View Poll Results: I spray 5th gear?
Yes!
17
51.52%
Hell No!
16
48.48%
Voters: 33. You may not vote on this poll
Who sprays 5th gear?
04-30-2009, 02:02 PM
#21
Retired Admin
iTrader: (95)
Of course the mixture ratio is the same (given that nitrous pressure and fuel pressure both stays the same). However, without the fuel/nitrous mixture, there's also fuel for the engine itself apart from the spray mixture, yes? Every time the cylinder moves up and then down, X amount of fuel is used. How fast that happens depends on the RPM of the engine. Turbos' and supers' rate of increased air is dependent on the RPM. Nitrous mixture is always constant, as it's pressure dependent not RPM. Let me rephrase, one is a variable and one is constant. That's where the difference lies and thus 5th+ gear is highly advised against with nitrous.
Should I draw this out for you or is my 4th explanation enough?
Edit-
Because 5th gear is so long and the RPM doesn't climb as fast and because nitrous/fuel mixture is constant and indepdent of the engine RPM (unlike turbo/super where their spool is dependent on the RPM), long gears like that aren't recommended. That means that super/turbos are always adding the same amount of air at every RPM regardless of gear. That also means that nitrous/fuel mixture is always the same amount of power regardless of how fast or slow the RPM changes (which is based on gear) Do you honestly not get this logic? I suggest YOU learn about how things work in general, or even take some intro level courses for math, before you spit random BS.
04-30-2009, 03:20 PM
#22
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Wow, you obviously don't understand how nitrous works.
Of course the mixture ratio is the same (given that nitrous pressure and fuel pressure both stays the same). However, without the fuel/nitrous mixture, there's also fuel for the engine itself apart from the spray mixture, yes? Every time the cylinder moves up and then down, X amount of fuel is used. How fast that happens depends on the RPM of the engine. Turbos' and supers' rate of increased air is dependent on the RPM. Nitrous mixture is always constant, as it's pressure dependent not RPM. Let me rephrase, one is a variable and one is constant. That's where the difference lies and thus 5th+ gear is highly advised against with nitrous.
Should I draw this out for you or is my 4th explanation enough?
Edit-
Because 5th gear is so long and the RPM doesn't climb as fast and because nitrous/fuel mixture is constant and indepdent of the engine RPM (unlike turbo/super where their spool is dependent on the RPM), long gears like that aren't recommended. That means that super/turbos are always adding the same amount of air at every RPM regardless of gear. That also means that nitrous/fuel mixture is always the same amount of power regardless of how fast or slow the RPM changes (which is based on gear) Do you honestly not get this logic? I suggest YOU learn about how things work in general, or even take some intro level courses for math, before you spit random BS.
Of course the mixture ratio is the same (given that nitrous pressure and fuel pressure both stays the same). However, without the fuel/nitrous mixture, there's also fuel for the engine itself apart from the spray mixture, yes? Every time the cylinder moves up and then down, X amount of fuel is used. How fast that happens depends on the RPM of the engine. Turbos' and supers' rate of increased air is dependent on the RPM. Nitrous mixture is always constant, as it's pressure dependent not RPM. Let me rephrase, one is a variable and one is constant. That's where the difference lies and thus 5th+ gear is highly advised against with nitrous.
Should I draw this out for you or is my 4th explanation enough?
Edit-
Because 5th gear is so long and the RPM doesn't climb as fast and because nitrous/fuel mixture is constant and indepdent of the engine RPM (unlike turbo/super where their spool is dependent on the RPM), long gears like that aren't recommended. That means that super/turbos are always adding the same amount of air at every RPM regardless of gear. That also means that nitrous/fuel mixture is always the same amount of power regardless of how fast or slow the RPM changes (which is based on gear) Do you honestly not get this logic? I suggest YOU learn about how things work in general, or even take some intro level courses for math, before you spit random BS.
And No NoS is not always a constant. You can deliver a Varable NoS injection with a secondary map and Variable Pressure valve on the NoS.. !!
BTW What is the oxygen variance from atmosphere and NoS ??? If you know this then you can tune NoS however you want with the correct equipment... I am 100% sure I can empty 2 20lb bottles in 1 pass and not blow an engine. Then again I know how to do it.
Lets get GeeK on NoS and tuning. I enjoy the conversations,enlightenment's and Education in it all. NoS,Turbo,N/A whatever Chris Allen aka Shaggy
------
04 Turbo G35 Sedan 400WHP @ 8PSI
06 Dodge Turbo Diesel Chiped to 445HP & 860FT/LB TQ
04 Carson 28' Toybox to haul my cars and sleep in at the track
96 200SX Built GTI-R 497WHP (being dismantled)
91NX2K 12.6:1CR SR20VE All N1 parts Track Car 105deg Overlap and still making power .40tho Piston-Valve Clearance.
-----
Curent Project
S13 SR20VET 52F/1N5 Looking for 425-450WHP on PumpGas 600+ on C16
Last edited by shagspeed; 04-30-2009 at 03:26 PM.
04-30-2009, 03:28 PM
#23
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Wow, you obviously don't understand how nitrous works.
Of course the mixture ratio is the same (given that nitrous pressure and fuel pressure both stays the same). However, without the fuel/nitrous mixture, there's also fuel for the engine itself apart from the spray mixture, yes? Every time the cylinder moves up and then down, X amount of fuel is used. How fast that happens depends on the RPM of the engine. Turbos' and supers' rate of increased air is dependent on the RPM. Nitrous mixture is always constant, as it's pressure dependent not RPM. Let me rephrase, one is a variable and one is constant. That's where the difference lies and thus 5th+ gear is highly advised against with nitrous.
Should I draw this out for you or is my 4th explanation enough?
Edit-
Because 5th gear is so long and the RPM doesn't climb as fast and because nitrous/fuel mixture is constant and indepdent of the engine RPM (unlike turbo/super where their spool is dependent on the RPM), long gears like that aren't recommended. That means that super/turbos are always adding the same amount of air at every RPM regardless of gear. That also means that nitrous/fuel mixture is always the same amount of power regardless of how fast or slow the RPM changes (which is based on gear) Do you honestly not get this logic? I suggest YOU learn about how things work in general, or even take some intro level courses for math, before you spit random BS.
Of course the mixture ratio is the same (given that nitrous pressure and fuel pressure both stays the same). However, without the fuel/nitrous mixture, there's also fuel for the engine itself apart from the spray mixture, yes? Every time the cylinder moves up and then down, X amount of fuel is used. How fast that happens depends on the RPM of the engine. Turbos' and supers' rate of increased air is dependent on the RPM. Nitrous mixture is always constant, as it's pressure dependent not RPM. Let me rephrase, one is a variable and one is constant. That's where the difference lies and thus 5th+ gear is highly advised against with nitrous.
Should I draw this out for you or is my 4th explanation enough?
Edit-
Because 5th gear is so long and the RPM doesn't climb as fast and because nitrous/fuel mixture is constant and indepdent of the engine RPM (unlike turbo/super where their spool is dependent on the RPM), long gears like that aren't recommended. That means that super/turbos are always adding the same amount of air at every RPM regardless of gear. That also means that nitrous/fuel mixture is always the same amount of power regardless of how fast or slow the RPM changes (which is based on gear) Do you honestly not get this logic? I suggest YOU learn about how things work in general, or even take some intro level courses for math, before you spit random BS.
Wow..... and your a admin here? have you built cars before? do you understand much of anything or is the world a forum racer to you? Usually i never speak on items or threads but i saw this and had to put my foot down on all the internet racing going on. regardless of what gear you are in NITROUS N20 does not care its all in how you tune your car for it!!! bottle fed race cars do not go "uhohh 5th or 6th or 4th is comming gotta lay off the gas"
Last edited by nissansource; 04-30-2009 at 03:33 PM. Reason: regardless of admin or not sorry but Ive had plenty of N20 cars and know a thing or two about it
04-30-2009, 03:43 PM
#24
Retired Admin
iTrader: (95)
What does a Gear have to do with NoS??? I have ran NoS in boats all the time they have no gears????
And No NoS is not always a constant. You can deliver a Varable NoS injection with a secondary map and Variable Pressure valve on the NoS.. !!
BTW What is the oxygen variance from atmosphere and NoS ??? If you know this then you can tune NoS however you want with the correct equipment... I am 100% sure I can empty 2 20lb bottles in 1 pass and not blow an engine. Then again I know how to do it. Lets get GeeK on NoS and tuning. I enjoy the conversations,enlightenment's and Education in it all. NoS,Turbo,N/A whatever
Chris Allen aka Shaggy
------
04 Turbo G35 Sedan 400WHP @ 8PSI
06 Dodge Turbo Diesel Chiped to 445HP & 860FT/LB TQ
04 Carson 28' Toybox to haul my cars and sleep in at the track
96 200SX Built GTI-R 497WHP (being dismantled)
91NX2K 12.6:1CR SR20VE All N1 parts Track Car 105deg Overlap and still making power .40tho Piston-Valve Clearance.
-----
Curent Project
S13 SR20VET 52F/1N5 Looking for 425-450WHP on PumpGas 600+ on C16
And No NoS is not always a constant. You can deliver a Varable NoS injection with a secondary map and Variable Pressure valve on the NoS.. !!
BTW What is the oxygen variance from atmosphere and NoS ??? If you know this then you can tune NoS however you want with the correct equipment... I am 100% sure I can empty 2 20lb bottles in 1 pass and not blow an engine. Then again I know how to do it.
Lets get GeeK on NoS and tuning. I enjoy the conversations,enlightenment's and Education in it all. NoS,Turbo,N/A whatever Chris Allen aka Shaggy
------
04 Turbo G35 Sedan 400WHP @ 8PSI
06 Dodge Turbo Diesel Chiped to 445HP & 860FT/LB TQ
04 Carson 28' Toybox to haul my cars and sleep in at the track
96 200SX Built GTI-R 497WHP (being dismantled)
91NX2K 12.6:1CR SR20VE All N1 parts Track Car 105deg Overlap and still making power .40tho Piston-Valve Clearance.
-----
Curent Project
S13 SR20VET 52F/1N5 Looking for 425-450WHP on PumpGas 600+ on C16
And nitrous (not NOS, which is a brand) is constant for the most part. Of course you can get progressive controllers and whatever to change the rate, but that's not what's being asked here. Thus, no need for discussing accessories.
You go ahead and empty 2 bottles of nitrous on an otherwise stock engine and see what happens.Wow..... and your a admin here? have you built cars before? do you understand much of anything or is the world a forum racer to you? Usually i never speak on items or threads but i saw this and had to put my foot down on all the internet racing going on. regardless of what gear you are in NITROUS N20 does not care its all in how you tune your car for it!!! bottle fed race cars do not go "uhohh 5th or 6th or 4th is comming gotta lay off the gas"
Let's think logically for a second and hypothetically. You go from 3000 RPM to 5000 RPM in 5 seconds in 3rd gear and 10 grams of nitrous is added every second. That means approximately 50 grams of nitrous was used between 3000 RPM and 5000 RPM in 3rd, yes? Now, you go from 3K to 5K in 5th gear in 10 seconds and same 10 grams of nitrous is added every second again. In which gear, was more nitrous added? The answer is 5th gear, by 50 grams more than 3rd gear.
Nitrous kits don't vary their injection rate based on RPM, thus it IS constant. Turbos and supers spool and are driven by belts (which is not constant), thus it varies. You compared turbos/supers to nitrous, which is just plain retarded. The only thing they have in common is the fact that they're a type of forced induction. The second you compared nitrous to other types of FI, you failed.
BTW, who the hell sprays in 5th and 6th in the real world? If you're not winning by 4th gear, you've lost. Accept the loss and move on. Nobody thinks "maybe if I spray in 5th, I'll magically win the race!" Also, I do know that tunes matter. However, tunes don't change the fact that nitrous injection rate is still a constant. Tunes only adjust the engine components, not nitrous rates.
Seriously, logically my posts make more sense than yours. Rather than saying "waaaaaaahh you're an admin and you can't do that!" Why don't you tell me exactly why nitrous is ok to spray in 5th and 6th? That is, if you're capable of having an intelligent conversation rather than just stating that it's ok without proof, try it.
04-30-2009, 04:10 PM
#25
Retired Admin
iTrader: (95)
Did you guys finally get it after me trying to explain this about 5 or 6 times? I see you both are reading this thread.
BTW, for shts and giggles, I'll give you links to other forums/sites which state and agree that nitrous should be used for the lower gears and not the top gears:
http://www.team-integra.net/sections...?ArticleID=349
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/n...ogy/index.html
http://www.nitrousforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=450
http://www.b20vtec.com/forums/turbo-...rous-tech.html
http://www.honda-acura.net/forums/en...-civic-dx.html
http://allfordmustangs.com/forums/po...itrous-v6.html
If after all of this time with me trying to tell you that more nitrous is added in top gears per cylinder cycle, effectively increasing the pressure within the engine (too much pressure = boom), you still don't get it then do whatever the hell you want. In the end, we all know I was right (and even provided proof), and you were way off.
BTW, for shts and giggles, I'll give you links to other forums/sites which state and agree that nitrous should be used for the lower gears and not the top gears:
http://www.team-integra.net/sections...?ArticleID=349
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/n...ogy/index.html
http://www.nitrousforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=450
http://www.b20vtec.com/forums/turbo-...rous-tech.html
http://www.honda-acura.net/forums/en...-civic-dx.html
http://allfordmustangs.com/forums/po...itrous-v6.html
If after all of this time with me trying to tell you that more nitrous is added in top gears per cylinder cycle, effectively increasing the pressure within the engine (too much pressure = boom), you still don't get it then do whatever the hell you want. In the end, we all know I was right (and even provided proof), and you were way off.
04-30-2009, 04:46 PM
#26
Retired Admin
iTrader: (95)
sooo your saying i cant run a vq in a boat with no gearing and spray? your telling me i cant spray the whole way? lol. What does gearing have to do with anything? you talking prolonged exposure to increase hp? same goes for any increase in HP. I guess its time to tell my turbo guys that 5 gear boosting is a no no? Nitrous is already activated and motor rpm is already matched rotating speed so to continue a spray has no ill effect hell spray in 6th gear too stay in it to win it. Sorry as with any power adder on a stock engine let it be turbo,n2o,supercharged app you always run the risk on a non forged engine and it can be due to numerous things in the motor besides pistons,rings,rods,bearings. Oh even built to the hilt
BTW, editing your post AFTER somebody posts in response to you = fail.
Oh, I see all the edits you make and any deleted posts, too. If you got something to say, make a new post. You're not fooling me.
Anyway, it'd be best for you to just admit that you were wrong and move on. You're only fighting a losing battle.
04-30-2009, 05:04 PM
#27
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Did you guys finally get it after me trying to explain this about 5 or 6 times? I see you both are reading this thread.
BTW, for shts and giggles, I'll give you links to other forums/sites which state and agree that nitrous should be used for the lower gears and not the top gears:
http://www.team-integra.net/sections...?ArticleID=349
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/n...ogy/index.html
http://www.nitrousforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=450
http://www.b20vtec.com/forums/turbo-...rous-tech.html
http://www.honda-acura.net/forums/en...-civic-dx.html
http://allfordmustangs.com/forums/po...itrous-v6.html
If after all of this time with me trying to tell you that more nitrous is added in top gears per cylinder cycle, effectively increasing the pressure within the engine (too much pressure = boom), you still don't get it then do whatever the hell you want. In the end, we all know I was right (and even provided proof), and you were way off.
BTW, for shts and giggles, I'll give you links to other forums/sites which state and agree that nitrous should be used for the lower gears and not the top gears:
http://www.team-integra.net/sections...?ArticleID=349
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/n...ogy/index.html
http://www.nitrousforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=450
http://www.b20vtec.com/forums/turbo-...rous-tech.html
http://www.honda-acura.net/forums/en...-civic-dx.html
http://allfordmustangs.com/forums/po...itrous-v6.html
If after all of this time with me trying to tell you that more nitrous is added in top gears per cylinder cycle, effectively increasing the pressure within the engine (too much pressure = boom), you still don't get it then do whatever the hell you want. In the end, we all know I was right (and even provided proof), and you were way off.
So agree its foolish to run a static setup.. BTW Just courious what you will think will happen with Nitrous if you run it up in 5th or above ?? Run through some sinaros... This will be fun..
Also NissanSource there is no need to get combative here... I wish forums where like they use to be 10 years ago like the old SR list where everyone could have intelligent positive conversations..
Chris Allen aka Shaggy
------
04 Turbo G35 Sedan 400WHP @ 8PSI
06 Dodge Turbo Diesel Chiped to 445HP & 860FT/LB TQ
04 Carson 28' Toybox to haul my cars and sleep in at the track
96 200SX Built GTI-R 497WHP (being dismantled)
91NX2K 12.6:1CR SR20VE All N1 parts Track Car 105deg Overlap and still making power .40tho Piston-Valve Clearance.
-----
Curent Project
S13 SR20VET 52F/1N5 Looking for 425-450WHP on PumpGas 600+ on C16
04-30-2009, 05:19 PM
#28
Retired Admin
iTrader: (95)
Don't get me wrong... I agree with you on the theory of static nitros setups. But I allways thought anyone who ran a static wet system is a clown... I never have considered that as a setup. But your still incorrect in a way with the static system as its static you still drop a wider jet in and tune for max RPM everything under it would progressively get richer... I have been messing with stuff way to long !!! I know how it all works trust me...
So agree its foolish to run a static setup.. BTW Just courious what you will think will happen with Nitrous if you run it up in 5th or above ?? Run through some sinaros... This will be fun..
Also NissanSource there is no need to get combative here... I wish forums where like they use to be 10 years ago like the old SR list where everyone could have intelligent positive conversations..
Chris Allen aka Shaggy
------
04 Turbo G35 Sedan 400WHP @ 8PSI
06 Dodge Turbo Diesel Chiped to 445HP & 860FT/LB TQ
04 Carson 28' Toybox to haul my cars and sleep in at the track
96 200SX Built GTI-R 497WHP (being dismantled)
91NX2K 12.6:1CR SR20VE All N1 parts Track Car 105deg Overlap and still making power .40tho Piston-Valve Clearance.
-----
Curent Project
S13 SR20VET 52F/1N5 Looking for 425-450WHP on PumpGas 600+ on C16
So agree its foolish to run a static setup.. BTW Just courious what you will think will happen with Nitrous if you run it up in 5th or above ?? Run through some sinaros... This will be fun..
Also NissanSource there is no need to get combative here... I wish forums where like they use to be 10 years ago like the old SR list where everyone could have intelligent positive conversations..
Chris Allen aka Shaggy
------
04 Turbo G35 Sedan 400WHP @ 8PSI
06 Dodge Turbo Diesel Chiped to 445HP & 860FT/LB TQ
04 Carson 28' Toybox to haul my cars and sleep in at the track
96 200SX Built GTI-R 497WHP (being dismantled)
91NX2K 12.6:1CR SR20VE All N1 parts Track Car 105deg Overlap and still making power .40tho Piston-Valve Clearance.
-----
Curent Project
S13 SR20VET 52F/1N5 Looking for 425-450WHP on PumpGas 600+ on C16
What do you mean by "static system as its static you still drop a wider jet in and tune for max RPM everything under it would progressively get richer?"
Honestly, spraying in 5th gear once or twice or even for a few seconds won't hurt it. I know, because I've tried it. However, to make sure the newer nitrous guys don't mistake that experience as "I guess it's ok to keep spraying in 5th," I refrain from sharing that particular experience of mine. Again, only if you spray for very short amount of time in 5th, do I believe it's ok.
With that said, though, prolonged use of spray in 5th gear will eventually wear out the engine a lot quicker than it would normally without spray in 5th. Or, the increased (and prolonged) pressure inside the combustion chamber would take its toll, causing a big boom. Like I said multiple times now, the amount of nitrous consumed by the engine from 3-5K RPM in 2nd vs 5th is different. In 5th, the engine will have consumed more spray due to the engine speed climbing slower. That means added pressure and I would think that it would also get leaner in 5th than in 2nd.
04-30-2009, 06:15 PM
#29
Retired Admin
iTrader: (95)
nissansource, I know you've visited this thread at least 2 times since your last post and you've read all of my posts, so why the silence? After all of your insightful posts? What happened to "regardless of admin or not sorry but Ive had plenty of N20 cars and know a thing or two about it," your reason for editing post 23? 
Most of the time, when I post in the nitrous forum, it's because I know wtf I'm talking about. When I'm proven to be wrong, I don't hesitate to admit it. After all, we're all here to learn and share our experiences, right?
Why don't you man up and apologize for stirring **** up without any proof/knowledge or can you not even do that?
Most of the time, when I post in the nitrous forum, it's because I know wtf I'm talking about. When I'm proven to be wrong, I don't hesitate to admit it. After all, we're all here to learn and share our experiences, right?
Why don't you man up and apologize for stirring **** up without any proof/knowledge or can you not even do that?
04-30-2009, 07:11 PM
#30
hatersgonnahate
iTrader: (162)
This is my logical thought process, im not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone..if i mess up please correct me in a nice way....
Assumptions:
Nitrous Pressure is static
Fuel pressure is static
Nirtous delivery is a static,non progressive wet shot
yes in 5th gear you are going to stay in that gear for longer.
yes you will use more volume or mass of nitrous total
nitrous/second is constant
change of rpm/s is not constant for each gear ( 1st gear goes by quicker then 2nd and so on)
In 5th gear the rpms dont change as fast but if you integrate over time in each gear you will see that the motor should have combustion cycles for each higher gear. Wouldnt that mean that the N20/combustion cycle in each gear would be close to equal for each gear?
So...as gear goes up:
Total nitrous injected for that gear goes up
Total time in that gear goes up
Total number of combustion cycles go up
N20/combustion cycle stays nearly constant???
Air fuel stays constant once you tune the car???
Only thing ive heard about when spraying is to not shoot to low of an rpm and to cutoff before redline. Since the HP is fairly constant, your TQ in the lower rpms would be immense which is not good for the rods and pistons.
Another issue with spraying in the upper gears is heat! You are producing a lot more heat that point. N20 provides more oxygen to the combustion chamber then what just natural air provides so if you keep the a/f same does the motor know the difference?
Assumptions:
Nitrous Pressure is static
Fuel pressure is static
Nirtous delivery is a static,non progressive wet shot
yes in 5th gear you are going to stay in that gear for longer.
yes you will use more volume or mass of nitrous total
nitrous/second is constant
change of rpm/s is not constant for each gear ( 1st gear goes by quicker then 2nd and so on)
In 5th gear the rpms dont change as fast but if you integrate over time in each gear you will see that the motor should have combustion cycles for each higher gear. Wouldnt that mean that the N20/combustion cycle in each gear would be close to equal for each gear?
So...as gear goes up:
Total nitrous injected for that gear goes up
Total time in that gear goes up
Total number of combustion cycles go up
N20/combustion cycle stays nearly constant???
Air fuel stays constant once you tune the car???
Only thing ive heard about when spraying is to not shoot to low of an rpm and to cutoff before redline. Since the HP is fairly constant, your TQ in the lower rpms would be immense which is not good for the rods and pistons.
Another issue with spraying in the upper gears is heat! You are producing a lot more heat that point. N20 provides more oxygen to the combustion chamber then what just natural air provides so if you keep the a/f same does the motor know the difference?
04-30-2009, 07:46 PM
#31
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350 Personaly I have a family and my time is more important spent with them, i raid forums when im at the office with free time.. like now heading out for a bite to eat so i dont have much writing time. I do know one thing, fuel is a big factor in my way of thinking this his how i can increase it to match the bottle and do what i need it to do. You continue to do what you think is right.. end game congrats on trying to prove a point, While i continue to do what i do along with others that will always be faster then you. Please understand hands on experience is what really counts, True tuners know how the bottle game is, give Clark a call at jwt about their dry shot and fuel enhancement though the ecu. You are thinking generic kits that bolt on without supporting hardware. When i would run my bone stock SR fwd id shoot a 100shot deep into 5th gear to prove a point to big v10 vipers. BTW Good show my friend
Last edited by nissansource; 04-30-2009 at 07:50 PM.
04-30-2009, 08:04 PM
#32
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This is my logical thought process, im not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone..if i mess up please correct me in a nice way....
Assumptions:
Nitrous Pressure is static
Fuel pressure is static
Nirtous delivery is a static,non progressive wet shot
yes in 5th gear you are going to stay in that gear for longer.
yes you will use more volume or mass of nitrous total
nitrous/second is constant
change of rpm/s is not constant for each gear ( 1st gear goes by quicker then 2nd and so on)
In 5th gear the rpms dont change as fast but if you integrate over time in each gear you will see that the motor should have combustion cycles for each higher gear. Wouldnt that mean that the N20/combustion cycle in each gear would be close to equal for each gear?
So...as gear goes up:
Total nitrous injected for that gear goes up
Total time in that gear goes up
Total number of combustion cycles go up
N20/combustion cycle stays nearly constant???
Air fuel stays constant once you tune the car???
Only thing ive heard about when spraying is to not shoot to low of an rpm and to cutoff before redline. Since the HP is fairly constant, your TQ in the lower rpms would be immense which is not good for the rods and pistons.
Another issue with spraying in the upper gears is heat! You are producing a lot more heat that point. N20 provides more oxygen to the combustion chamber then what just natural air provides so if you keep the a/f same does the motor know the difference?
Assumptions:
Nitrous Pressure is static
Fuel pressure is static
Nirtous delivery is a static,non progressive wet shot
yes in 5th gear you are going to stay in that gear for longer.
yes you will use more volume or mass of nitrous total
nitrous/second is constant
change of rpm/s is not constant for each gear ( 1st gear goes by quicker then 2nd and so on)
In 5th gear the rpms dont change as fast but if you integrate over time in each gear you will see that the motor should have combustion cycles for each higher gear. Wouldnt that mean that the N20/combustion cycle in each gear would be close to equal for each gear?
So...as gear goes up:
Total nitrous injected for that gear goes up
Total time in that gear goes up
Total number of combustion cycles go up
N20/combustion cycle stays nearly constant???
Air fuel stays constant once you tune the car???
Only thing ive heard about when spraying is to not shoot to low of an rpm and to cutoff before redline. Since the HP is fairly constant, your TQ in the lower rpms would be immense which is not good for the rods and pistons.
Another issue with spraying in the upper gears is heat! You are producing a lot more heat that point. N20 provides more oxygen to the combustion chamber then what just natural air provides so if you keep the a/f same does the motor know the difference?
04-30-2009, 08:54 PM
#33
Retired Admin
iTrader: (95)
350 Personaly I have a family and my time is more important spent with them, i raid forums when im at the office with free time.. like now heading out for a bite to eat so i dont have much writing time. I do know one thing, fuel is a big factor in my way of thinking this his how i can increase it to match the bottle and do what i need it to do. You continue to do what you think is right.. end game congrats on trying to prove a point, While i continue to do what i do along with others that will always be faster then you. Please understand hands on experience is what really counts, True tuners know how the bottle game is, give Clark a call at jwt about their dry shot and fuel enhancement though the ecu. You are thinking generic kits that bolt on without supporting hardware. When i would run my bone stock SR fwd id shoot a 100shot deep into 5th gear to prove a point to big v10 vipers. BTW Good show my friend
Also, if you read my last post, I did say that I also spray in 5th gear. However, the general rule of thumb is that you don't spray for longer than 10-15 seconds and not in the upper gears. I just don't want the new nitrous guys thinking that they can spray whenever they want, blow up their engine, and blame me.
My thought process was based on a basic kit, yes, without other progressive controllers other than just a window switch and throttle position sensor.
This is my logical thought process, im not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone..if i mess up please correct me in a nice way....
Assumptions:
Nitrous Pressure is static
Fuel pressure is static
Nirtous delivery is a static,non progressive wet shot
yes in 5th gear you are going to stay in that gear for longer.
yes you will use more volume or mass of nitrous total
nitrous/second is constant
change of rpm/s is not constant for each gear ( 1st gear goes by quicker then 2nd and so on)
In 5th gear the rpms dont change as fast but if you integrate over time in each gear you will see that the motor should have combustion cycles for each higher gear. Wouldnt that mean that the N20/combustion cycle in each gear would be close to equal for each gear?
So...as gear goes up:
Total nitrous injected for that gear goes up
Total time in that gear goes up
Total number of combustion cycles go up
N20/combustion cycle stays nearly constant???
Air fuel stays constant once you tune the car???
Only thing ive heard about when spraying is to not shoot to low of an rpm and to cutoff before redline. Since the HP is fairly constant, your TQ in the lower rpms would be immense which is not good for the rods and pistons.
Another issue with spraying in the upper gears is heat! You are producing a lot more heat that point. N20 provides more oxygen to the combustion chamber then what just natural air provides so if you keep the a/f same does the motor know the difference?
Assumptions:
Nitrous Pressure is static
Fuel pressure is static
Nirtous delivery is a static,non progressive wet shot
yes in 5th gear you are going to stay in that gear for longer.
yes you will use more volume or mass of nitrous total
nitrous/second is constant
change of rpm/s is not constant for each gear ( 1st gear goes by quicker then 2nd and so on)
In 5th gear the rpms dont change as fast but if you integrate over time in each gear you will see that the motor should have combustion cycles for each higher gear. Wouldnt that mean that the N20/combustion cycle in each gear would be close to equal for each gear?
So...as gear goes up:
Total nitrous injected for that gear goes up
Total time in that gear goes up
Total number of combustion cycles go up
N20/combustion cycle stays nearly constant???
Air fuel stays constant once you tune the car???
Only thing ive heard about when spraying is to not shoot to low of an rpm and to cutoff before redline. Since the HP is fairly constant, your TQ in the lower rpms would be immense which is not good for the rods and pistons.
Another issue with spraying in the upper gears is heat! You are producing a lot more heat that point. N20 provides more oxygen to the combustion chamber then what just natural air provides so if you keep the a/f same does the motor know the difference?
Therefore, if you add more nitrous (which you are as you're staying in the gear longer), while the total number of cycles remains the same, you're effectively increasing the pressure within the chamber. That's why you go boom.
What I underlined is very important, because if you spray in 1st, that's an enormous amount of torque increase with the gear ratio that the 1st gear has. That's why it's generally recommended that you don't spray in first, but many of us do anyway without ill effects (given that you've had practice in other gears first and know how to control the instant surge of nitrous torque). Also, you don't want to hit the rev limiter (not redline), because when you hit the rev limiter, fuel for the engine is cut. Thus, you're spraying just the nitrous mixture or just nitrous (depending on where the fuel cut happens) into the engine, instantly creating a lean condition inside the chamber.
BTW, those "assumptions" are not assumptions, but facts.
04-30-2009, 09:53 PM
#34
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Haha, I guess I'm a "clown." Still, my numbers from the drag strip prove otherwise, no?
What do you mean by "static system as its static you still drop a wider jet in and tune for max RPM everything under it would progressively get richer?"
Honestly, spraying in 5th gear once or twice or even for a few seconds won't hurt it. I know, because I've tried it. However, to make sure the newer nitrous guys don't mistake that experience as "I guess it's ok to keep spraying in 5th," I refrain from sharing that particular experience of mine. Again, only if you spray for very short amount of time in 5th, do I believe it's ok.
With that said, though, prolonged use of spray in 5th gear will eventually wear out the engine a lot quicker than it would normally without spray in 5th. Or, the increased (and prolonged) pressure inside the combustion chamber would take its toll, causing a big boom. Like I said multiple times now, the amount of nitrous consumed by the engine from 3-5K RPM in 2nd vs 5th is different. In 5th, the engine will have consumed more spray due to the engine speed climbing slower. That means added pressure and I would think that it would also get leaner in 5th than in 2nd.
What do you mean by "static system as its static you still drop a wider jet in and tune for max RPM everything under it would progressively get richer?"
Honestly, spraying in 5th gear once or twice or even for a few seconds won't hurt it. I know, because I've tried it. However, to make sure the newer nitrous guys don't mistake that experience as "I guess it's ok to keep spraying in 5th," I refrain from sharing that particular experience of mine. Again, only if you spray for very short amount of time in 5th, do I believe it's ok.
With that said, though, prolonged use of spray in 5th gear will eventually wear out the engine a lot quicker than it would normally without spray in 5th. Or, the increased (and prolonged) pressure inside the combustion chamber would take its toll, causing a big boom. Like I said multiple times now, the amount of nitrous consumed by the engine from 3-5K RPM in 2nd vs 5th is different. In 5th, the engine will have consumed more spray due to the engine speed climbing slower. That means added pressure and I would think that it would also get leaner in 5th than in 2nd.
Not to get off topic but. Just because you run your setup the way you do doesn't mean its unsafe to run an engine thru 5th 6th or for 35 miles straight @ 7000 RPM in a boat with 500LB tank of Nitrous if you wanted. For you to try to convince the world otherwise is a bit unfair ..
I do apologize for using the term clown that was a bit unfair of me. Lets just say if your setup works for you then great where all happy for you though I too would feel unsafe running the **** out of an engine with the setup you have chosen . I do know I have never blown an engine because I take the time to set stuff up correctly.
If anyone wants to run a 100shot from LA to Vegas in 6th gear at 180MPH for example and you have a 500lb tank
I assure you it can be done and don't let anyone tell you otherwise . You just have to do it correctly.. BTW here's the math
75hp shot*5252rpm/3000rpm = 131.3 ft-lbs
150hp shot*5252rpm/6000rpm = 131.3 ft-lbs CORRECTION dam copy and paste forgot to change
The load is the same with the exception of RPM itself but because of the 1.77:1 rod ratio The rods acceleration from 0-90deg is less then most engines so this someone negates the RPM load to some degree "in comparison to other engines of course" And as long as your lambda's are in the 11.5-12.5 and you watch your EGT's your fine.
And this is why I would run a progressive setup .. I have always added the fueling through the injectors with a 2nd map on SR20 engines..
Other tips
Make sure your N2O stays about 400psi above its VPE and is highly recommend that you have your foggers in the runners themselves . Cools the charge drastically
If you want a really trick setup!! You can also use a piston accumulator with a small 3000psi nitrogen tank regulated to your 400PSI above VPE on one side of the piston and the other side is your N2O and there you go. You will never have any pressure drop
2nd map for fuel
Piston accumulator for exact pressure for every ounce of N2O
Thank you for joining us at the school of N2O and I hope you learned something...
Again my apologize if I have offended anyone this is not my intentions .. I enjoy engineering internal combustion engines like most everyone here. Lets all stay positive and share info.. I have been engineering and building engine systems and Racing in just about everything for the last 13 years and have the privilege to work with many very smart people whom are now my friends. If I can I will share as much as I can. I hope everyone else does the same. To Jim&Clark@JWT Mike Kojima former engineer for Nissan cooperate before they moved and whom tossed out the idea long ago about running the accumulator .. BigTom , Chuck @ JE Pistons "Piston questions for imports this is the man" all good friends and I am lucky to know most all I have met through the Internet. Point is lets not petty rivalries but intelligent discussions as this is a community and who knows how far it can extend. Would be nice to goto track days or whatever without hostility ya know.
Edited... Added
Do you have that time slip??? Curious what your 60' times where and the 1/8 times and trap..
Chris Allen aka Shaggy
------
04 Turbo G35 Sedan 400WHP @ 8PSI
06 Dodge Turbo Diesel Chiped to 445HP & 860FT/LB TQ
04 Carson 28' Toybox to haul my cars and sleep in at the track
96 200SX Built GTI-R 497WHP (being dismantled)
91NX2K 12.6:1CR SR20VE All N1 parts Track Car 105deg Overlap and still making power 40tho Piston-Valve Clearance.
-----
Current Project
S13 SR20VET 52F/1N5 Looking for 425-450WHP on PumpGas 600+ on C16
Last edited by shagspeed; 05-01-2009 at 10:38 AM.
04-30-2009, 10:47 PM
#35
Retired Admin
iTrader: (95)
Well then if I where you I would not spray in 5th with that setup.. Your absolutely correct as the VQ engine is actually a pretty weak engine but the dynamics of it are good with a 1.77:1 "RR" and with an 81.4 stroke your a tad under 25MPS@9200RPM but is much harder to extract massive power from it due to the electronics that are in the car..
Uh, thanks, but I already know that spraying in 5th with my setup (meaning engine, not nitrous set up) as-is is asking for trouble, which is why I rarely do it. Stock internals can't hold that much boost.
Not to get off topic but. Just because you run your setup the way you do doesn't mean its unsafe to run an engine thru 5th 6th or for 35 miles straight @ 7000 RPM in a boat with 500LB tank of Nitrous if you wanted. For you to try to convince the world otherwise is a bit unfair ..
What the hell are you talking about? I'm talking about cars, specifically our 350Zs. Why the hell do you keep bringing up some ******** about boats? I'm saying that in top gears with an otherwise stock vehicle, top gear sprays aren't very smart. When did I ever say that nitrous on anything in top gear is bad?
I do apologize for using the term clown that was a bit unfair of me. Lets just say if your setup works for you then great where all happy for you though I too would feel unsafe running the **** out of an engine with the setup you have chosen . I do know I have never blown an engine because I take the time to set stuff up correctly.
I honestly don't care what you think of me or my set up (which you don't know jack). My drag strip times are better than most with what little mods I've done compared to many others in their Zs with more mods. I don't care about dyno numbers, just track numbers. No need to be sorry, as you're entitled to your opinion. If you want to measure your ego with dyno numbers, that's on you. I'd rather prove what I can do in my car with proven times.
@ your high and mighty attitude. What makes your set up so great? What makes you think that my set up isn't "set up correctly?" Now, you're just annoying me. Please, get off your high horse.
If anyone wants to run a 100shot from LA to Vegas in 6th gear at 180MPH for example and you have a 500lb tank I assure you it can be done and don't let anyone tell you otherwise . You just have to do it correctly..
Again, I know that depending on the car, the set up, etc, this changes. However, I was talking about a stock car with nitrous. What do you not understand about that? If you spray 100 shot in a supra in 6th gear, it's ok. Does that mean that our car can take the same? No. Quit putting words in my mouth. It's time to start comparing apples to apples.
Planes used to use nitrous to accelerate faster too. Are planes the same as cars? Just because the planes do it at higher speeds with bigger shots for longer period of times, does that mean our cars can handle the same No. So what the hell makes you think boats are the same?
BTW here's the math
75hp shot*5252rpm/3000rpm = 131.3 ft-lbs
150hp shot*5252rpm/3000rpm = 131.3 ft-lbs
The load is the same with the exception of RPM itself but because of the 1.77:1 rod ratio The rods acceleration from 0-90deg is less then most engines so this someone negates the RPM load to some degree "in comparison to other engines of course" And as long as your lambda's are in the 11.5-12.5 and you watch your EGT's your fine.
I don't understand your math. How is a bigger shot netting the same amount of power? Damn, we might as well just spray a 1hp shot and save some nitrous.
And this is why I would run a progressive setup .. I have always added the fueling through the injectors with a 2nd map on SR20 engines..
You run your progressive set up and I'll stick with mine. I'm not going to run a progressive controller for a mere 100 shot.
Other tips
Make sure your N2O stays about 400psi above its VPE and is highly recommend that you have your foggers in the runners themselves . Cools the charge drastically
If you want a really trick setup!! You can also use a piston accumulator with a small 3000psi nitrogen tank regulated to your 400PSI above VPE on one side of the piston and the other side is your N2O and there you go. You will never have any pressure drop
Awesome. You do that, but I got other things to waste my money on other than nitrous.
2nd map for fuel
Piston accumulator for exact pressure for every ounce of N2O
Thank you for joining us at the school of N2O and I hope you learned something...
Again my apologize if I have offended anyone this is not my intentions .. I enjoy engineering internal combustion engines like most everyone here. Lets all stay positive and share info.. I have been engineering and building engine systems and Racing in just about everything for the last 13 years and have the privilege to work with many very smart people whom are now my friends. If I can I will share as much as I can. I hope everyone else does the same. To Jim&Clark@JWT Mike Kojima former engineer for Nissan cooperate before they moved and whom tossed out the idea long ago about running the accumulator .. BigTom , Chuck @ JE Pistons "Piston questions for imports this is the man" all good friends and I am lucky to know most all I have met through the Internet. Point is lets not petty rivalries but intelligent discussions as this is a community and who knows how far it can extend. Would be nice to goto track days or whatever without hostility ya know.
We get it. You're smart and you have experience. You get a gold star for the day. But, I don't think anybody cares. You may not have meant to offend, but you definitely have the wrong attitude for somebody who isn't trying to offend. Get off your soapbox and start reading what others have posted and actually understand what they're talking about before you talk about some random boat and nitrous.
Chris Allen aka Shaggy
------
04 Turbo G35 Sedan 400WHP @ 8PSI
06 Dodge Turbo Diesel Chiped to 445HP & 860FT/LB TQ
04 Carson 28' Toybox to haul my cars and sleep in at the track
96 200SX Built GTI-R 497WHP (being dismantled)
91NX2K 12.6:1CR SR20VE All N1 parts Track Car 105deg Overlap and still making power 40tho Piston-Valve Clearance.
-----
Current Project
S13 SR20VET 52F/1N5 Looking for 425-450WHP on PumpGas 600+ on C16
Uh, thanks, but I already know that spraying in 5th with my setup (meaning engine, not nitrous set up) as-is is asking for trouble, which is why I rarely do it. Stock internals can't hold that much boost.
Not to get off topic but. Just because you run your setup the way you do doesn't mean its unsafe to run an engine thru 5th 6th or for 35 miles straight @ 7000 RPM in a boat with 500LB tank of Nitrous if you wanted. For you to try to convince the world otherwise is a bit unfair ..
What the hell are you talking about? I'm talking about cars, specifically our 350Zs. Why the hell do you keep bringing up some ******** about boats? I'm saying that in top gears with an otherwise stock vehicle, top gear sprays aren't very smart. When did I ever say that nitrous on anything in top gear is bad?
I do apologize for using the term clown that was a bit unfair of me. Lets just say if your setup works for you then great where all happy for you though I too would feel unsafe running the **** out of an engine with the setup you have chosen . I do know I have never blown an engine because I take the time to set stuff up correctly.
I honestly don't care what you think of me or my set up (which you don't know jack). My drag strip times are better than most with what little mods I've done compared to many others in their Zs with more mods. I don't care about dyno numbers, just track numbers. No need to be sorry, as you're entitled to your opinion. If you want to measure your ego with dyno numbers, that's on you. I'd rather prove what I can do in my car with proven times.
@ your high and mighty attitude. What makes your set up so great? What makes you think that my set up isn't "set up correctly?" Now, you're just annoying me. Please, get off your high horse.If anyone wants to run a 100shot from LA to Vegas in 6th gear at 180MPH for example and you have a 500lb tank
I assure you it can be done and don't let anyone tell you otherwise . You just have to do it correctly.. Again, I know that depending on the car, the set up, etc, this changes. However, I was talking about a stock car with nitrous. What do you not understand about that? If you spray 100 shot in a supra in 6th gear, it's ok. Does that mean that our car can take the same? No. Quit putting words in my mouth. It's time to start comparing apples to apples.
Planes used to use nitrous to accelerate faster too. Are planes the same as cars? Just because the planes do it at higher speeds with bigger shots for longer period of times, does that mean our cars can handle the same No. So what the hell makes you think boats are the same?
BTW here's the math
75hp shot*5252rpm/3000rpm = 131.3 ft-lbs
150hp shot*5252rpm/3000rpm = 131.3 ft-lbs
The load is the same with the exception of RPM itself but because of the 1.77:1 rod ratio The rods acceleration from 0-90deg is less then most engines so this someone negates the RPM load to some degree "in comparison to other engines of course" And as long as your lambda's are in the 11.5-12.5 and you watch your EGT's your fine.
I don't understand your math. How is a bigger shot netting the same amount of power? Damn, we might as well just spray a 1hp shot and save some nitrous.
And this is why I would run a progressive setup .. I have always added the fueling through the injectors with a 2nd map on SR20 engines..
You run your progressive set up and I'll stick with mine. I'm not going to run a progressive controller for a mere 100 shot.
Other tips
Make sure your N2O stays about 400psi above its VPE and is highly recommend that you have your foggers in the runners themselves . Cools the charge drastically
If you want a really trick setup!! You can also use a piston accumulator with a small 3000psi nitrogen tank regulated to your 400PSI above VPE on one side of the piston and the other side is your N2O and there you go. You will never have any pressure drop
Awesome. You do that, but I got other things to waste my money on other than nitrous.
2nd map for fuel
Piston accumulator for exact pressure for every ounce of N2O
Thank you for joining us at the school of N2O and I hope you learned something...
Again my apologize if I have offended anyone this is not my intentions .. I enjoy engineering internal combustion engines like most everyone here. Lets all stay positive and share info.. I have been engineering and building engine systems and Racing in just about everything for the last 13 years and have the privilege to work with many very smart people whom are now my friends. If I can I will share as much as I can. I hope everyone else does the same. To Jim&Clark@JWT Mike Kojima former engineer for Nissan cooperate before they moved and whom tossed out the idea long ago about running the accumulator .. BigTom , Chuck @ JE Pistons "Piston questions for imports this is the man" all good friends and I am lucky to know most all I have met through the Internet. Point is lets not petty rivalries but intelligent discussions as this is a community and who knows how far it can extend. Would be nice to goto track days or whatever without hostility ya know.
We get it. You're smart and you have experience. You get a gold star for the day. But, I don't think anybody cares. You may not have meant to offend, but you definitely have the wrong attitude for somebody who isn't trying to offend. Get off your soapbox and start reading what others have posted and actually understand what they're talking about before you talk about some random boat and nitrous.
Chris Allen aka Shaggy
------
04 Turbo G35 Sedan 400WHP @ 8PSI
06 Dodge Turbo Diesel Chiped to 445HP & 860FT/LB TQ
04 Carson 28' Toybox to haul my cars and sleep in at the track
96 200SX Built GTI-R 497WHP (being dismantled)
91NX2K 12.6:1CR SR20VE All N1 parts Track Car 105deg Overlap and still making power 40tho Piston-Valve Clearance.
-----
Current Project
S13 SR20VET 52F/1N5 Looking for 425-450WHP on PumpGas 600+ on C16
05-01-2009, 03:58 AM
#36
hatersgonnahate
iTrader: (162)
Chris i think you misunderstand my "total number of combustion cycles goes up"
What im saying is in each gear you go from say 3300 to 6800 rpm....the higher the gear the longer it takes. If you integrate of each gears time window you get the total number of combustion cycles. Therefore 5th has more combustion cycles then 4th and so on when you go and "run out" each gear. Im pointing this out because your entire discussion is based on the amount of time you are in each gear and the amount of nitrous that is injected.
Make sense?
Side note: Wonder what nitrous would do on a car with a CVT transmission that holds the cars rpm's constant?
What im saying is in each gear you go from say 3300 to 6800 rpm....the higher the gear the longer it takes. If you integrate of each gears time window you get the total number of combustion cycles. Therefore 5th has more combustion cycles then 4th and so on when you go and "run out" each gear. Im pointing this out because your entire discussion is based on the amount of time you are in each gear and the amount of nitrous that is injected.
Make sense?
Side note: Wonder what nitrous would do on a car with a CVT transmission that holds the cars rpm's constant?
05-01-2009, 10:31 AM
#37
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Chris i think you misunderstand my "total number of combustion cycles goes up"
What im saying is in each gear you go from say 3300 to 6800 rpm....the higher the gear the longer it takes. If you integrate of each gears time window you get the total number of combustion cycles. Therefore 5th has more combustion cycles then 4th and so on when you go and "run out" each gear. Im pointing this out because your entire discussion is based on the amount of time you are in each gear and the amount of nitrous that is injected.
Make sense?
Side note: Wonder what nitrous would do on a car with a CVT transmission that holds the cars rpm's constant?
What im saying is in each gear you go from say 3300 to 6800 rpm....the higher the gear the longer it takes. If you integrate of each gears time window you get the total number of combustion cycles. Therefore 5th has more combustion cycles then 4th and so on when you go and "run out" each gear. Im pointing this out because your entire discussion is based on the amount of time you are in each gear and the amount of nitrous that is injected.
Make sense?
Side note: Wonder what nitrous would do on a car with a CVT transmission that holds the cars rpm's constant?
Atmosphere is made up of ruffly 20-21% oxygen
N2O is usually around 36.3% oxygen
So we know this is a constant so all you have to do is deliver the fuel properly in conjunction with RPM regardless of Auto,CVT,Direct Drive or Manual Gear box.
My point is and I will let it rest here is. Some Clown said its no good to dump N2O in 5th gear.. I call ******** and now he is butt hurt from what I can tell due to is continued anger.. I try to have lots of respect for people but sometimes there ego won't let them be humble about stuff.. You claim its a bad idea and will blow up. NO NOT IF YOU DO IT CORRECTLY.. In anycase heres the "put up or shutup"
I will put up 40K to the Clown's Pink Slip of his Z that says I can't empty a full 20lb bottle in 5th and/or 6th gear "your choice" at Bonneville with his car and my electronics.... 40K more then enough to cover you a new engine..
BTW here's the math
75hp shot*5252rpm/3000rpm = 131.3 ft-lbs
150hp shot*5252rpm/6000rpm = 131.3 ft-lbs
The load is the same with the exception of RPM itself but because of the 1.77:1 rod ratio The rods acceleration from 0-90deg is less then most engines so this someone negates the RPM load to some degree "in comparison to other engines of course" And as long as your lambda's are in the 11.5-12.5 and you watch your EGT's your fine.
Originally Posted by THE CLOWN
I don't understand your math. How is a bigger shot netting the same amount of power? Damn, we might as well just spray a 1hp shot and save some nitrous.
What a shame
Last edited by shagspeed; 05-01-2009 at 10:48 AM.
05-01-2009, 11:30 AM
#38
hatersgonnahate
iTrader: (162)
^lol your name is chris as well,damn...we got three of us in here. I was replying to threefivezer0 with my last post, not you.
40k....damn!!! Ill put my car up for that. Shes had bottle before but not much. Shoot id do it for half!
3hree5ivezero he was showing the calculation for HP based of tq.....at varying RPMS.
75hp at 3000 rpm is alot more tq then 75hp at 6000 rpm. Ever see honda hp graphs....9k rpm and 600hp but very little tq, like 350 or so.
40k....damn!!! Ill put my car up for that. Shes had bottle before but not much. Shoot id do it for half!
3hree5ivezero he was showing the calculation for HP based of tq.....at varying RPMS.
75hp at 3000 rpm is alot more tq then 75hp at 6000 rpm. Ever see honda hp graphs....9k rpm and 600hp but very little tq, like 350 or so.
05-01-2009, 06:59 PM
#39
Retired Admin
iTrader: (95)
Ya I understand completely but I don't see why this matters for N2O if you run Progressive fuel through the injectors and your fine .
Who spends that much money on nitrous set ups to get progressive fuel through the injectors? Most people get nitrous because they don't have the funds or don't want to spend the funds for turbo/super. Please, stfu.
Atmosphere is made up of ruffly 20-21% oxygen
N2O is usually around 36.3% oxygen
Trust me. I know enough chemistry than I need to know. No need for chemistry lesson here. Thanks for the google search, though.
So we know this is a constant so all you have to do is deliver the fuel properly in conjunction with RPM regardless of Auto,CVT,Direct Drive or Manual Gear box.
My point is and I will let it rest here is. Some Clown said its no good to dump N2O in 5th gear.. Like I said, it's rate and the resulting pressure increase inside the chamber that is detrimental, not the actual gear. I guess you don't read through things carefully enough to comprehend things fully. I call ******** and now he is butt hurt from what I can tell due to is continued anger.. I try to have lots of respect for people but sometimes there ego won't let them be humble about stuff.. Respect them by telling them their set up is incorrect? Where'd you learn your manners? You claim its a bad idea and will blow up. Again, only if the pressure increase becomes too great for the engine to handle. NO NOT IF YOU DO IT CORRECTLY.. In anycase heres the "put up or shutup"
Most people will agree that spraying for extended period of time in the top gears are a bad idea. You're one of the few who will say you can spray as long as you want. Of course, if you do things "correctly" (your definition of spend thousands getting progressive set ups here and there and blah blah. People with nitrous usually spend 1.5K.
I will put up 40K to the Clown's Pink Slip of his Z that says I can't empty a full 20lb bottle in 5th and/or 6th gear "your choice" at Bonneville with his car and my electronics.... 40K more then enough to cover you a new engine..
Dude, are you that dense? If I wanted to, I can empty 100000lbs of nitrous in 1928th gear. The fact of the matter is, it's the rate of the nitrous mixture being injected into the engine is what matters. If I spray very little amount in 6th gear, of course, nothing's going to happen. I'm talking about a 100-150 shot straight up in an otherwise stock engine without fancy schmancy progressive controllers most people don't have. Rofl, you're over there talking about boats.
BTW here's the math I have enough math under my belt too, but thanks for the less-than-algebra math lessons.
75hp shot*5252rpm/3000rpm = 131.3 ft-lbs
150hp shot*5252rpm/6000rpm = 131.3 ft-lbs
The load is the same with the exception of RPM itself but because of the 1.77:1 rod ratio The rods acceleration from 0-90deg is less then most engines so this someone negates the RPM load to some degree "in comparison to other engines of course" And as long as your lambda's are in the 11.5-12.5 and you watch your EGT's your fine.
Look at your previous post where you showed that similar "math" and look at this one. Your numbers changed and I called you out on your mistake the first time. Please, stfu and review your post before you post.
Uh oh.. calling names now, huh? What happened to the respect? Oh wait, you never had respect for anybody seeing how you were telling them how you build this and that and I got this car and that car and your set up is wrong and my set up is the bomb... blah blah blah 
Have you ever looked at a dyno chart.. This is SOOOOOOOOOO Basic... The math is correct. Not the way you had it before. All an engine really has is TQ and where is developed in the band. No ****? HP is actually a calculated number not a measurement.. Damn, you're just full of insight, aren't you? So as an engine approaches its max operating range TQ falls off and takes more "whatever=boost,N2O ,Lift Duration,Overlap" to sustain its TQ Thanks, but I already knew this. ..Dude please stay in school.. You have a long way to go...What a shame What have you done with your life that makes you so special? You build cars for a living? Rofl. And don't worry, I'm planning on attending medical school soon. You have fun building cars.
Who spends that much money on nitrous set ups to get progressive fuel through the injectors? Most people get nitrous because they don't have the funds or don't want to spend the funds for turbo/super. Please, stfu.
Atmosphere is made up of ruffly 20-21% oxygen
N2O is usually around 36.3% oxygen
Trust me. I know enough chemistry than I need to know. No need for chemistry lesson here. Thanks for the google search, though.
So we know this is a constant so all you have to do is deliver the fuel properly in conjunction with RPM regardless of Auto,CVT,Direct Drive or Manual Gear box.
My point is and I will let it rest here is. Some Clown said its no good to dump N2O in 5th gear.. Like I said, it's rate and the resulting pressure increase inside the chamber that is detrimental, not the actual gear. I guess you don't read through things carefully enough to comprehend things fully. I call ******** and now he is butt hurt from what I can tell due to is continued anger.. I try to have lots of respect for people but sometimes there ego won't let them be humble about stuff.. Respect them by telling them their set up is incorrect? Where'd you learn your manners?
You claim its a bad idea and will blow up. Again, only if the pressure increase becomes too great for the engine to handle. NO NOT IF YOU DO IT CORRECTLY.. In anycase heres the "put up or shutup" Most people will agree that spraying for extended period of time in the top gears are a bad idea. You're one of the few who will say you can spray as long as you want. Of course, if you do things "correctly" (your definition of spend thousands getting progressive set ups here and there and blah blah. People with nitrous usually spend 1.5K.I will put up 40K to the Clown's Pink Slip of his Z that says I can't empty a full 20lb bottle in 5th and/or 6th gear "your choice" at Bonneville with his car and my electronics.... 40K more then enough to cover you a new engine..
Dude, are you that dense? If I wanted to, I can empty 100000lbs of nitrous in 1928th gear. The fact of the matter is, it's the rate of the nitrous mixture being injected into the engine is what matters. If I spray very little amount in 6th gear, of course, nothing's going to happen. I'm talking about a 100-150 shot straight up in an otherwise stock engine without fancy schmancy progressive controllers most people don't have. Rofl, you're over there talking about boats.
BTW here's the math I have enough math under my belt too, but thanks for the less-than-algebra math lessons.
75hp shot*5252rpm/3000rpm = 131.3 ft-lbs
150hp shot*5252rpm/6000rpm = 131.3 ft-lbs
The load is the same with the exception of RPM itself but because of the 1.77:1 rod ratio The rods acceleration from 0-90deg is less then most engines so this someone negates the RPM load to some degree "in comparison to other engines of course" And as long as your lambda's are in the 11.5-12.5 and you watch your EGT's your fine.
Look at your previous post where you showed that similar "math" and look at this one. Your numbers changed and I called you out on your mistake the first time. Please, stfu and review your post before you post.
Originally Posted by THE CLOWN
I don't understand your math. How is a bigger shot netting the same amount of power? Damn, we might as well just spray a 1hp shot and save some nitrous.
Have you ever looked at a dyno chart.. This is SOOOOOOOOOO Basic... The math is correct. Not the way you had it before. All an engine really has is TQ and where is developed in the band. No ****? HP is actually a calculated number not a measurement.. Damn, you're just full of insight, aren't you? So as an engine approaches its max operating range TQ falls off and takes more "whatever=boost,N2O ,Lift Duration,Overlap" to sustain its TQ Thanks, but I already knew this. ..Dude please stay in school.. You have a long way to go...
What a shame What have you done with your life that makes you so special? You build cars for a living? Rofl. And don't worry, I'm planning on attending medical school soon. You have fun building cars.And yeah, waaaay too many Chris's around here. And I thought Dave and John were common names.
