MonkeyBoy

Vins beginning with a 0 have the side airbags.

xxx100001 -- no airbags
xxx000001 -- airbags

phile

That would make more sense, considering I have side airbags

SO jmark, you don't have side airbags?

Grey Matter

Does anyone have a copy of the TSB that they can post? It would be easier to show my dealer a copy of the TSB rather then just the information.

jmark

iTrader: (1)

Thanks JimH just the pic I was looking for. Now for one with a later build date. Phile I don't have side air bags.

Boomer

OK, I went to my dealer today and talked to my Service Writer. I explained the problem all of the owners have been having, showed him the TSB about the tire problem and gave him the contents of this thread. He took both documents and said he would take up the issue with his regional rep and try to get to the FIX we've been screaming for months.

I had already put in my service file 2 months ago about the beginning of feathering of the 040s at 1600 miles that my installer of my new tires pointed out to me. I went straight to my dealer and my Service Writer the next morning for an alignment.

He is also the ***'t Service Manager and has won awards for best Service Writer in this Region for 5 years running. He's great and smart, well respected and a man of his word. I told him to call me when he met with his Regional Rep and I would meet with the two of them if he thought it would be helpful.

This is the sort of relationship owners need to cultivate with their service writers at the dealerships. THEY are not NISSAN, they are independent franchise operators only. Sales tactics good or bad, your Service Department is your friend, if you can get along w/them, you are ahead of the game.

Enough, I also called and left a message with Steve, who IS Nissan, and left my 3rd message about the ride and bouncing, and asked it be placed in my file. I have not received a call back from him yet on each of my calls. I did my jobs today, how about you?

Numbers move corporations, cars, parts, dollars,yen and COMPLAINTS. Update your files boys and girls, open a file if you don't have one, inform your dealer, NNA, Regional offices and any other source you deem appropriate. Be proactive and NICE, polite but firm, don't scream lawsuit unless you've exhausted everything else. If you file a lawsuit, only your lawyer can talk to their lawyer and you're FIX may be a long time coming, if ever.

Boomer--awake and moving in Oklahoma.

krinkov

BINGO!!!!!!

Well this clears up alot! even with an overal lower spring rate , a linear rate spring is going to give a harsher ride than a progressive rate spring, even one with a higher overall rate. This is why matching shock firmness on linears is so critical. It makes perfect sense though why the overal stiffer Eibachs would still perform better on stock struts

lEtMeZ1

So does this mean that the Eibachs would help the problem or not? From what I understand it won't?

slaponte

iTrader: (2)

Lets see if I am learning something here!

The Eibachs are progressive (meaning different rate of stiffness as it compresses, right)? So, even do at some point of the curve they might be softer, overall they are stiffer. Stiffer meaning less bounce, which stock struts can handle, ergo, the Eibachs HELP solve the problem (might not eliminate it 100%, but are a step in the right direction).

Did I get it??

The only question I have is, how much did the Eibachs drop the car, JimH??

Krinkov : progressive springs give better handling, right? If the OEMs are not progressive before Dec 2003, the post-december most probably aren't either, are they?

What I am trying to figure out is if Nissan offers to replace the springs to post-december, am I better of (handleing wise) with after market springs anyway, so go ahead and bite the bullet and get the better springs and forget Nissan, because either pre or post-december ones won't be that good anyway.

I hope I made sense.

Apexi350z

iTrader: (3)

in my opinion, I don't think NNA will replace our springs.... it's not confirmed that by changing the springs, it will solve the feathering problem.. if it is, then they will probably replace it.

I don't know any mfg has progressive springs on their original mfg. cars. The new springs maybe same linear springs with softer spring rate? not sure.. lots of questions, need more answers!!

If Eibach comes with a spring that doesn't drop more than 0.5" front and back, I think I will just go for it.....just to get rid of the bouncy ride... but still not sure if it will solve the tire feathering problem...

krinkov

Your right on track, progressive rate springs have a lower initial spring rate that gets "progressively" firmer the more they are compressed, this allows for a more comfortable ride at low compresion, where street car springs spend about 90% of their life. Linear springs are the same rate at all levels of compression, therefore they are always at their maximum rate, even when your just driving down a straight road at 5 mph.

As for performance, well the short answer is no, progressive rates are not ideal for absolute performance, all race cars use linear rate springs, they dont need a "comfort Zone" on the race track. But for the street progressive rate springs are almost always ideal, the other nice thing about progressives is that you can now use an even higher spring rate at deeper compressions than the linears. Also shock setting is not quite as critical with progressives since it has a spring rate range and setting a shock adjustment inside this range is much easier than with the linear rates single range(the linear rates advantage here is the ability to get a shock setting perfectly matched to the spring at all levels of compression) hope that clears it up

phile

In short, performance is sacrificed with progressive springs

rodH

iTrader: (2)

since the overall rate of the Eibach is STIFFER than the stock, it would make it worse for this problem.

I do NOT think the Eibachs would be the answer, they could cause mORE bounce.

slaponte

iTrader: (2)

Old dog here.

Back to me. Since I am non-track all street, progressive would work better for me, as soon as I can find the right struts to match. Per what I read in another thread, the stock struts might/are not the right ones for the Eibachs. Also, any drop beyond 0.5" is too much, I rather have 0" drop.

I shall wait around and see what develops.

Ready for some computer terminal logic? Your logic for why linears are better for racing does not compute, says Sergio without ever having placed a foot on a racetrack. Isn't this country great?

Why : Since a racetrack (road course) is not straight, it would seem that different rates of spring would apply better to changing conditions in the track. The fact that you can match damping to your spring linearly seems good, but a compromise at any given point of the course, no?

I am sure you are right, I just didn't follow the logic of why. But thats ok, I am too old...

krinkov

Actually, the initial rate of the eibachs is most certainly softer than the stock springs(assuming the stocks are linear as they appear) this would definitly be an improvment even with the stock struts. The "bounce" that people are experiencing is at low compressions, this is where the eibachs are softer and therefore better matched to the stock struts. Even though they get stiffer than the stock springs as they compress more, the amount of compression they would require to have an oversprung condition would be a level you would get to probably only 10% of the time you are driving, whereas the stock linears are oversprung and bouncy 100% of the time Idealy you would also use a heavier strut with the eibachs to take advantage of their higher spring rate for those times you do get into the 10% but for the here and now a progressive rate spring on the stock struts might go a long way in taming the bounce and feather people are getting just driving everyday on the freeway.

I have a spring compression rate tester here atthe shop, if theres anyone in the bay area that has some stock springs off their car they wouldnt mind letting me borrow I would be interested to see what they are set at and compare them to the new part# springs

krinkov

Its really quite simple, racetacks are unbelivable smooth and compliant. the only real changes are curves and banks, the suspension travels very little and are design to operate in a very short window of compression. Car manufacturers have to design street car suspensions to operate in a much larger range of conditions, if all we ever did with our Zs was drive them on completely flat freeways and we didnt care about personal comfort we would also have very stiff linear rate suspensions as well.

Boomer

Excellent idea, k. Are the any progressive springs out there that don't drop your ride height? An ideal solution for me would be Nissan's replacement springs be progressive and, if the OE shocks work well, keep them. On the other hand, if the OE shocks are not so good, then buy a set of premium adjustable shock like Koni, Bilstein, Tokiko, etc. I think you would have a comfortable ride and great handling.

I have a very specific reason for wanting to maintain the stock ride height; less camber change and less tire wear. Dropping the ride height will change the camber angle and your tires will not last as long. A plus, though, is that your car will handle a bit better with a bit more camber, right? If you decided your handling wasn't good enough with stock springs and adjustable shocks, buy a set of Eibachs and get better handling with some wear penalty, like 5-10,000 miles on a 40,000 mile tire. You could handle that, it would mean you replace tires 6-12 months early on a tire that would normally give you 3-4 years of service. It would be worth it for me. Its a sports car, right? What do you guys think? Am I making sense or not?

krinkov

thats exactly right, the added handling bonus of the negative camber is penalized by accelrated inside tire wear, if you keep on top of them and keep the insides fliped to the outsides as they wear you can get pretty decent milage out of a set, its your choice. if you do want to run the eibachs without lowering you will have to make some sort of spacer to sit on the spring pearch.

jmark

iTrader: (1)

As JimH has stated the Eibachs pretty much cure the bounce. He is one of the ones who have installed the Eibachs already. The really interesting thing to me is that NISMO's suspension kit uses progressive springs also.........

Boomer

Progressive springs are better for daily driving, but most manufacturers use cheaper linear springs. NISMO's springs compete with more expensive aftermarket springs, so they use progressive springs. NISMO's suspension is also about the same price as others to cash in on the SEMA aftermarket. A year or two ago, estimates were earnings of $4 Billion. Nissan wants to cash in on that market, hence NISMO parts. I still contend NISMO parts should have been an option on our Zs. Fans that we are, they would have been my choice over the stock suspension, but they were too slow to get them ready for us.

Boomer

Look for shagz's post on 3/20. It has the TSB he got from his dealer.