Most rwhp NA build
07-25-2008, 05:45 AM
#23
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Hmm, so my level 1 goal should be scaled down a bit since 300 is "impossible" on DE. I'm at 235 base line. With bolt ons and no cam new goal is 260 at wheels. I'm going to built it eventually, I just wanted to get all I could out of it as it...not as much as I had hoped.
07-25-2008, 07:12 AM
#24
Originally Posted by shakuya88
Hmm, so my level 1 goal should be scaled down a bit since 300 is "impossible" on DE. I'm at 235 base line. With bolt ons and no cam new goal is 260 at wheels. I'm going to built it eventually, I just wanted to get all I could out of it as it...not as much as I had hoped.
You will need to make the car breathe. I estimate, without opening the motor, you can bolt on, and tune around 260-270whp, with the right combo of parts, that have to work as a team. Cams, headwork and more tuning could easily lead to 300whp.
JWT added 15whp from a camswap alone, Having a device that can tune cam angle, and a good intake manifold can gain on that. And Some slight headwork couldn't hurt.
If you break it down, and think about it, it doesn't have to be too costly.
07-25-2008, 07:16 AM
#25
I just looked back and read this thread. Looks like my estimates are spot on. I could put together a small part list if it was wanted. But I have to admit, I am no tuner, and I can only estimate.
07-25-2008, 07:16 AM
#26
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Originally Posted by shakuya88
Hmm, so my level 1 goal should be scaled down a bit since 300 is "impossible" on DE. I'm at 235 base line. With bolt ons and no cam new goal is 260 at wheels. I'm going to built it eventually, I just wanted to get all I could out of it as it...not as much as I had hoped.
260 whp with bolt ons and tuning is quite easy to achieve
Last edited by Z1 Performance; 07-25-2008 at 07:20 AM.
07-25-2008, 07:22 AM
#27
Originally Posted by Z1 Performance
it's not impossible at all, it's just not likely without cams, headwork (which is expensive for proper work), headers (also expensive for proper ones), tuning, etc. The building of the block is not all that costly when it comes down to it...its everything else that makes it an expensive proposition
The VQ Needs a true high rpm manifold, and maybe adapting the Maxima's Varible manifold could do the trick. You'd also need to upgrade the oil pump, and have cams that can push the peak into the higher RPM region.
07-25-2008, 07:25 AM
#28
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Originally Posted by KA24DE
For a nice porting job, and cleaning up the quench areas on the VQ head, would cost about how much? Do you belive that it is worth tha gains to be had?
The VQ Needs a true high rpm manifold, and maybe adapting the Maxima's Varible manifold could do the trick. You'd also need to upgrade the oil pump, and have cams that can push the peak into the higher RPM region.
The VQ Needs a true high rpm manifold, and maybe adapting the Maxima's Varible manifold could do the trick. You'd also need to upgrade the oil pump, and have cams that can push the peak into the higher RPM region.
The intake manifold is certainly a part of the equation, but the intake, cams, and header all need to be matched to work well with one another to achieve meaningful results
Last edited by Z1 Performance; 07-25-2008 at 07:27 AM.
07-25-2008, 07:28 AM
#29
Originally Posted by Z1 Performance
you would have to ask someone who does headwork for a living. That is like asking "how much is it to paint your car". Lots of places claim to do headwork, not so many do work that is worth paying for.
The intake manifold is certainly a part of the equation, but the intake, cams, and header all need to be matched to work well with one another to achieve meaningful results
The intake manifold is certainly a part of the equation, but the intake, cams, and header all need to be matched to work well with one another to achieve meaningful results
But, If you remember a while back, the VQ30 Maxima with JDM VQ35 cams (Near JWT specs they said), and a Piggyback unit was able to achive 270whp. With more displacement, a better head, and VVT, the VQ35 could have a broader powerband, and more peak power.
07-25-2008, 07:30 AM
#30
Refresher:
VQ30DE-K Swap
VQ35 Oil pump w/ low pressure cut off switch
VQ35 JDM cams (similar specs to JWT S1)
VQ35HR valve springs and retainers, double shimmed
Mild head "work" (NOT ported though)
Unorthodox flywheel
Exedy Stage 1 clutch
Greddy EManage Ultimate
Pathfinder TB
Stock DEK crank pulley
Custom intake w/ MAF delete
Cattman headers/y-pipe/catback (plus cutout)
Low temp T-stat
Walbro fuel pump
Returnless fuel rail w/ adjustable FPR
The VQ needs a true high rpm manfold first.
VQ30DE-K Swap
VQ35 Oil pump w/ low pressure cut off switch
VQ35 JDM cams (similar specs to JWT S1)
VQ35HR valve springs and retainers, double shimmed
Mild head "work" (NOT ported though)
Unorthodox flywheel
Exedy Stage 1 clutch
Greddy EManage Ultimate
Pathfinder TB
Stock DEK crank pulley
Custom intake w/ MAF delete
Cattman headers/y-pipe/catback (plus cutout)
Low temp T-stat
Walbro fuel pump
Returnless fuel rail w/ adjustable FPR
The VQ needs a true high rpm manfold first.
07-25-2008, 07:33 AM
#32
"So it goes without saying I'm happy with that. Interestingly enough, the modeling I'd done before building the engine predicted around 275 whp at 7700 rpm, and I was skeptical at the time that it was accurate (never fully trust software lol), but hey the program was just about bang on. It does require meticulously measuring and inputing data to get that close though.
So below I've posted 2 graphs, the first one is the best run from today, and the second is just a fun comparison with my 220whp run from 2005 (with stock DE cams and 00VI). The cams have obviously shifted the power band as one would expect, although I have changed more than just cams between the 2005 dyno to now."
So below I've posted 2 graphs, the first one is the best run from today, and the second is just a fun comparison with my 220whp run from 2005 (with stock DE cams and 00VI). The cams have obviously shifted the power band as one would expect, although I have changed more than just cams between the 2005 dyno to now."
07-25-2008, 07:36 AM
#33
Originally Posted by Z1 Performance
we only work on our own in house stuff, we don't offer any labor services here, strictly parts
Easier said than done.
07-25-2008, 07:53 AM
#34
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we have an intake manifold solution we're getting ready to work on for my car, but I'm not making any predictions on power, etc until all testing has been done. I am all about higher rpm power an increasing the torque curve, so that is what I personally am searching for. I was looking forward to trying out, and even playing with, the Cosworth manifold, I just got tired of waiting, so we did something else instead.
sorry, no hints either
sorry, no hints either
07-25-2008, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Z1 Performance
we have an intake manifold solution we're getting ready to work on for my car, but I'm not making any predictions on power, etc until all testing has been done. I am all about higher rpm power an increasing the torque curve, so that is what I personally am searching for. I was looking forward to trying out, and even playing with, the Cosworth manifold, I just got tired of waiting, so we did something else instead.
What's the deal with them? I hear they changed the manufacturing process to help stop the end panels from leaking. Have they been discontinued or are we just waiting again?
Originally Posted by Z1 Performance
sorry, no hints either
07-25-2008, 02:02 PM
#38
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Originally Posted by KA24DE
If you think the VQ is maxed out at the Specific output of only 85hp/liter, you are mistaken.
You will need to make the car breathe. I estimate, without opening the motor, you can bolt on, and tune around 260-270whp, with the right combo of parts, that have to work as a team. Cams, headwork and more tuning could easily lead to 300whp.
JWT added 15whp from a camswap alone, Having a device that can tune cam angle, and a good intake manifold can gain on that. And Some slight headwork couldn't hurt.
If you break it down, and think about it, it doesn't have to be too costly.
You will need to make the car breathe. I estimate, without opening the motor, you can bolt on, and tune around 260-270whp, with the right combo of parts, that have to work as a team. Cams, headwork and more tuning could easily lead to 300whp.
JWT added 15whp from a camswap alone, Having a device that can tune cam angle, and a good intake manifold can gain on that. And Some slight headwork couldn't hurt.
If you break it down, and think about it, it doesn't have to be too costly.
And slapping on a SC or ST or TT to get power just isn’t as satisfying to me... kinda the easy way out (maybe the economically sound way, but not as gratifying to me).
07-25-2008, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by OCG35
Kudos for "Getting it"!!!... I've tried to relay similar to people and man - it just goes so far past them - its like I'm speaking quantum physics or something... so many people want to just ignore common logic and go pages and pages about one bolt on vs stock... without understanding how the sum of all else that has been done effects the results.
And slapping on a SC or ST or TT to get power just isn’t as satisfying to me... kinda the easy way out (maybe the economically sound way, but not as gratifying to me).
And slapping on a SC or ST or TT to get power just isn’t as satisfying to me... kinda the easy way out (maybe the economically sound way, but not as gratifying to me).
No quantum physics, just hard work. The NA VQ path is much less traveled than the FI path. It's a lot less documented and much more difficult to get everything working together.
07-25-2008, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by __jb
Several people with very powerful NA VQ engines have already posted in this thread. If you read their build threads you will see that they are well designed, integrated builds.
No quantum physics, just hard work. The NA VQ path is much less traveled than the FI path. It's a lot less documented and much more difficult to get everything working together.
No quantum physics, just hard work. The NA VQ path is much less traveled than the FI path. It's a lot less documented and much more difficult to get everything working together.
I meant in general - most people don’t understand that it’s a combination of breather mods and moderate to wild engine work that result in performance.
To often people want to say one component is worthless and is no better then stock - even when it comes to cams and headers... rarely do people research or take the time (or even trial and error) to find the right combination of things that actually do work.