woogemooge

Hi...I have a Z with many many problems, and I was wondering how I would go about starting the arbitration process. I have/had the following problems:

- grease streaks (fixed)
- pulling to the right (fixed)
- interior rattles (fixed)
- rattling driver's/passenger's windows (took it in for fix 4 times; fixed 2 times, could not reproduce 2 times; the problem is now back...if i go in again, it'll be 3rd fix)
- tire feathering (TSB done once; noise came back, so front tires replaced once; noise is back again, took car in for another service, dealer refused to fix it)

Do you guys think I have a case for arbitration IF my window rattle comes back for a fourth time? If so, how do I go about starting the process?

Thanks!

woogemooge

i'm in the SF bay area fyi, and also does it help to hire an attorney? (if it's on a contingency basis, will i have to give them a portion of the buy-back amount that nissan gives me?)

woogemooge

bump...need help badly!!

jelledge

Okay first thing is make sure you understand the difference between arbitration and lemon law filing.

Start by going the BBB website and click on the autoline link. This has a lot of information about arbitration rules and requirements. They also have links for lemon laws for your state which vary widely.

You can start an arbitration case for anything at any time when the car is under certain mileage and age restrictions. You are ok.
You DO NOT need a lawyer as the setting is fairly informal and has simple rules. However you may have a lawyer if you wish and bring witnesses also. If you plan to do arbitration yourself like I did, you need to be well organized and thought out for what to say and how to present your case.

For myself, I spent about 3 weeks collecting various print articles about the 350Z tire problems, taking digital pics of my tire problems and "borrowing" pictures of other people's tire problems posted on the web. I then spent some time getting well educated about suspension and alignment and researching the issue. Bascially I did what a lawyer would do for you. You will also need all of your repair work orders from the dealership(s), maintenance records, and write down the gist of conversations that took place between Nissan Consumer Affairs and yourself as well as dealership.

Now lemon law is much more demanding and strict about how many times a repair attempt has to be made, etc. Generally you want a lawyer for lemon law. The same type of information and materials are presented as in arbitration, but since it is in a court room you want a lawyer with lemon law experience to know how and what to present for a good case. Keep in mind also that in some states the lemon laws are very powerful for the consumer and help alot, and in other like mine they suck.

Also, if you cannot find a lemon law lawyer call the state attorney general's office and they can give you a referral.


Now, in order to really get yor ducks in a row for arbitration or lemon law you will need to give Nissan several attempts to fix the car and show that they either deny there is a problem and will not do anything or that they tried to fix the problem and it came back. Everything must be documented and take lots of pictures of your tires for evidence in case Nissan changes them out.


Well, that should get you started.....

woogemooge

thanks a lot for your help...it seems like arbitration is a lot harder than i thought it was if i decide to go to arbitration with the window rattles, will they scoff at how small the problem is, or is window rattle a legitimate problem for arbitration?

jelledge

Well you can certainly goto arbitration for window rattles. Hell you can arbitrate anything.

Bascially you will have a couple of choices:
1. Goto arbitration to force Nissan fix the problem or maybe otherwise replace the entire freaking door.

2. Goto arbitration to force Nissan to buy back the car.

Personally I would not goto arbitration and get rid of a car just for window rattles (I would fix it myself), but if it is really that big of an issue then by all means the system is there for you to use. Certainly other people have had cars bought back for much less. Go read some of the Lexus forums. Man those people ***** about getting a car bought back because a squeeks and rattles.

I would however pursue the tire feathering issue further.

woogemooge

Yeah, the window rattles are really bugging me, and the fact that i have feathering tires doesn't help it. I want to pursue arbitration based on those two recurring problems--and I think those are big enough problems--but I guess being unfamiliar with the process, I'm trying to get all your ppl's help...

i read through the BBB website, and it seems like i need careful documentation & "evidence" regarding the problems, but what can I present? I have all the service records but that's about it.... What else can I use to strengthen my case? I know you used some articles for feathering...

anyway, thanks for all your help, and please do let us know the outcome of your feathering arbitration.

jelledge

Just approach this like a court room case. Here are some steps to follow:

1. Explain what the problem(s) are with the car and show pictures whenever possible. There are some good tire feathering pics out there and I can send you mine if need it as well.
Show TSB's related to the problem(s) to show that Nissan is aware of the issues but has no good fix.

2. Explain how these problems affect the resale value of the car, safety (tire related traction), and general enjoyment of the car. I also stated that I wasn't able to make any modifications to say the suspension because I knew Nissan would say it caused the problems.

3. Show the service records for attempts that Nissan made to get the problem fixed and results. Present conversations you had with Local dealerships and anyone else involved with Nissan. I also showed all the bad information the dealerships were telling me and how Nissan was simply dodging responsbility.

Okay now that is the bread and butter of the case, but to be over the top you need more. Here is what I did:

4. I showed that many many other Z's have this problem. I presented a portion of the tire feathering thread (1200+ printed pages long), articles from auto week and motorweek saying they had the same issue. So this helps to show that your car is not some fluke and this is a wide spread problem. NOTE: do to the large number of "bad" posts on internet forums that contain wrong is irrelevant information, do not use this as evidence to show explanations for problems. ONLY use this to show that others are having problems over and over again.

5. I presented several articles from tire companies talking about abnormal tire wear and what can cause it. I did not specifically try to explain the cause, but rather present some plausible explanations that the problem is related to suspension and alignment and not something like driving style or the tires, etc.

6. I also brought with me several articles relating to what the various alignment settings mean like toe, caster, camber and the effects this has on tires. The tire company and sellers websites are good for this.

Well that's about it. It took me about 1 hour to present all this info. It was funny as hell when it was the Nissan rep's turn to present he just let out this sigh of disgust and had no real response. I think I just buried him in data that he could not deny.

woogemooge

hahaha awesome! that's for your help...yeah any pictures or digital files you have, i would really appreciate if you don't mind sharing with me (if it's not too much hassle for you, of course)...i'll pm you my e-mail address (don't want my email picked up by spammer bots).

anyway, thanks for your help again...