Interesting pop-charger observation
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 7,303
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From: West suburbs of Chi-town
Originally posted by jng1226
I agree with Road Warrior, who is supporting your point, BriGuyMax. I was also agreeing with you in principle that the practical results of the mod, what I believe you call "real world" are what matters most when evaluating the effectiveness of a so-called power mod.
The debate over intakes has raged seemingly forever and I have never seen an empirical test done like the one I describe. My opinion is that this would give the most scientific answer based on "real world" results. I simply disagree with your example of comparing your car to another as a definitive answer to what mod is better, for the reasons I stated.
Bottom line, I actually agree with you, just not what you said. Until someone does the test that I described, or something similarly methodical, we'll never really know and this debate will keep flaring up.
Resume flames!
I agree with Road Warrior, who is supporting your point, BriGuyMax. I was also agreeing with you in principle that the practical results of the mod, what I believe you call "real world" are what matters most when evaluating the effectiveness of a so-called power mod.
The debate over intakes has raged seemingly forever and I have never seen an empirical test done like the one I describe. My opinion is that this would give the most scientific answer based on "real world" results. I simply disagree with your example of comparing your car to another as a definitive answer to what mod is better, for the reasons I stated.
Bottom line, I actually agree with you, just not what you said. Until someone does the test that I described, or something similarly methodical, we'll never really know and this debate will keep flaring up.
Resume flames!
I really didn't want to start this debate again...but I guess it happened anyway...
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 733
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From: Stevenson Ranch, CA
This is an interesting thread. Yes, it is sort of a rehash, but a year ago absolutely no one wanted a Pop Charger. Everyone kept talking about the "hot air" under the hood, etc and that the AEM or Injen CAI was the only way to go. I read a couple of obscure articlea on the Pop Charger, as well as on Jim Wolf Technologies and opted for the Pop Charger. Most people thought I was an idiot when I posted that I had purchased one.
Things have swung around now and the Pop Charger seems to be the weapon of choice for a ton of people. Some are replacing the much more expensive CAI's they bought last year with the Pop Charger. I suppose this is due to the dyno results shown as well as the relatively low cost.
Yesterday, I went to TechnoSquare to have my ECU reflashed. I had met Tadashi several times in the past at different meets and while he was checking my car over and doing the reflash, we talked about differnent modifications.
It was over 100 degrees here is Southern California yesterday, and I had been in a few traffic jams along the way.........my engine bay was VERY hot when he popped the hood. My Pop Charger was also very hot. You couldn't touch the metal parts of the filter without burning yourself. My engine temp gauge never got past the center position though.
Tadashi and TechnoSquare know the Z inside and out. Many people send their cars there to be refitted for racing. They were building a race car yesterday in fact.
When we talked about intakes, he said that they always use the stock airbox with a K&N filter. He said that it is true that the Pop Charger shows gains on a dyno, but that in racing conditions the stock box performs better. He also said if you have a show car, of course a good looking CAI makes the engine bay a lot nicer. If you like the sound you get, but don't mind a little less power when you are moving quickly down the road, get a Pop Charger.
Of course my jaw was dropping at this point....since I was one of the first Pop Charger advocates. He went on to explain that everyone forgets the fact that the stock box was designed to become pressurized while the car is moving. This pressurization is something that the engine was designed to run best with. Don't ask me the engineering reasons for this.........I decided to take him at his word since he has seen a thousand times more Z's than I have. Maybe with pressurization the air flow is more steady and smooth in case your speed is varying at all......who knows?
The other reason my engine was hot according to Tadashi was because of my K&G after market grille. He looked at it and immediately said it was "restrictive". I sort of figured that.....even a screen door limits the amount of breeze coming in. There are only three horizontal bars angled in the right direction on purpose on our 350's. They were designed for airflow........not looks (that's for sure). The bottom of the engine compartment is sealed, so air can't simply bypass the aftermarket blockage and get in. I took off the grille last night and went back to the old stand by.......the door edge molding........(I really liked that K&G grille too)
Anyhow, I haven't made up my mind yet about putting the stock air box back on.........I really like the sound of that Pop Charger, RT CAT and Borla combo. (yes, it looked like I was running a bit lean before the reflash.....I had cooler plugs put in since the others were a tad "roasted") Since I invested so much in "air flow" mods, I guess I did mess up putting on a grille that restricted air flow.......but it sure looked nice.....lol
Things have swung around now and the Pop Charger seems to be the weapon of choice for a ton of people. Some are replacing the much more expensive CAI's they bought last year with the Pop Charger. I suppose this is due to the dyno results shown as well as the relatively low cost.
Yesterday, I went to TechnoSquare to have my ECU reflashed. I had met Tadashi several times in the past at different meets and while he was checking my car over and doing the reflash, we talked about differnent modifications.
It was over 100 degrees here is Southern California yesterday, and I had been in a few traffic jams along the way.........my engine bay was VERY hot when he popped the hood. My Pop Charger was also very hot. You couldn't touch the metal parts of the filter without burning yourself. My engine temp gauge never got past the center position though.
Tadashi and TechnoSquare know the Z inside and out. Many people send their cars there to be refitted for racing. They were building a race car yesterday in fact.
When we talked about intakes, he said that they always use the stock airbox with a K&N filter. He said that it is true that the Pop Charger shows gains on a dyno, but that in racing conditions the stock box performs better. He also said if you have a show car, of course a good looking CAI makes the engine bay a lot nicer. If you like the sound you get, but don't mind a little less power when you are moving quickly down the road, get a Pop Charger.
Of course my jaw was dropping at this point....since I was one of the first Pop Charger advocates. He went on to explain that everyone forgets the fact that the stock box was designed to become pressurized while the car is moving. This pressurization is something that the engine was designed to run best with. Don't ask me the engineering reasons for this.........I decided to take him at his word since he has seen a thousand times more Z's than I have. Maybe with pressurization the air flow is more steady and smooth in case your speed is varying at all......who knows?
The other reason my engine was hot according to Tadashi was because of my K&G after market grille. He looked at it and immediately said it was "restrictive". I sort of figured that.....even a screen door limits the amount of breeze coming in. There are only three horizontal bars angled in the right direction on purpose on our 350's. They were designed for airflow........not looks (that's for sure). The bottom of the engine compartment is sealed, so air can't simply bypass the aftermarket blockage and get in. I took off the grille last night and went back to the old stand by.......the door edge molding........(I really liked that K&G grille too)
Anyhow, I haven't made up my mind yet about putting the stock air box back on.........I really like the sound of that Pop Charger, RT CAT and Borla combo. (yes, it looked like I was running a bit lean before the reflash.....I had cooler plugs put in since the others were a tad "roasted") Since I invested so much in "air flow" mods, I guess I did mess up putting on a grille that restricted air flow.......but it sure looked nice.....lol
Z Flier
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 650
Likes: 0
From: VA - USA
The 'dyno' results about the pop-charger are simply one magazine article (forget the name right now) which claimed 6.5hp for the popcharger and magically over night it was accepted as fact. I don't think I've seen any other dynos with just a Popcharger. Most of the dynos related to it were when the car first came out.. because the JWT was one of the first 'performance' mods available. The heat shield add-on came later.
The crawford crew also talks about the stock box running pressurized.
Honestly, I have my own opinion on that topic purely based on the size of the areas involved.. but I'll keep it to myself.
The crawford crew also talks about the stock box running pressurized.
Honestly, I have my own opinion on that topic purely based on the size of the areas involved.. but I'll keep it to myself.
Originally posted by rodH
btw, why is someone with a 5AT so interested in racing??
btw, why is someone with a 5AT so interested in racing??
sorry to get off topic also...the pop charger is amazing im glad you like it, for the money its the best buy i beleive.
Ben
Originally posted by SEzzz
does the pop charger really change the sound that much?
does the pop charger really change the sound that much?
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....threadid=68756
this is with just the intake! stock exhaust! only mod is intake
enjoy!Ben
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 193
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From: Raleigh, NC
Originally posted by Wedge
Tadashi and TechnoSquare know the Z inside and out. Many people send their cars there to be refitted for racing. They were building a race car yesterday in fact.
When we talked about intakes, he said that they always use the stock airbox with a K&N filter. [/B]
Tadashi and TechnoSquare know the Z inside and out. Many people send their cars there to be refitted for racing. They were building a race car yesterday in fact.
When we talked about intakes, he said that they always use the stock airbox with a K&N filter. [/B]
On another note, I'm really glad to see you're OK, I thought for sure you were a goner when you and Luke assaulted that Imperial Walker. When it crushed your crash-landed Snowspeeder, I thought I would never hear from you again. Long live the Rebellion!
Wow, was that geeky or what?
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 733
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From: Stevenson Ranch, CA
lol jng1226........I don't know about the geeky thing......who doesn't like star wars? But no.......that is not where the nick came from. and not golf either........it is an old nickname from long, long ago when I played high school football on a planet far, far away.
It was a very interesting day at Technosquare.....I learned a lot.
It was a very interesting day at Technosquare.....I learned a lot.
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,703
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From: central ny
So basically we're trading cool sound for a performance loss. Awesome. Oh wait, no. 
Wedge, with all your mods, it's ok to keep the pop-charger on. You're already above your baseline hp/tq i'm assuming. So why not stay with the pop-charger? The real question now is, how much would you gain if you put the stock box back on?
Wedge, with all your mods, it's ok to keep the pop-charger on. You're already above your baseline hp/tq i'm assuming. So why not stay with the pop-charger? The real question now is, how much would you gain if you put the stock box back on?
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 790
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From: Del Rio, Texas
Originally posted by jng1226
On another note, I'm really glad to see you're OK, I thought for sure you were a goner when you and Luke assaulted that Imperial Walker. When it crushed your crash-landed Snowspeeder, I thought I would never hear from you again. Long live the Rebellion!
On another note, I'm really glad to see you're OK, I thought for sure you were a goner when you and Luke assaulted that Imperial Walker. When it crushed your crash-landed Snowspeeder, I thought I would never hear from you again. Long live the Rebellion!
Bah, Wedge was Luke's wingman (or Luke was his) and Wedge's backseater was Jansen...
-Geek off
Anyway, Sins, I certainly understand ATs and how useful they are for bracket racing or say, ridiculously high powered cars like Top Fuelers (different setup of course, but not manuals)!!
Perhaps RodH is talking about road racing (unlikely...)
if you are worried about getting more cold air to the port by the intake, simply remove the plastic piece on that side of the grille. it really doesent serve a purpose. (instant 50 whp gain DYNO PROVEN!!!) oh yea and it lightens the car too.
Well the post above by Wedge just helped me make up my mind. I had a previous car that everyone kept saying already had an efficient intake system. But of course I put in an AEM CAI. It was pretty and sounded great, but actually lost power in the low and mid range, despite what AEM claimed.
So this time I decided I would really research before putting one in the Z. I stood and stared at the stock intake, took temp readings after a day of my typical road conditions. It is actually cooler to the touch than any CAI tube thats for sure. So heat soak is not an issue. The pipe is of good diameter and is basically a staright thru to the TB. The air inlet at the front gives it access to cool air when in motion. So I say to my self, "self, just what are you trying to fix here?"
I will take TS's advice and keep the stock airbox but put in a K&N filter. I was looking at the Nismo element but I can't imagine what makes it worth $80 versus $40 for the K&N.
Thanks for that write up Wedge. You just saved me a bunch of $$$.
So this time I decided I would really research before putting one in the Z. I stood and stared at the stock intake, took temp readings after a day of my typical road conditions. It is actually cooler to the touch than any CAI tube thats for sure. So heat soak is not an issue. The pipe is of good diameter and is basically a staright thru to the TB. The air inlet at the front gives it access to cool air when in motion. So I say to my self, "self, just what are you trying to fix here?"
I will take TS's advice and keep the stock airbox but put in a K&N filter. I was looking at the Nismo element but I can't imagine what makes it worth $80 versus $40 for the K&N.
Thanks for that write up Wedge. You just saved me a bunch of $$$.
the stock airbox is what they run in sages spec z (race car), and their researchg proved it does get the coldest air. but to tell you the truth i wouldent trade my pop for anything, the sound alone is worth the few degrees... and if you are that concerned about a few degrees id say shell out for the stillen air box, that box mixed with the ported bumper would allow the ram air to work to it full potential. but yes i agree with ZinMiami that stock for cold air cant be beaten.
Last edited by NOBI; Aug 27, 2004 at 06:16 PM.
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