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Maintenance & Repair 350Z up keep and diagnosing/fixing problems

Tire FEATHERING: FYI

Old 02-24-2003, 05:21 PM
  #41  
Apexi350z
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well too late, the secret is out! I am having the same problem now with 9100miles. I will take it to the dealer sometime this week. The car pulls to the right and inside tires are feathering. There should be a recall on this....
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Old 02-25-2003, 07:00 AM
  #42  
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My dealer replaced tires and realigned....I have 6500 miles...this was done for 3 other owners at the same dealership...I hate to hear that the problem came back at 9300...something to keep an eye on...a downer for an otherwise great driving experience.
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Old 02-25-2003, 07:13 AM
  #43  
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Default Tires, etc.

A question to those that have discussed the problem with dealers or Nissan directly. Is the feeling that all cars are effected or cars manufactured before a certain date? I thought that I remembered someone posting that it was for cars manufactured before 9/03 but I can't find the post. OR, I may have been dreaming I will be bringing mine into the dealership for an oil change and will request to have the following items checked/fixed:

1) Alignment
2) Streaks on windows.
3) Lingering water long after wash. Seen when window is operated.
4) Driver seat instability.

I haven't seen the tire problem yet, but will request that they check anyway. I have experienced the other problems.

Fuzzwart
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Old 02-27-2003, 09:36 PM
  #44  
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Default They didn't replace my tires...

I brought mine into the dealer for this problem, with severe tire feathering (or "cupping" as the service advisor called it) at 9,300 miles.

He said Nissan only authorized them to "cross-rotate" the tires -- dismount and remount on opposite rims -- as well as set the alignment.

You guys are talking about the dealer acting like they were doing you a favor by giving you a new set of tires. Mine acted like I was lucky to get a free alignment ("just one alignment for free") and basically suggested that if the tires are too worn, it's because they are a soft compound and there's not much they can do about it.

The noise has greatly improved, to the point where I probably wouldn't notice it if I didn't know what I was listening for. So I am not sure if I want to go back and push for a new set of tires, or just run these for a few thousand more miles then buy better ones.

If the alignment was really corrected so that this won't happen again, I'm reasonably satisfied with the outcome. But if it happens again -- especially after I get new tires on my own dime -- I will be mighty pissed!
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Old 02-28-2003, 04:17 AM
  #45  
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Default Re: They didn't replace my tires...

Originally posted by z350z
I brought mine into the dealer for this problem, with severe tire feathering (or "cupping" as the service advisor called it) at 9,300 miles.

He said Nissan only authorized them to "cross-rotate" the tires -- dismount and remount on opposite rims -- as well as set the alignment.

You guys are talking about the dealer acting like they were doing you a favor by giving you a new set of tires. Mine acted like I was lucky to get a free alignment ("just one alignment for free") and basically suggested that if the tires are too worn, it's because they are a soft compound and there's not much they can do about it.

The noise has greatly improved, to the point where I probably wouldn't notice it if I didn't know what I was listening for. So I am not sure if I want to go back and push for a new set of tires, or just run these for a few thousand more miles then buy better ones.

If the alignment was really corrected so that this won't happen again, I'm reasonably satisfied with the outcome. But if it happens again -- especially after I get new tires on my own dime -- I will be mighty pissed!
Z350Z, I think your experience will be typical of most of us at this stage of odometer reading. Nissan may or may not have a problem, but if it is widespread, they will not be giving away free tires to everyone. I think that only by running the swapped tires further will you know if the problem is solved or not. Tire feathering is usually (note adjective!) caused by camber which is not adjustable on this car. The alignment only corrected toe-in, so running the tires further will indicate clearly whether the overall alignment is correct on the car or not. Please let us know on the board if the noise increases or comes back. Right now, I am leaning towards buying a camber adjustment kit should other's experiences indicate a recurrence of the problem after dealer alignment. I, like you, would hate to see tires I paid for show premature wear due to feathering. Thanks for the update.
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Old 02-28-2003, 05:53 AM
  #46  
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Default Response to ChinaClipper's post

You are right that we will have to fight for new tires. I am doing that now. Wake up people this is a defect from the factory and Nissan needs to take care of it. Squeeky wheel gets the grease.

Now, as for alignment and tire wear. ChinaClipper was right in saying that too much negative camber can cause fast wear on the inside tire edge. However, most Z's are seeing cupping or scallopping and not just wear. Cupping is most often caused by incorrect toe settings.

I took my car in due to tire cupping and found that the toe alignment to be way out of spec. Basically my front left tire was 375% out of the spec limits, front right was 150%, rear left was 12%, and rear right was 212%. Yes my rear tires were wearing badly too. These were toe settings. Everything else was well within Nissan spec limits.

Now according to the Nissan alignment specs the front camber spec range is only -1.33 to 0.17 degrees. Even if your tire was running at -1.33 that is not enough negative camber to cause this kind of wear. Generally you will not see issues like this until you get over 2.0-2.5 degrees of negative camber.

Bottom line is get the alignment of your Z checked and don't let them push you around saying it is caused by soft rubber or they are performance tires -- BullCRAP. As an example my front left tires (the worst of the bunch) for toe settings measured at 0.15 degrees. Spec is 0.0-0.04 degrees. My dealer is like gee that is just barely out of spec and would not cause tire wear. I asked what kind of "Fuzzy" math you are using. That is 375% out of Spec buddy. Freakin Huge!

Sorry for the ramble, this issue has got my going.
Ja
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Old 02-28-2003, 06:15 AM
  #47  
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Last edited by jelledge; 02-28-2003 at 07:04 AM.
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Old 02-28-2003, 06:30 AM
  #48  
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You guys have caster problems, not toe-in/out problems. You can see the abnormal wear in all the pictures posted. I had a civic I use to auto-X and I was trying all sorts of settings and learned how each affected tire wear. Althogh turn-in was better with positive caster, tire wear will happen much faster.

You'll probably laugh, but I use to race on-road RC cars and that was also very helpful guide for raeding tire wear and making adjustments to maximize handling.

The fix could be as simple as adding spacers to the points in which your upper control arms are mounted. Gotta push the top of the tire out to even the wear.
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Old 02-28-2003, 06:37 AM
  #49  
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Default Can you explain how caster affects tire wear

EG1, can you tell us why the caster would cause this problem? How does the caster affect tire wear. I thought caster was mainly a problem dealing with turn in and overall straight line stability of the car.

Any ideas what a more reasonable caster angle would be?
The front caster spec for the Z is 7.42 - 8.92 degrees.

thanks,
Ja
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Old 02-28-2003, 07:48 AM
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Picture your tire sitting on your garage floor. Lets pretend it's the RF. From the very top, if you tip the tire to the right, you'll get premature wear on the outside. Tip it to the left(which is what seems to be the Z's issue) and you'll get premature wear on the inside.

Ever see the ricer with his 3-4 inch drop. The top of his tires seem to point in toward the car...guess where his tires will start to feather...
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Old 02-28-2003, 07:52 AM
  #51  
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Default Ahh you mean Camber

What you described is camber of the tire and not caster. Camber is the angle (from vertical) that the tire makes.

Caster is the steering axis angle relative to the suspension.

I agree that Camber can cause this wear, but I don't think camber would cause the cupping we are seeing, especially when our camber specs on the front are less then -2.0 degrees.

The ricers you see with the massive negative camber are running something like negative 2.5 to 3 degrees.
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Old 02-28-2003, 08:23 AM
  #52  
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Default New Tires from Nissan

Ahhhh, squeeky wheel indeed. Nissan has authorized new tires for my Z. Hopefully since the alignment is all within specs now the tires will last more then 6k miles.

I'll keep the thread updated on how the new tires perform with the correct alignment.
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Old 02-28-2003, 08:31 AM
  #53  
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LMAO, your right. When my dad and I have conversations about this topic I ALWAYS say caster instead of camber. Sorry for the confusion. I don't know why i always do this...
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Old 02-28-2003, 02:14 PM
  #54  
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Well, I just went and spent a good deal of time inspecting my tires. I not only have the problem on the inside, but also on the outside. Anyone noticing this? It's worse on the inside, but is evident on the outside too.

Are other people who've replaced their tires with another type having this problem? I'm sure they are, but it'd be interesting to see if they have similar wear characteristics...

Last edited by John; 02-28-2003 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 02-28-2003, 08:32 PM
  #55  
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Originally posted by Hedonist
Well, I just went and spent a good deal of time inspecting my tires. I not only have the problem on the inside, but also on the outside. Anyone noticing this? It's worse on the inside, but is evident on the outside too.

Are other people who've replaced their tires with another type having this problem? I'm sure they are, but it'd be interesting to see if they have similar wear characteristics...
Mine were beginning to feather on the outside edges at 1600 miles. What psi do you have in the tires? Nissan recs 35 cold in all 4. You may be experiencing alignment AND underinflation. If its worse on the inside than the outside, alignment is a suspect, if its worn less on the outside, it may be underinflated too. You should take it to your dealer ASAP before it gets worse. I would check the psi now, I don't think it should be under 32psi cold, IMO. You could talk to a Bridgestone dealer too.
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Old 02-28-2003, 08:45 PM
  #56  
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Default Re: Re: They didn't replace my tires...

Originally posted by ChinaClipper
Z350Z, I think your experience will be typical of most of us at this stage of odometer reading. Nissan may or may not have a problem, but if it is widespread, they will not be giving away free tires to everyone. I think that only by running the swapped tires further will you know if the problem is solved or not. Tire feathering is usually (note adjective!) caused by camber which is not adjustable on this car. The alignment only corrected toe-in, so running the tires further will indicate clearly whether the overall alignment is correct on the car or not. Please let us know on the board if the noise increases or comes back. Right now, I am leaning towards buying a camber adjustment kit should other's experiences indicate a recurrence of the problem after dealer alignment. I, like you, would hate to see tires I paid for show premature wear due to feathering. Thanks for the update.
Can you recommend a vendor for the camber kit? Prices too, maybe? Thanks, Boomer
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Old 02-28-2003, 08:49 PM
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uneven wear will occur with out of spec camber settings, feathering or "scrub" is a toe angle problem.
I run 1.5 neg with a touch of toe-in to offset the wear on the inside, but I do not get tire scrub.
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Old 03-01-2003, 04:46 AM
  #58  
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Default Re:

Originally posted by Boomer
Can you recommend a vendor for the camber kit? Prices too, maybe? Thanks, Boomer
JIC front adjustable camber plates - $500.00
Available from www.avalonracing.net
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Old 03-01-2003, 05:14 AM
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Default Re: Re:

Originally posted by ChinaClipper
JIC front adjustable camber plates - $500.00
Available from www.avalonracing.net
Thank you,Boomer
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Old 03-02-2003, 12:12 AM
  #60  
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i believe the feathering effects Zs built on and before september 18.
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