This just took place, Im pretty psyched, eventhough I knew pretty close how the race was going to go.

My car: Performance 6 speed with aftermarket leather, 100% stock, 2k miles on the ODO

I was coming home really late, no traffic and met an old friend who has had a 02 SMG M3 convertible on a traffic light. He has had the car for about 3-6 months now. Ive raced him many times before in the "other" car (IS300 check sig) and walked him pretty badly. Anyways he complimented the Z and started ranting on how I use the "other" car to race and this pretty car just to cruise. I told him that the Z wasnt a monster but that it could hold its ground. He then asked how much HP it had and if it was stock, I told him the car had 250hp and totally stock, the guy didnt know ANYTHING about the Z. The light changed and we slowly rolled in first, I nodded him to punch it and I did also, NEVER have I been in a race that had two cars so damn identical in acceleration, we stayed totally even, TOTALLY, it looked like we werent moving!. I let off at the end of third. The guy was one surprised ****! The first thing he said was, how much $$ is the car, when I told him he couldnt believe it. I asked him to go where we always race, much safer, and he agreed.

2nd race: Roll in 1st gear, even start, couldnt have been better, little spin in second, shifted a little before red line, didnt want to hit the limiter. Dead even 1st, 2nd and third, on fourth we seperated a little, lanes widened up so it was a little difficult to judge distance, the m3 put 1 1/2 car to 5th where we let off.

3rd race: From a dig, 3 honks, I left on the third, he left a little later. I put about a car length on him, he could not catch up until the end of fourth (in the 1/4 mile, he would have LOOOOST)

Now some facts:

M3 SMG convertible: Heavier than the hardtop and 18 less HP. SMG is not as efficient as a 6 speed no matter how fast it may shift gears, from a dig or rolling start it robs more power than the stick. Car had 19 in wheels.

The Z: Had everything, spare and 12 in subwooffer amplified (heavier)

From this experience I can 100% say that its a drivers race between these two cars. I consider myself a good driver, been more than 100 times down the 1/4 (Have 9 sec mustang race car) After 100mph the M3 starts pulling much more than the Z. The best way it to race them is down low in the rev range since the Z has really good throttle response down low (so does the M3 by the way) I know the M3 driver is also good because his a local street racer here and hey, shifting an SMG for about half a year should give him enough practice, and racing from a roll is DAMN easy. A hardtop coupe M3 I know would have put about 2 1/2 to 3 cars on the Z.

My hat goes down to the Z, nothing can match its OVERALL performance for the price. Eventhough the M3 Convertible was a little faster, he was the one who went home sad and confused from the battle.

 

Um.... The M3 convertible SMG has the same HP as the M3 coupe and it should run mid 13's he should have spanked you!

 

i dont know why people think the Z should get spanked. i was at LACR a week ago and there was a SMG hard top E46. his best for the night was 13.9 or so i believe i saw the guy run a 14.++ on the other hand my Zs best was a 14.2 so 0.2 secs really isnt much af a difference. i raced a SMG convertible and i pulled on him ever so slowly at the top of my third and into fourth. the M3 is an over all faster car then the Z but not by much. if you catch an M3 driver slipping you can win without much effort.

Hammad

 

The E46 is a heavy *** car.... a far cry from the E36!

 

Taken from car and driver:

"In fact, the M3 convertible's 13.7-second quarter-mile at 104 mph is 0.3 second and 2 mph in arrears of the closed-roof M3 (June 2001), thanks to the convertible's shocking 398-pound weight gain from its power top and various and sundry reinforcements"

The droptop comes out to a total of 3838lbs. Thats why he didnt spank me

 

Please explain how the SMG system is not efficient? It is the same thing as a 6 speed manual, except with hydraulic actuators operating the clutch and gearshift. The only thing 6MT has that SMG doesnt is the satisfaction of the driver being in more control of the car. There is no mechanical disadvantage.

 

SMG M3 Convrt should still spank a Z.....What program did the driver have the SMG in?

 

Perhaps he means on the start where it is better and more efficient to slip in the clutch. Probably difficult not to bog or get a perfect launch off of an SMG. I don't doubt that in shifting the SMG is probably more efficient then a human at the controls but the starts would suffer some.

That's why Ferrari equiped the Enzo with the same launch controls as their F1 car.

 

Totally believable.

The M3 Verts are dogs, they weight too much and should'nt be drag raced.

In the 1/4 it will be a very tight race between two cars. But in the end, the higher mph of the M3 will show that it has considerbly more power and WILL pull top end.

Good Kil

 

How much HP does the M3 have ???

 

333HP at 7900RPM

262 lb.ft. at 4900RPM

0-60 from BMW's site is 5.4 for the droptop and 4.8 for the coupe, FYI.

 

good race!
i havent had any good races yet.

 

Nice race. I wonder how much slower the vert Z will be when it comes out.

 

Could you explain how SMG would be worse/slower than someone manually rowing the gears? This is the second mention of it in this thread, and the second time I've *ever* heard this.

Dave

 

Car and Driver did a test between the two trans, the SMG was slower in 0-60, 1/4 mile and the car was 5 mph slower in top end compared to the 6 speed.

Ive also seen many Best Motoring videos with japanese drivers driving ferraris 6 speed vs SMG, and M3's. Guess which ones got around the track quicker and which they prefered...

 

Well, I'm not familiar with those sources, but it seems odd that it would be banned in ALMS, and used in Formula-1, if it got you around the track slower. Was there any comment about *why* it was slower? Frankly I can think of absolutely no reason for that to be the case.

Heck, BMW's SMG comes with launch control even.

Dave

 

It is slower because it is heavier.

It will shift faster and more consistent than any human, it will rev match better, and it even has launch control to feather the clutch for optimal traction and power at the start.

The only reason I can think it would be slower is because it adds quite a bit of weight over the standard manual.

Actually, it may have different gearing, so that would affect the performance in some ways as well.

Even so, I think the SMG would be damn fun to drive.

-D'oh!

 

I've never heard that, and can't find any references to differing weights on either BMW or Ferrari's web sites. If you happen to have any pointers to the different weights, I'd be interested in seeing them.

Thanks
Dave

 

I for one totally believe that a new M3 Vert is about even with a Z to about 100mph.

Now lets wait and see how much of a dog the 350Z Vert will be relative to an S2000 and lets start comparing apples to apples. It will be a beautiful car, but probably a 14.5 to 14.7 second car that will get trounced in the twisties.

Even better yet, although it would remove one of the main reasons many people purchased S2000s, I wonder what would happen if a coupe S2000 ever came out.

BUT, Ive got to say, the current 350Z is one dynamite car. I am flabergasted at what a GREAT job Nissan did. Well done.