Z Club of Houston Car Show
09-26-2007 | 12:28 PM
#61
Wow, this thread got "touchy"
Sorry we won't see you there this year George. As for me, I'm still undecided. More than like I'll be there.
As for the judges touching the car, I wasn't a fan of this either. If panels are closed, then judges don't need to open them because in my opinion the owner "didn't want" it opened. Not to say that they are hiding anything but if a judge is knowledgable about a car then why do you need to see inside a glove box that has nothing in it. If I rememer right, all Z's came w/ the same glove boxes and compartments from the factory, what's the point of looking through 10 350z's w/ the same glove box. I can see if judges wanna see if everthing works on a "restored" car, but that shouldn't apply to the 350z, cause they haven't been restored, just modified. I feel like the judges are using the same standards to judge new, modified 350z's as they would a restored 240Z where you would wanna see how well it was restored or maintained.
Other than that, last year was a really cool car show. Good people, good food, great hosts, free t-shirts and great atmosphere for Z enthusiasts.
Sorry we won't see you there this year George. As for me, I'm still undecided. More than like I'll be there.
As for the judges touching the car, I wasn't a fan of this either. If panels are closed, then judges don't need to open them because in my opinion the owner "didn't want" it opened. Not to say that they are hiding anything but if a judge is knowledgable about a car then why do you need to see inside a glove box that has nothing in it. If I rememer right, all Z's came w/ the same glove boxes and compartments from the factory, what's the point of looking through 10 350z's w/ the same glove box. I can see if judges wanna see if everthing works on a "restored" car, but that shouldn't apply to the 350z, cause they haven't been restored, just modified. I feel like the judges are using the same standards to judge new, modified 350z's as they would a restored 240Z where you would wanna see how well it was restored or maintained.
Other than that, last year was a really cool car show. Good people, good food, great hosts, free t-shirts and great atmosphere for Z enthusiasts.
09-26-2007 | 12:29 PM
#62
Originally Posted by stogey420time
That's right if i remeber that the white Z equipped with all the nismO specs decal, seats (love'em), kit, rims etc. won 
but it was a nice looking Z though
but it was a nice looking Z though
09-26-2007 | 07:39 PM
#64
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: Pearland
Okay, it's time that I chime in here...
Don't take this as me being rude- I'm just laying it out like it is. There's lots of misinformation going around and I'm going to nip it in the bud.
1. Those of you that think we're a bunch of n00bs posting some tiny show for the first time are mistaken. The Z Club of Houston is the third oldest Z club in the country, and has been around since 1974. We are also a founding member of the Z Car Club Association (ZCCA).
2. I was one of the judges last year that was "climbing all over the cars" during the judging. Every care was taken not to leave a mark on any vehicle that was touched during judging. Remember we have cars too and feel the same way as you do about your cars- we don't want someone else breaking stuff, so we don't do it to them. see below as well on WHY we were touching the cars.
3. Judging issues.. You guys are used to HIN-type rules. the ZCCA goes by a totally, COMPLETELY different standard.
The entire car is checked over for cleanliness and condition- this is the key to winning in our shows. ZCCA rules don't care if your car put down 800hp at the last dyno day or runs a 10.5 in the 1/4. what we DO care about is that the install is done right and the parts are clean and in good condition. a 1000hp engine can and routinely does lose to a less modified one competing in the same class because the built engine was covered in grime and seeping oil from the valve covers, oil return lines, etc. you get my point.
As for the compartments on the car mentioned in previous posts.. Standard practice is for the competitors to open ALL compartments before the judges get there- on a 350Z that includes both doors, hood, trunk/hatch, battery, brake master cylinder, gas flap, as well as the glovebox. If the compartment is not opened, the competitor receives a score of zero for that component.
According to the ZCCA rules, the only items that should be in those compartments are the items that came from the factory. i.e. owner's manuals, toolkits, jack, and the like. So if your glove box is full of CDs, receipts, condoms, and paper napkins, then you will get counted off. That's the rules. don't complain after the fact if you came to our show and didn't know how to play by our rules.
in the case of the guys complaining about their cars being opened and beat on and manhandled, EVERY part was treated with care and we did everything we could not to leave a fingerprint. if these guys had looked a bit more closely, they might have noticed me using the inside of my shirt to wipe a couple fingerprints and a drop of sweat off the door sill of one certain blue turbocharged 350z.
also during the judging, the judges looked around for the vehicle owners to ask them to open the compartments before touching any of them. Many of the owners were unable to be found, so the judges discussed it and agreed that it would be acceptable to open these compartments as long as they didn't appear broken or locked. (one person's glovebox was locked. okay. we just gave them a 0 score for the glovebox and got reamed for it later).
4. Classification issues... some cars were reclassed last year because we wound up with something like 15 cars in DD class and only one each in the stock and modified classes. some cars were reclassified to a more appropriate class in an order to make it more fair to the cars that truly are stock or daily drivers. we also had $1500 in trophies with 1st and 2nd place stamps on them to give out for the show, so it was only smart to rearrange the cars to give away said trophies.
I don't feel any cars were unfairly reclassed into a position where they were not competitive.
more people would have gone away mad had we only given out 6 of the 40 trophies and they not gotten anything while there was a pile of stuff left on the table.
5. The Nismo 350 that was there last year was NOT simply assembled by a dealer and purchased outright. It was FAR from stock, and most of the parts on it were JDM- all the way down tot he Bride seats. It was indeed purchased just a couple days before, but the car was originally bought stock and then modified by a previous owner. The owner then decided he didn't want it, so he traded it in to a dealership in St Louis. As for the scores it received, the mods didn't cause the car to win. the cleanliness of the car is what gave it the high scores it got. whether it was detailed by the owner or the dealership doesn't matter.
Also keep in mind the owner of that car also entered a black Z32 in the show, which wound up winning best of show... again because of its extreme cleanliness. (note a trend here?)
All of that said, we will be doing things differently this year. Judges will be instructed not to open any compartment on any vehicle unless it is their own. If it's not open, the competitor will receive a zero score.
The other side of that coin is that competitors need to know the rules of the event and have their cars ready to show when the judges come up. Last year, there were lots of new people showing their cars, and they were unfamiliar with our rules.
The judges are tight on time to get things done, and don't have time to wait around to find a car owner that left their doors or hood closed. If you're not there, we'll give it a zero and move on. Simple as that.
Again, don't take any of this as me trying to be an *******. people are jumping to conclusions about how things are and should be done when they're not familiar with our rules and operating procedures. As a competitor, YOU have a responsibility to know the rules before you go into something and you need to compete within those rules. To help you out, here's the link to the ZCCA official rules. http://zcca.org/downloads/JudgingRules_rev2002.pdf (note the requirements for Daily Driver class, which many of the cars that tried to enter DD last year did not meet the mileage requirement).
We as judges may have overstepped our bounds so to speak by opening battery covers and whatnot, but it was done with the intent of helping the competitor obtain better scores and keep the judging equal between cars.
All that said, I hope you guys can see our perspective and realize we're not perfect either. last year was my first year to run the event, and I was a bit overwhelmed. This year will be different. I hope to see everyone again this year, whether you decide to show your car or not.
- Matt Blehm
President, Z Club of Houston
Don't take this as me being rude- I'm just laying it out like it is. There's lots of misinformation going around and I'm going to nip it in the bud.
1. Those of you that think we're a bunch of n00bs posting some tiny show for the first time are mistaken. The Z Club of Houston is the third oldest Z club in the country, and has been around since 1974. We are also a founding member of the Z Car Club Association (ZCCA).
2. I was one of the judges last year that was "climbing all over the cars" during the judging. Every care was taken not to leave a mark on any vehicle that was touched during judging. Remember we have cars too and feel the same way as you do about your cars- we don't want someone else breaking stuff, so we don't do it to them. see below as well on WHY we were touching the cars.
3. Judging issues.. You guys are used to HIN-type rules. the ZCCA goes by a totally, COMPLETELY different standard.
The entire car is checked over for cleanliness and condition- this is the key to winning in our shows. ZCCA rules don't care if your car put down 800hp at the last dyno day or runs a 10.5 in the 1/4. what we DO care about is that the install is done right and the parts are clean and in good condition. a 1000hp engine can and routinely does lose to a less modified one competing in the same class because the built engine was covered in grime and seeping oil from the valve covers, oil return lines, etc. you get my point.
As for the compartments on the car mentioned in previous posts.. Standard practice is for the competitors to open ALL compartments before the judges get there- on a 350Z that includes both doors, hood, trunk/hatch, battery, brake master cylinder, gas flap, as well as the glovebox. If the compartment is not opened, the competitor receives a score of zero for that component.
According to the ZCCA rules, the only items that should be in those compartments are the items that came from the factory. i.e. owner's manuals, toolkits, jack, and the like. So if your glove box is full of CDs, receipts, condoms, and paper napkins, then you will get counted off. That's the rules. don't complain after the fact if you came to our show and didn't know how to play by our rules.
in the case of the guys complaining about their cars being opened and beat on and manhandled, EVERY part was treated with care and we did everything we could not to leave a fingerprint. if these guys had looked a bit more closely, they might have noticed me using the inside of my shirt to wipe a couple fingerprints and a drop of sweat off the door sill of one certain blue turbocharged 350z.
also during the judging, the judges looked around for the vehicle owners to ask them to open the compartments before touching any of them. Many of the owners were unable to be found, so the judges discussed it and agreed that it would be acceptable to open these compartments as long as they didn't appear broken or locked. (one person's glovebox was locked. okay. we just gave them a 0 score for the glovebox and got reamed for it later).
4. Classification issues... some cars were reclassed last year because we wound up with something like 15 cars in DD class and only one each in the stock and modified classes. some cars were reclassified to a more appropriate class in an order to make it more fair to the cars that truly are stock or daily drivers. we also had $1500 in trophies with 1st and 2nd place stamps on them to give out for the show, so it was only smart to rearrange the cars to give away said trophies.
I don't feel any cars were unfairly reclassed into a position where they were not competitive.
more people would have gone away mad had we only given out 6 of the 40 trophies and they not gotten anything while there was a pile of stuff left on the table.
5. The Nismo 350 that was there last year was NOT simply assembled by a dealer and purchased outright. It was FAR from stock, and most of the parts on it were JDM- all the way down tot he Bride seats. It was indeed purchased just a couple days before, but the car was originally bought stock and then modified by a previous owner. The owner then decided he didn't want it, so he traded it in to a dealership in St Louis. As for the scores it received, the mods didn't cause the car to win. the cleanliness of the car is what gave it the high scores it got. whether it was detailed by the owner or the dealership doesn't matter.
Also keep in mind the owner of that car also entered a black Z32 in the show, which wound up winning best of show... again because of its extreme cleanliness. (note a trend here?)
All of that said, we will be doing things differently this year. Judges will be instructed not to open any compartment on any vehicle unless it is their own. If it's not open, the competitor will receive a zero score.
The other side of that coin is that competitors need to know the rules of the event and have their cars ready to show when the judges come up. Last year, there were lots of new people showing their cars, and they were unfamiliar with our rules.
The judges are tight on time to get things done, and don't have time to wait around to find a car owner that left their doors or hood closed. If you're not there, we'll give it a zero and move on. Simple as that.
Again, don't take any of this as me trying to be an *******. people are jumping to conclusions about how things are and should be done when they're not familiar with our rules and operating procedures. As a competitor, YOU have a responsibility to know the rules before you go into something and you need to compete within those rules. To help you out, here's the link to the ZCCA official rules. http://zcca.org/downloads/JudgingRules_rev2002.pdf (note the requirements for Daily Driver class, which many of the cars that tried to enter DD last year did not meet the mileage requirement).
We as judges may have overstepped our bounds so to speak by opening battery covers and whatnot, but it was done with the intent of helping the competitor obtain better scores and keep the judging equal between cars.
All that said, I hope you guys can see our perspective and realize we're not perfect either. last year was my first year to run the event, and I was a bit overwhelmed. This year will be different. I hope to see everyone again this year, whether you decide to show your car or not.
- Matt Blehm
President, Z Club of Houston
Last edited by Matt93SE; 09-26-2007 at 07:47 PM.
09-26-2007 | 09:29 PM
#65
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: Houston
thanks for replying to this thread matt...one other thing matt forgot to mention: this year we will have a brief pre-show meeting with the judges and competitors to clarify everything
the paypal address has been verified to work, please be sure to send it to the right email address...
now that everything has been clarified, lets just have some Z fun at show
the paypal address has been verified to work, please be sure to send it to the right email address...
now that everything has been clarified, lets just have some Z fun at show
09-27-2007 | 04:14 AM
#66
I went back and forth on a response for the "misinformation" comment and the assumption that I was the only one to complain (I heard a complaint from EVERY 350Z owner that was parked on the row with me and even some of the spectators). Granted, we did not know all the rules, but then again, they were not posted nor were they available at the show. Attitudes sway people, whether you are just "laying it out" or telling people to "get over it". With all of that being said, good luck and I hope this show is the best ever!
09-27-2007 | 05:17 AM
#68
Originally Posted by TruBluZ
I went back and forth on a response for the "misinformation" comment and the assumption that I was the only one to complain (I heard a complaint from EVERY 350Z owner that was parked on the row with me and even some of the spectators). Granted, we did not know all the rules, but then again, they were not posted nor were they available at the show. Attitudes sway people, whether you are just "laying it out" or telling people to "get over it". With all of that being said, good luck and I hope this show is the best ever!
Matt93SE thanks for your input, hope this year is a success! either way show my z or not i will be there for the z community
09-27-2007 | 05:42 AM
#69
Thread Starter
Registered User
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 442
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From: San Antonio, TX
Nice response Matt. One thing though there are some 350's out there that are DD but do not meet ZCCA mileage rules. How are you guys going to handle that? At the SA show DD cars did not have their engines judged and thus were not eligable for best in show. That certainly swayed some Z owners to enter the modified class.
09-27-2007 | 07:27 AM
#70
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: Pearland
We plan to follow the ZCCA rules in regard to classing with the DDs and stock/modified classes.
I understand that many (most) of these guys drive their 350s daily, but if they don't have at least 75,000 miles, they don't meet the first ZCCA requirement. Unfortunately that's the best way to deal with it- just stick with the printed rules. That way we don't have to try to make up new rules and then try to remember what it was the next year. It's easier to enforce and regulate if its in print.
At one show a while back, I tried to do a 12,000 mile/year average mileage thing, and to be expected, the 6 month old car with 6,000 miles on it wound up winning simply because the car was still essentially new.
also note this clause:
IIRC, most of the cars that wanted to enter DD class last year had something on that list that precluded them from DD status, whether it be a full body kit or even an aftermarket wing (body modification).
We do not judge engine bays for DD class either- that's standard practice for all of our shows. basically the rule with the judges is that if it's not open, it doesn't get judged and gets a 0. Last year we broke that rule with the 350s because none of them had their doors and hoods and etc open, and we were trying NOT to **** off everyone by handing them scoresheets with 50 pts on them and the ugly one on the end winning just because they had everything open. ya win some, ya lose some I guess. can't make everyone happy. we did the best we could, and the aftermath is what you're seeing here.
I understand that many (most) of these guys drive their 350s daily, but if they don't have at least 75,000 miles, they don't meet the first ZCCA requirement. Unfortunately that's the best way to deal with it- just stick with the printed rules. That way we don't have to try to make up new rules and then try to remember what it was the next year. It's easier to enforce and regulate if its in print.
At one show a while back, I tried to do a 12,000 mile/year average mileage thing, and to be expected, the 6 month old car with 6,000 miles on it wound up winning simply because the car was still essentially new.
also note this clause:
DAILY DRIVER
Vehicle must be a daily driver with at least 75,000 driven miles on odometer. The vehicle can be personalized with various add-on items such as: lowering, air dam, fog lights, after market wheels, override bars, after market radio, after market mirrors, after market seats and carpets, after market exhaust, and upholstery. No whale-tails, roll cages, roll bars, flares, hood scoops, body modifications, or add-on body kits are permitted in this class. Stock vehicles can enter this class with mileage criteria.
Vehicle must be a daily driver with at least 75,000 driven miles on odometer. The vehicle can be personalized with various add-on items such as: lowering, air dam, fog lights, after market wheels, override bars, after market radio, after market mirrors, after market seats and carpets, after market exhaust, and upholstery. No whale-tails, roll cages, roll bars, flares, hood scoops, body modifications, or add-on body kits are permitted in this class. Stock vehicles can enter this class with mileage criteria.
We do not judge engine bays for DD class either- that's standard practice for all of our shows. basically the rule with the judges is that if it's not open, it doesn't get judged and gets a 0. Last year we broke that rule with the 350s because none of them had their doors and hoods and etc open, and we were trying NOT to **** off everyone by handing them scoresheets with 50 pts on them and the ugly one on the end winning just because they had everything open. ya win some, ya lose some I guess. can't make everyone happy. we did the best we could, and the aftermath is what you're seeing here.
09-27-2007 | 08:31 AM
#74
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: Pearland
Originally Posted by NISMO133
so if i go....is it free to get in....is there parking thats not for showing cars? might not even take my Z
If you bring your Z and it looks nice, you'll probably be hassled until you park it in with everyone else and show the car. If you don't bring your Z, then you can park in the back 40 next to my ugly old Maxima.
also note we're going to be accepting donations of canned food and non-perishable goods (as well as money) for the Houston Food Bank. We'll be doing that in exchange for raffle tickets for shirts and other giveaways from Sterling McCall and some of our club's sponsors.
Last edited by Matt93SE; 09-27-2007 at 08:33 AM.
09-27-2007 | 02:02 PM
#76
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,733
Likes: 23
From: On a forum dedicated to Boost
Originally Posted by vo7848
My favorite line out of the entire thread.
Next time it's hailing outside, go drive your Z in it, it's not like it's some exotic or anything special...
Next time it's hailing outside, go drive your Z in it, it's not like it's some exotic or anything special...word...I don't care i drive a pinto....its mine and if I cherrish it, I won't want ppl touching my ride after a hard day of cleaning. The Z may not be an exotic, but all the doe I spent on it and the hard work to get the doe makes me appreciate what I have done with my ride. I love my car just as much as a ferrari owner, if not more.
I understand the judges have to check stuff out, but when I'm in someone elses car, I treat it with more respect than my own. That's just me.
09-27-2007 | 02:38 PM
#78
Originally Posted by MethodRN
As for me entering DD, I was just joking.
09-28-2007 | 06:26 AM
#80
Originally Posted by stogey420time
That's right if i remeber that the white Z equipped with all the nismO specs decal, seats (love'em), kit, rims etc. won but it was a nice looking Z though
I thought someone else was going to win it.....but Linds told me, it's all politics - so true.
So with that said: yours is a nismO edition (top) have a good chance of winning and mine is a base (rock bottom) doesn't stand a chance but i don't plan on entering anyways just to spectate.
but it was a nice looking Z thoughI thought someone else was going to win it.....but Linds told me, it's all politics - so true.
So with that said: yours is a nismO edition (top) have a good chance of winning and mine is a base (rock bottom) doesn't stand a chance but i don't plan on entering anyways just to spectate.
