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What they are trying to say is that it seems like you don't have much knowledge with working on cars and for them to compile a list of things you need would be useless since you can not perform the work yourself.
True in that, I'm no mechanic and have no intention of working on the car myself. I pay someone to do that. What I need to know is what to buy and general setup options. How is giving me that info useless?
Furthermore, what is the point of being on a forum if you can't be bothered to share information? What's the point of giving cryptic answers to questions or chastising a person for even asking a question? It takes just as much time to be a jackass as it does to answer a question. Is the forum now relegated to veterans jerking each other off or something?
The 350 section has quite obviously passed it's prime with fewer posts than before. You would think someone new would be welcomed in. At the very least, not ran off. It's not like veterans don't get anything back out of it when someone is doing a new build, using some parts that haven't even been talked about on this forum like the $730 HFCs I just bought.
You are asking questions you are no where near asking yet. Your questions aren't even realivant which shows you know little or nothing about nitrous aside from it makes cars go fast.
Your not ready to buy, or use it. To further explain would just be a waste of time. Drive your car and enjoy it. That's advice.
You asking dumb questions and then getting on us about giving dumb answer is just going to make it worse. If you want educated realistic answers, ask educated realistic questions.
Basically it's what you give is what you get. So if you continue to get mad we'll respond as such, if you do your part and think about what your asking we'll do the same in answering.
Not that hard. And I'm saying this as friendly as possible so don't lose it reading this as aggressive towards you.
Furthermore, what is the point of being on a forum if you can't be bothered to share information? What's the point of giving cryptic answers to questions or chastising a person for even asking a question? It takes just as much time to be a jackass as it does to answer a question. Is the forum now relegated to veterans jerking each other off or something?
The 350 section has quite obviously passed it's prime with fewer posts than before. You would think someone new would be welcomed in. At the very least, not ran off. It's not like veterans don't get anything back out of it when someone is doing a new build, using some parts that haven't even been talked about on this forum like the $730 HFCs I just bought.
When a know it all wants to ask questions, of course hes going to get **** answer. Many have told you theres more to a turbo build than 5k yet here you are thining a 5k kit is an end all thing. And i warn you the same with a nitrous kit and once again you think a kit is an end all.
DONT ACT LIKE A DAMN KNOW IT ALL AND WE WONT TREAT YOU LIKE SHI*. Now go cry in a corner elsewhere.
How is asking this being a know it all?
"And what I am I missing about a 5k turbo kit? I realize this isn't the best one, but isn't this an example of one?
http://www.importpartspro.com/tusitu...MOsaAmdp8P8HAQ"
Or this?
"http://store.newlevelmotorsports.com/82220.html
Wouldn't that with a bottle opener, warmer, and window switch pretty much be all that I need?"
Both questions are asking, what else is needed? Not that I give a damn about the turbo kit as I only mentioned it in passing about not wanting to spend 5k+ on one, but I was genuinely trying to figure out what else was needed for a nitrous setup. All I'm trying to find out is what I need to approach a shop or my mechanic with, and to make sure I'm not missing something or that a shop isn't shorting me something just to make a quick sale.
As far as my original question, I get that some people are against N20 for street use, I'm fine with that, but I am FAR from the only person who wants to or is already doing it. All I asked is it ok to run a bottle warmer all of the time. I realize that might be a "well duh" question, but all it required was a simple "yes people do it all of the time" or "No, it's not advisable because..."
If I was a know it all, I would have said something like,
"You don't need over 5k for a turbo kit, look at this right here..."
or
"Yes you can do nitrous for cheap, just look at this..."
Go see a shop or mechanic. They will tell you the rest of what you need. But a kit won't be ALL you need.
And the well duh part is wanting a full time bottle warmer and nitrous for a street car... It makes almost no sense again showing you are no where near knowlegable or ready to even touch the stuff.
Not to mention I don't think you have even thought of paying for nitrous. It's not cheap, and doesn't last long.
Again your on question 10, 11 and 12... when you don't even know the basic 1 - 9 yet.
I originally commented that youre out of youre mind if you think youre getting turbo for 5k. And you begin to refute that with a link to a kit thats 5k as if you knew anything.
Again, i commented a well built nitrous set upnis going to run close to 5k, again you refute it with a stupid 500 dollar kit.
So GO AHEAD AND BUY THE KIT. When youre half way done, youll run out of money, force to part it out, and I'll be buying a new unused kit for half the price.
CK_32 I appreciate your responses and what you are saying, maybe I'm going about it wrong, but I am TRYING to educate myself on the subject.
turboed350z, I was having a bad day yesterday and on top of that, frustration from my other post probably bled into this one. Maybe I could have worded the responses you mentioned better, but my intention was to ask you, not challenge you. For what it's worth, I apologize.
In any case, let me try this again. I've read the major posts on here and other websites, but I guess what I have read has been very lacking since I'm hearing conflicting information here. So here is the gist of what I've compiled and would really appreciate someone knowledgeable correcting me where I'm wrong, or if I'm just totally off base, tell me where (online) I can educate myself.
Our engines can safely handle a 75 wet shot with no modifications other than spark plugs and a tune (excluding nitrous related parts) without effecting longevity.
The Zex kit for the 350z contains most of what you need for the 55, 75, and 100 shot jets that it comes with. The big must haves that it doesn't include is a warmer and a window switch. (It does come with a WOT and fuel control.) A/F and pressure gauges are highly recommended. Remote bottle opener is a nice luxury. Purge kit isn't needed, but will help get the most out of it. Blow-off cap and blow down tube is required for sanctioned races, don't know if it's really needed outside of that on a setup like this though. http://www.zex.com/zx/2003-2006-niss...us-systemhtml/
I understand the purpose and function of all of those components, though I know I need to look more into the blow off. I realize there are other potential components like controllers, but from what I understand they aren't needed for a "basic" setup.
As far as my original question dealing with having a warmer on all of the time on a daily driver, my concern was pressurizing the bottle 60-100 times per month but seldom using it. The idea was that the warmer would come on with the ignition, but the rest of the system wouldn't be active until a physical switch is flipped. I could see this putting unneeded pressure against seals and fittings on the bottle and eventually causing a leak. My concern is that I would end up leaking more nitrous than I was using or that there is an issue I'm not thinking of here. Not sure, but this may be where a blow off would come into play. What I was thinking is that after the newness wore off, I'd probably only use a bottle or two of nitrous a year, at most. I should note that my state, KY, allows for nitrous to be hooked up and in a car on the street, as long as the bottle isn't open.
So there it is, if I'm the victim of misinformation, please let me know where I'm wrong, or tell me what I don't know that I don't know.
Last edited by Sebastian777; 01-11-2017 at 07:16 PM.
I originally did not want to post, since it really seemed like you did not do any reading at all, but your recent post shows that you at least did a little bit.
As for your question about the warmer, you can keep it on at all times if you do it properly. Get a warmer that is based on nitrous pressure. Attach the bottle warmer pressure sensor directly to the bottle, this will allow you to keep your bottle closed while still maintaining proper pressure.
With this in mind, a nitrous pressure gauge and blow down tube is a must so that you can keep an eye on pressure and be safe. It is true that some tracks require a blow down tube, but having one for safety on the streets is just as important. Having a remote bottle opener will also help. You can keep your bottle closed while warming it to prevent high pressure on your solenoids. That is the last thing you want, constant pressure on your solenoids will eventually cause them to fail and can lead to disaster for your engine.
Also, you don't need a tune for a 75 shot, which most would equate to a 42N 24F Jets.
You can see from my picture how I attached the bottle warmer pressure sensor:
As for what kit, I would go with dynotune. They are reliable and the extra money you save you can purchase accessories.
I originally did not want to post, since it really seemed like you did not do any reading at all, but your recent post shows that you at least did a little bit.
[ Lots good info edited out ]
Just remember, people don't mind answering your questions if you put in a bit of work yourself.
Gee, I'da never guessed that BakaN20's forte was nitrous oxide.
Bakan20 said most of it, however i would like to add on to one thing many havent mention.
A 10lb bottle doesnt last long, and idk about where yourr at, but for me, filling up a bottlenis 50 buck. And when i say "doesnt last long" i litterally means one or 2 pull and youll be out. With that said, with how many part out threads their are, in the long tun, itll be cheaper to get a used vortech kit or a turbo kit. I HIGHLY recommend a purge kit for N2O sure you dont need it, but youll want it.
A build is simple, the more parts their are, the more risk of failure. The more safety nets you have in play, the smaller the chance of a failure being fatal.
As ive said, a properly built nitrous set up is going to run about 5k, now as the price drops, so the reliability, and risks increases. Can you build it for cheaper and be reliable "enough"? Sure but if something goes wrong, the repair bill can cost more than the whole build. Can you build it perfectly and still have issues? Of course but the risk is much less.
As far as "once the new factor wears out, ill use it alot less." Ask any giy who have turboed their Z for the last 10 years, theyll all tell you the same, as long as the powers there, so is the temptation, and they use it every chance they get. You may think youll use less as time goes on, but reality is, it doesnt drop off that much.
BakaN20, I did see people say you didn't need a tune, I was erring on the side of caution until I found out more. I may not need one, but I'm curious, will there be a noticeable benefit in safety or power by going with one or is there just not much to tune for with a 75 shot?
turboed350z, are you running a really high shot? I'm confused because I've read in many places that you can expect 7-10 runs on a 1/4 mile out of 10lb bottle on a 75 shot setup.
As far as what you are saying about safer and more reliable setups, other than adding a controller of some sort, are you suggesting going with a pricier higher quality setup, or are there additional components I haven't came across in my reading. I'm guessing the former, but want to make sure I have all of my bases covered.
With the addiction to power issue, knowing it's at least $5 a pop should keep my temptation under control. The fact that I'm frugal is one thing I have going for me.
I should note that IF I do get a nitrous setup, I'll be having a performance shop install it. I just don't want to add anything to my car that I don't at least have a working knowledge of.
if you are doing plenum spacer, hfc, and exhaust you will need a tune
Thanks, I should have probably mentioned that. I'm also getting a MREV2. I am already planning on getting a tune for those upgrades. My question about tuning for the nitrous is if I add the system after my tune, will I benefit from getting it tuned again?
Gee, I'da never guessed that BakaN20's forte was nitrous oxide.
Seriously though, great info.
Lol, this wasn't my original handle, I actually had a mod change it to this awhile ago.
Originally Posted by Sebastian777
Thanks, I should have probably mentioned that. I'm also getting a MREV2. I am already planning on getting a tune for those upgrades. My question about tuning for the nitrous is if I add the system after my tune, will I benefit from getting it tuned again?
Tuning for maximum NA power will be different from tuning for nitrous. To get the most from NA mods, tuners would usually advance the timing, which is dangerous if you have nitrous.
The old general rule of thumb is to retard timing by 1-2 degrees for every 50hp of nitrous. The best way is to base it off of combustion efficiency and reading spark plugs, but most tuners won't do this for such a small shot of nitrous.
Most companies are conservative with their jetting recommendations so you have a lot of room for safety. They usually have a nitrous to fuel ratio of 5.5-6.0. I was running an 8 to 1 ratio without any tuning, but your mileage will vary. This is the nitrous calculator I use:
As for your question about spending more on the setup, the answer is both. To give you an example, spending more on some kits have their benefits. This would include providing stronger and larger solenoids, higher flow nitrous valves, and better nozzles.
Providing larger and stronger solenoids are both a safety and performance issue. Better solenoids as a safety will reduce chances of getting stuck. Situations that solenoids can get stuck would include too high of a nitrous pressure. If your nitrous solenoid does not open, you could flood your engine with fuel. If your nitrous solenoid gets stuck open, you can get into a lean situation real fast. Being too rich is just as dangerous as being too lean. Having better solenoids will allow you to run a higher nitrous shot in the future.
As for higher flow valves, this also allows you to use higher nitrous shots. As for better nozzles, read the following:
Spending more money on accessories also has the benefit of performance and safety. An example would be buying a quality controller. Some controllers allow you to have a lean/rich cutoff, which is an incredible safety measure. For performance, some can allow for progressive shots, which is also a safety matter. Having a progressive controller can let you activate your nitrous at launch, which can give you better 1/4 mile times.
Tuning for maximum NA power will be different from tuning for nitrous. To get the most from NA mods, tuners would usually advance the timing, which is dangerous if you have nitrous.
The old general rule of thumb is to retard timing by 1-2 degrees for every 50hp of nitrous. The best way is to base it off of combustion efficiency and reading spark plugs, but most tuners won't do this for such a small shot of nitrous.
Most companies are conservative with their jetting recommendations so you have a lot of room for safety. They usually have a nitrous to fuel ratio of 5.5-6.0. I was running an 8 to 1 ratio without any tuning, but your mileage will vary. This is the nitrous calculator I use:
Thanks again!
Ok, so I just typed out a pretty long response with lots of questions that I don't expect anyone I'm not paying to deal with, so here is the short(er) version instead.
We are now getting to the point where I'll admit this (tuning) is getting over my head. I'm confused by the first line of the quote above combined with the last line. This car will be driven 99.99% of the time without using nitrous, so from a performance standpoint, I am way more concerned about maximizing power and efficiency under a normal (not using nitrous) driving condition versus the condition of being on nitrous. My take away is that tuning can maximize performance for one condition at the expense of the other. Disappointing, but no big deal.
My concern is that while many have said a 75 shot is perfectly safe on a completely stock car, it sounds like a tune focusing on my NA mods might make that 75 shot significantly less safe, as I will be trading safety and longevity for one condition at the expense of the other as well. Is that true, or from a safety standpoint does tuning safety for both go hand in hand? Or am just over thinking it with only a 75 shot?
Thanks again!
Ok, so I just typed out a pretty long response with lots of questions that I don't expect anyone I'm not paying to deal with, so here is the short(er) version instead.
We are now getting to the point where I'll admit this (tuning) is getting over my head. I'm confused by the first line of the quote above combined with the last line. This car will be driven 99.99% of the time without using nitrous, so from a performance standpoint, I am way more concerned about maximizing power and efficiency under a normal (not using nitrous) driving condition versus the condition of being on nitrous. My take away is that tuning can maximize performance for one condition at the expense of the other. Disappointing, but no big deal.
My concern is that while many have said a 75 shot is perfectly safe on a completely stock car, it sounds like a tune focusing on my NA mods might make that 75 shot significantly less safe, as I will be trading safety and longevity for one condition at the expense of the other as well. Is that true, or from a safety standpoint does tuning safety for both go hand in hand? Or am just over thinking it with only a 75 shot?
If you are using a tuning solution that can have multiple maps, then it is a non-issue. Such solutions include Uprev where you can have an NA map and a Nitrous map. The nitrous map will not have the timing advanced. The reduced horsepower with retarding timing can be negated by running a much larger shot than you can normally run without tuning.
An example, lets say that the maximum safe shot without tuning is 75 hp since the ECU can only retard timing so much, when you tune, the tuner can retard timing further, making a larger shot safer. Now you can run a 125 hp shot, while only losing a small amount of hp due to timing retard. The numbers given are just for argument sake.
01-10-2017, 02:10 PM
