifold. Drove 15 minutes home in about 55 degree weather and when I got home my intake was again nice and cold...so was the intake tube.

I don't know how you guys can sit here and say that the stock intake or popcharger doesn't get near ambient air while the vehicle is in motion. Are you trying to make yourself feel better about spending over $200 on an intake that doesn't work any better than a $100 intake?

Again, I don't care what measurments were taken, they simply don't mean jack in the real world.

Regarding the composition of the intake tubing, did I ever say anything about the metal vs. plastic tubing? I don't think so.

Just for clarification....

I DID NOT START THIS THREAD TO BRING BACK THE POP VS. CAI DEBATE AGAIN.

Obviously people didn't READ my previous post and decided to turn this thread in to another stupid intake argument.

If you want to "prove" your CAI....bring your Z to Chicago and we can do some friendly runs. Until then, cut the cr@p, and quit hi-jacking my thread.

 

Yeah.. the ECU readings mean nothing.

I don't give a rats *** about my CAI vs a pop-charger. I'm just not about to let the mob-mentality go on with baseless claims.

Your 'facts' are a bit less then observations. Your 'facts' are actually a sum of NUMEROUS variables.. none of which you can conclude from the end-result. The ECU results are a result of far fewer variables. If you can't see the difference there, there isn't anything more worth saying if you can't break down things logically.

I never said it did. I said it has to pass BY. The front of the bumper is not sealed up or anything.. and the stock 'duct' is way up high in the bumper. I'm not even going to attempt to estimate how much pressurized air flow makes it up there (I'm an engineer.. but I did not study fluid dynamics directly). But you do have this big monster heat radiator in front of the airflow.. just stating the stock position could be improved upon.. and thats what a CAI does.. for at least getting cleaner air. Now if the sum of the pros and cons adds up to net gains. I didn't say I claim to know. I said the CAI will get fresher air.

Stop making a pissing match out of every comment.

I don't care about CAI vs popcharger. I bought my injen for the sound and looks myself. If I wanted performance.. I probably would have stayed with my K&N and stock box.

 

From the peanut gallery: comparing 2 different cars' performance with different mods (or no mods) is ignorant (how many miles, crappy gas, the variables go on). Now compare on-track performance of a mod on the same car the same day (preferably within an hour) after an average of a series of runs for each (assuming the clutch holds up), then you might have some empirical answer.

Now flame on and pass the popcorn.

 

 

I personally think that arguing over such a small hp difference is pointless. If the CAI designs perform better in the Z, you wont notice it. A cam you will notice, but not two different intakes, unless you mocked up a true "ram-air" system. Personally, I would trust JWT over all the current intake, with the exception being NISMO because they arguably the best Nissan tuner in the US. They could have easily built a CAI using there existing pop charger, but chose not to. IMO they chose the system they have because it provides maximum performance while being relatively economical.

In summary, an Intake is an intake.....

 

Ignorant of what.....reality?

Miles on a car doesn't mean jack (my buddies maxima is currently the QUICKEST all-motor 4th gen maxima mod for mod with over 150,000 miles on the clock) Crappy gas could have been a factor if it wasn't pumped from the same station the SAME DAY. What else you got for me?? I bet the next one is driver...

Dyno #'s don't mean jack
ECU temp readings don't mean jack
theories on airflow don't mean jack

What happens in the real world matters.

 

I guess you need to go back and read what I put in bold

 

Then why are you posting in this thread???

 

Laughable at best.

I go with what I experience in the real world....please tell me how that is ignorant.

 

IMO the best indicator of performance is real world testing....a dyno is just an estimated guess of hp. there are so many variables involved in dynoing i don't see how it can be that accurate. take the car to the track and you will know if you are gaining or losing, and there are less variables involved. besides, its a lot more fun driving vs having your car hooked up to a machine.

 

I agree with Road Warrior, who is supporting your point, BriGuyMax. I was also agreeing with you in principle that the practical results of the mod, what I believe you call "real world" are what matters most when evaluating the effectiveness of a so-called power mod.

The debate over intakes has raged seemingly forever and I have never seen an empirical test done like the one I describe. My opinion is that this would give the most scientific answer based on "real world" results. I simply disagree with your example of comparing your car to another as a definitive answer to what mod is better, for the reasons I stated.

Bottom line, I actually agree with you, just not what you said. Until someone does the test that I described, or something similarly methodical, we'll never really know and this debate will keep flaring up.

Resume flames!