Didn't want to steal someone elses thread so I'm posting my own question here.. Someone suggested to run a 200 shot and the OP said hell no.. so.. my question is..

Why would it be safer to run a Supercharger or Turbocharger with a tune set at mid 450s on an HR and people call this perfectly safe yet running a 200 shot would be insane on an HR but would give you around the same amount of WHP for a brief amount of time..?

 

search yourself before you HRt yourself

 

So.. it's the torque that kills the engine huh?

I've had this magazine at home for months talking about the DE engine with ZEX 75 shot then 100 shot and they posted a dyno chart and I'm surprised they don't give you a torque curve! wtf.. so I totally didn't pay any attention to how much torque is given.

 

You got it, rtiid22. Without a progressive controller, it always sprays the full amount. Imagine if your turbo/supercharger was spinning at full blast at all times, basically.

I would suggest you run a 100 to 200 shot using a progressive controller, if you really want to go for it! Not sure anyone around here has done that.

 

Sudden horsepower increase in the engine doesnt kill it, what does is the sudden increase of torque. I wouldnt go any more than a 150shot if i was you, trust me. Unless you want to risk blowing up your motor.

 

the air/nos mixture dosent stay constant at those levels. you will eventually run lean on a cylinder and melt your pistons. but you could try it if you run direct port nitrous.

 

Do the 200 youll love it.. I did......

 

Lol.. I saw your homepage, you're forged! What kind of supporting engine modifications are required for this setup? Dollar per dollar would it be better just to FI to mid 450's on stock internals with an HR motor?

Also, sweet body kit! Mind listing what your setup is?

 

Its not that simple. S/C and turbos gradually add power to the engine while the nitrous comes on ALL OR NOTHING which creates much more stressful environment in your engine. IMO 450rwhp on a stock HR probably wouldnt last very long if at all. I personally chose a 125shot on stock internals on my HR and I got really afraid runnning that big of a shot on a stock engine. With a 125 shot Id be somewhere between 360-380whp depending on conditions.

I switched back to a 100shot and its plenty. IMO stock HRs could handle up to 390-400whp if you are very careful. But if you want a safer setup id step it down a lil.

 

Direct port would help somewhat, but if I were to do it, multi-stage is the most street friendly setup I could think of. 100 shot main, 100 shot secondary, or 75-125 depending on traction demands of your particular car. First shot comes on as normal, secondary comes on at higher rpms and only in 2nd/3rd gear or higher dependant on traction, to help keep it managable.

The issue you have with a large nitrous shot is actually pretty simple: Time

At lower engine speeds (ex. 3000 rpms), you have the engine drawing in an intake charge for twice as long as you do at 6000 rpms. Result is a massive torque increase at low engine speeds, that gets gradually less as rpms increase. Bringing a second set of jets online at 5000 rpms helps you avoid the hard hit of the full shot at 3K, but enjoy the solid power boost of the bigger shot where it really matters.

This is a very simple explanation, there are a lot of other factors that can affect the airflow and metering of the nitrous into the engine, i'm just trying to explain it clearly.

 

I didn't know that could be done.. very interesting..

How does the two stage nitrous thing work? That's great because I could use a small 50/75 shot on 2nd gear and the 125 on 3rd & 4th..

Or do you mean the secondary shot is added to the first? So, in my application I'll use first a 75 shot then a 50? (I don't really want a 200 shot)

 

Yeah, you can use one and then add the second, so 50+75hp or whatever numbers you want. It just makes it easier to manage and easier on the powertrain. I guess you could use only one first and the second one only later, but the added cost and complexity of two separate systems just for a smaller shot in one gear is hardly worth it. I would do a base 50 shot and then a secondary 100 shot or whatever you want on top of that to get to the desired total number. If the car can take a bigger main shot, bump that up until traction becomes an issue when you first hit it.

 

Is any of this computerized or am I going to have to manually trigger the sprays through buttons? Also, is this all crativity in the installation part or do companies manufacture sets complete for these kinds of installs?

 

You can manually control it, but it would be a handful. I would advise two rpm/tps window switches, one controlling each set of solenoids, first shot coming on at 3000, second at whatever you choose, both shutting off at the same time. You can add different controllers to lock out by gear or whatever else you want, or place a manual override so nothing will work at all until you arm the system and press a button, there are a bunch of ways to do it. I've done almost all of them on different applications, from rudimentary 'push a button for nitrous' setups like I had on my Cobalt, to the fully automatic 'just flip one switch, and the computer controls the rest' setup in my dad's truck. Zex kits are a nice mix with everything integrated in one box, but I really like the Holley/NOS brand kits for thier component nature.

Some companies do offer multi-stage nitrous kits, it's basically just two of everything, since that's pretty much what you need, just splitters for the feed from the fuel and nitrous supply lines, but everything else has to be doubled more or less.

 

Great answers, Italianjoe1. It's stupid to even discuss a 200 shot, though. I don't think the motor can handle all that stress and especially with a wet shot. At such high shots, direct port is highly recommended at the very least.

I've thought about doing the two stage nitrous, but seemed a bit pointless to me. If anything, I'd rather have the progressive controller (which is similar, except it'll ramp up your shot with a single solenoid).

 

Progressive controllers are really hard on solenoids, I wouldn't suggest it on the street or with anything less than big, rebuildable solenoids.

I wanted to go two-stage on the Cobalt, it could barely handle a 50 shot traction-wise in second gear, but another 50-75 in 3rd-4th would have made the car a complete animal.

 

That's why you do you two solenoids in-line. The first one is on the controller, the second one only opens/closes @ WOT. If/when the solenoid on the controller burns up / sticks open, the second one will still close. Even if you don't have a controller on them, it's always a good idea to do this...

 

Yeah, but still, you will burn up solenoids. They get expensive. Add in the fact that you have to double up on all of them at install, you might as well do a straight two-stage and call it a day.

 

Good nx or nos noids should easily go a year between rebuilds. But ya, for those budget conscious a two stage would be cheaper to build and nearly as safe.

 

Of course, it's hard on the solenoids - it's constant open/shut. But, that's the only way to truly ramp up the nitrous (rather than 2 spikes); I was just throwing out another option.