M3racer36

You obviously know nothing of drag racing. The only reason manuals go faster than auto's in stock form is the size of the stall. If he was to put a big stall in this car he would hurt you 6 spd guys feelings. Please, no more magazine bench racing.

Congrats on the pass, that thing is starting to move.

M3racer36

As in waterford the development?

neffster

iTrader: (2)

Check this link... http://g35driver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77707

done12many2

iTrader: (33)

The stall alone is not going to make an automatic run the same as a manual. Now if we were talking about a 4 speed automatic versus a 4 speed manual, then one might want to consider the automatic due to consistantsy, but that is not what he was talking about.



A 6-speed manual has a gearing advantage over a 5-speed automatic. Yes, an increased stall will bring the automatic to a greater launch, but the great thing about a clutch is that you choose your stall so to speak. Automatics when properly setup can be quick, as proven by this thread, but given equal setups, the manual when driven properly will always be quicker.



The great things about automatics is that once you figure it out, you know what you can expect each and every time. Obviously this cannot be said with a manual due to more chance for operator error.



12.4 @ 112 in an automatic on street tires is awesome!!



By the way, what size tires were used?

M3racer36

Please tell me why ppl like Dr.roof our knocking full seconds off their times with autos. Yes maby for a bolt on application the 6 spd will out run the auto. In high hp applications the auto will run quicker. Take a look at all street cars that drag race and check out the times. I know the auto's own the viper and supra world or maby I just imagined that. Autos take less power to the ground to get to a certain e.t., its been proven over and over again.

I guess thats why heffner performance knocked off almost a full second when going from his 6 spd to an auto. Watch when Ryan woon swaps to a auto this year I gaurantee it will be low 8's if not high 7s why his 6 spd has only only done high 8s so far.

cj350

iTrader: (2)

I love this thread...you can learn a lot.......

done12many2

iTrader: (33)

Congradulations! You answered your own question! What is this thread about? It's about a fantastic run by cj350 in his bolt on, Vortec supercharged, 350Z. Sounds like what you were describing when you said "Yes maby for a bolt on application the 6 spd will out run the auto"

Not trying to insult your intelligence what-so-ever but you speak of a lot of generic stuff vice technical, which leads me to believe that you may just assume a lot of stuff.

Actually you contradicted yourself quite a bit in your first paragraph and were totally mistaken on your last statement in that paragraph.

Just as any car can be made to be as fast as you want it to be with money, an automatic can be made to be faster then a manual.

Automatics by nature suffer a slight bit more drivetrain loss at the wheels than manuals do and I have no clue where you got the following info:
Now let me say it a little slower for you. Given equal setups, a manual version with 6 gears will have a mechanical advantage over an auto with 5 gears. It is really quite simple. Now if you stall it out and throw in more power, an auto will consistantly beat the manual. Of course we would no longer be talking about equal setups if the auto had more power.

If you want me to break that down for you, I will. All you have to do is reply to my quote with some additional contradictions and innaccurate information and I will understand that you need it a little slower!

If you sit back and think about it, cj350 did something awesome! He ran a 12.4 @ 112 on street tires with an automatic. Do you know why this is so great? Because it doesn't happen so often in automatics 350Zs!! You've been a registered member long enough to know that 6-speed 350Zs are generally quicker than 5-speed autos.

Regardless, fantastic job cj350! What tires and tire sizes were you using on this run?

96sleeper

Dude, look up times for a LS1 camaro or firebird. 4spd auto vs. 6spd manual. In the 1/4 mile, the stock autos run around the same times as the 6spd. If you did normal bolt-ons to both, the auto wins every time. It is no contest. The 6spd car will trap higher showing in would win in an interstate race, but the auto wins the 1/4 mile. In lower hp cars, yes the manual is faster. In higher hp cars, the auto is faster.

MadBoost

iTrader: (12)

That is exactly the point he was making after watching and seeing what other Vortech equipped cars, mainly 6mt's, were doing. He is running OEM factory tires still and the car does have more in it as soon as the track opens again. Between four passes he has went from 12.9 to a 12.4 learning how to drive it. Simply driving to the track and home.

done12many2

iTrader: (33)

Why do people keep bringing up examples of other cars anyways? We are talking about the Nissan 350 Z. Man, I can envision you and M3racer36 having an arguement on who has a bigger gun. Before you know it, your arguement would go from a conversation about your collections of pistols, to knowing a guy who once shot a cannon from his hip. You guys keep talking about things other than the Nissan 350 Z.

But since you brought it up, let's talk about it.

Actually the M6 versus A4 is an ongoing debate in the LT1/LS1 world. Most agree that the A4 auto is easier and much more consistent, which by the way often wins races, then the M6 manual. However, it is commonly known that a well driven M6 has an advantage over the A4. Of course, as I stated earlier, when you stall those autos up and add power, even a well driven M6 with less power will more than likely lose even if driven well.

Your example of the LS1's demonstrates my point even more. As I have learned through research on LS1 forums, the A4 tranny puts down roughly 5 to 7 percent less power to the rear wheels than the M6. In addition to the additional power that the M6 has to the rear wheels, it can use more of its power efficiently due to the fact that the LS1 motor stays in it's optimal powerband better due to better gearing.

As a former LT1 and LS1 owner, I would have to say that the M6 is tougher to drive to it's full potential than the 6-speed in the 350 Z, but when done right, will destroy a M4 of equal crank power.

What is a higher trap an indicator of? MORE POWER! Once again, the M6 is putting down more power to the ground than the A4 with all other variables equal.

The M6's are usally not launched as well as A4's which generally results in the higher trap and higher E.T. Yes most of the A4's get lower E.T.s with slower traps, but this is typical of a car getting a better launch with better control down the track. However, if you harness that M6 power with a great driver who can launch it, guess what? More power to the ground wins as long as it's driven well.

Wait a minute! Didn't I see this somewhere before? Oh yeah, you said this yourself in June of 2005 in this thread: https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....8&page=8&pp=20

"I tend to agree with the spinning=more trap, but not all occasions. My fastest trap speed to date in my car was one of my worst 60 ft times that day. For the longest time my highest trap speed was a run on my old stock clutch, where I slipped the clutch too much on the launch and it started slipping on the 1-2 shift, and really bad on the 2-3 shift where the rpm's stayed high until the car caught up engine, I thought it was a terrible run, and the time was terrible, but the trap was high."

I notice that both you and M3racer36 say this, and it is partially true. But since we are talking about lower horsepower cars, why do you guys keep bringing up higher horsepower cars? What is lower and what is higher? Seems like more generic blanket statements that cover you either way.

done12many2

iTrader: (33)

Yeah, I was trying to show to a couple other members that this is an exception to the rule in the 350 Z. This is one quick auto and cj350 did a great job. I believe that he will continue to get even faster with the same setup and some time! And hopefully he will continue to push the envelope with street tires!

Alberto

iTrader: (14)

This and Sin4u33 Procharged 360whp ran low 12's. Sin ran 12.3 @ 113.9 with a 1.9X 60ft on stock sized street tires. Congrats on the time, but all you guys thinking just a stall on an otherwise stock auto will make it faster than a manual are crazy. The problem is your comparing one of the fastest stock auto Z's with other non drivers in 6 speeds. We all know racing auto trannys can be made faster than a manual but a stock tranny will not shift faster or be faster down the track against a WELL DRIVEN 6mt.

If any of you want to prove me wrong do it with 350Z proof. I have bolt-ons, stock headers, stock cams, and with a 1.96 60ft I run 13.13 @ 107mph. Now I can think of many other highly mod'd autos with simialr 60ft's but no where near the e.t. and def not the trap....

Not hating on autos, or the guy that ran the nice time in his Z, just wanted to share my opinion on the 6MT vs Auto debate, and guys please stop bringing other cars into this-keep it strickly Z.

My final opinion 6MT with a good driver (rare to find btw) > 5AT with a good driver (believe it or not also rare to fine)

screener

iTrader: (10)

Hey don't rub it in I'm still trying to get 104 traps ,you got 1 fast bolt on 350z Alberto. :

M3racer36

Keep trying to explain physics, why other ppl keep proving your wrong. Please take a look in the viper and supra world, you know where actually fast cars exist. They are perfect examples. Heffner performance was running 8.80s with their six speed, swapped in a auto and dropped in to the 7s. EXACT SAME SETUP, nothing powerwise was changed. Dr roof then did the exact same thing. Like I said ryan woon is the fastest six speed supra in the nation and Im sure when he switches to a auto you will see a good second come off. I guess these guys dont know what theyre doing, you and your 14 second 350 know more than they do. If the six speed is faster than the auto why are all these guys switching?

We keep comparing other cars because I have yet to see a built auto with a stall in a 350z.

fowlman01

iTrader: (1)

Alberto, I had talked to you about a guy out here (Corsair) that I used to beat all the time with my 5AT until he used your shifting method. (this is head to head racing) We were equiped about the same except my car weighs a bit more. He started turning better times when he power shifted and started turning slightly better times than me. That showed how driving ability changed the factor. (he now has cats, drag radials , spacer and is turning consistant 13.4's) The 5AT sucks off some horsepower, but adds consistancy. I dynoed with another Z with 6MT and exactly the same equipment within 10 minutes of each other. My Z, 226 rwhp (low) 248 rwt. His 6MT 236 rwhp and 226 rwt. In my case i think the extra torque makes my car run the 1/4 pretty well for the minor mods I have. I do very well in bracket racing, but it didn't happen over night. I had to practice a lot with my 5AT and I still don't have it down.
I dial in at 13.85 - 13.90 depending on the conditions.

I beat 6MT Z's with my chick riding with me at the drags, but only because 90 percent of the guys that go out there can't drive. It's not just 5AT v 6MT, you would have have two drivers with equal skills. I have a 5AT because I have a bad left knee, but I love the way it runs on a road course too.

mahool

now the comparison I feel is gonna go out the window.....people keep saying 5at vs. 6mt....but the fact is the 5at on the drag strip is used like a F1 tiptronic trans.......majority of people on the track use it in the Tiptronic mode......if used in the full auto mode you will see way different times......once Cj350 does his valve trane upgrade (when I pay him his loot, for loosing the bet) it is going to shift alot closer to a 6MT....then it goes from 5Tip vs 6MT...which is faster??????

the fact is Nissan designed an amazing car that is almost equal either in 5AT or 6MT, which is taking up three pages of discussions on the z forums....be happy....good thread!!

P.S. Cj350 used to have an M3 e36 euro model with a Manual Tranny

Zexy

iTrader: (55)

Yeah but most of the time you do not mention this time was on slicks

done12many2

iTrader: (33)

Quote:

Originally Posted by M3racer36

Keep trying to explain physics, why other ppl keep proving your wrong. Please take a look in the viper and supra world, you know where actually fast cars exist. They are perfect examples. Heffner performance was running 8.80s with their six speed, swapped in a auto and dropped in to the 7s. EXACT SAME SETUP, nothing powerwise was changed. Dr roof then did the exact same thing. Like I said ryan woon is the fastest six speed supra in the nation and Im sure when he switches to a auto you will see a good second come off. I guess these guys dont know what theyre doing, you and your 14 second 350 know more than they do. If the six speed is faster than the auto why are all these guys switching?

We keep comparing other cars because I have yet to see a built auto with a stall in a 350z.

Once again, you keep talking about other cars, when this thread is about an outstanding automatic 350 Z. Maybe you are hoping to one day be right when the FLUX CAPACITOR PROPELLED, DITHIUM CRYSTAL CONTROLLED, SUPER DUPER BUILT, AUTO WITH A STALL comes along?

Quote:

Originally Posted by fowlman01

Alberto, I had talked to you about a guy out here (Corsair) that I used to beat all the time with my 5AT until he used your shifting method. (this is head to head racing) We were equiped about the same except my car weighs a bit more. He started turning better times when he power shifted and started turning slightly better times than me. That showed how driving ability changed the factor. (he now has cats, drag radials , spacer and is turning consistant 13.4's) The 5AT sucks off some horsepower, but adds consistancy. I dynoed with another Z with 6MT and exactly the same equipment within 10 minutes of each other. My Z, 226 rwhp (low) 248 rwt. His 6MT 236 rwhp and 226 rwt. In my case i think the extra torque makes my car run the 1/4 pretty well for the minor mods I have. I do very well in bracket racing, but it didn't happen over night. I had to practice a lot with my 5AT and I still don't have it down.
I dial in at 13.85 - 13.90 depending on the conditions.

I beat 6MT Z's with my chick riding with me at the drags, but only because 90 percent of the guys that go out there can't drive. It's not just 5AT v 6MT, you would have have two drivers with equal skills. I have a 5AT because I have a bad left knee, but I love the way it runs on a road course too.

READ THIS example above very slowly as you seem to have a little trouble understanding things. I only say this as you keep repeating yourself.

Notice that he used to beat his buddy very consistantly until his buddy learned how to drive the stick thanks to Alberto. Then the tides changed. This guy talks about facts from his OWN experience therefore I tend to believe him. Beside not many people lie about the fact that they lost!

Additionally, just as you ASSUME that you are right because you read a lot of different stories about different cars, you ASSUMED that my Z is a 14 second car. Just like the rest of the useless information spewing out of your mouth, you were indeed wrong. My Z hasn’t been in the 14’s or 13’s for a really long time. Unlike you, I will show you what I have done. You will in turn show me what a Viper, Supra, or someone at Heffner's Performance has done.

https://my350z.com/forum/attachment....chmentid=73120

I don't think 12.5 @ 112 is bad for a small progressively controlled nitrous shot with 245/40/18 Goodyear street tires.

Without the nitrous I ran 13.4 @ 106.9x on the same street tires.

How about yours?

You hint that other people are proving physics wrong. I think they call that magic!

So keep on repeating yourself about Vipers and Supras as well as Heffner Performance. The great thing is you keep reaching to other cars in hopes of trying to make a point with our cars. The NISSAN 350Z. <-----Try to keep that in mind as you Internet race.

Have you ever raced at a track? You strike me as the kind of guy who never has as you keep alluding to other people’s stories and experiences. Tell me your story!

We can simply settle this if you will spend a little time researching THIS forum instead of others. Search for which is predominantly quicker. You will see that you are a lot like a guided missile with no guidance. You've taken off all right, but nobody knows where the hell you are going!

Let me let you in on a little clue. NOBODY here cares about what happens in a viper, supra, or at Heffner’s Performance. 99% here have one thing in common. We own 350 Zs. Get it?

If you come up with anything more than some story you heard third sh!tter on the left, then please educate me, as I will immediately rush down to the dealership and trade my 6mt in for an Auto.

As a matter of fact, why don't everyone just go trade in their manuals for autos. This guy has figured out that we have all been fooled this entire time into thinking that more gears is actually better!

Alberto

iTrader: (14)

I didnt have to, thats why I said any auto with a similar 60ft to my (crappy on slicks) 1.96. People have cut that on stock tires in Z's and have cut 1.9's NA on street tires with auto's. I dont care if the auto was on slicks, street tires, 2 spares, whatever, find me one with bolt-ons or more mods than me NA with a similar 60ft and I guarantee you it isnt/wont be faster.

Sam405

iTrader: (8)

Nice Run! Any vids?