Hastings! August 25-26
Hastings! August 25-26
So, I have to beg in the next day or two to get that weekend off (Aug 25-26), but it looks like it will happens, and I'll be going to Hastings for NASA day.
About a 300 mile drive or so, depending on where you are coming from.
Anyone interested?
On a side note, I've been looking at getting race wheels and tires, and then a trailer and trailer hitch to tow them with.
Anyone have opinions on the BF Goodrich g-Force R1's I linked to, or suggestions for a different race tire (must fit 225-245/xx/18 and 265-285/xx/18)
About a 300 mile drive or so, depending on where you are coming from.
Anyone interested?
On a side note, I've been looking at getting race wheels and tires, and then a trailer and trailer hitch to tow them with.
Anyone have opinions on the BF Goodrich g-Force R1's I linked to, or suggestions for a different race tire (must fit 225-245/xx/18 and 265-285/xx/18)
WOW! You're really getting into NASA and HPD!!! 
Great!!! As far as a wheel and race tire best bet is to talk to David or Will. I've been fond of Gram Light wheels as they weight pretty light.
Great!!! As far as a wheel and race tire best bet is to talk to David or Will. I've been fond of Gram Light wheels as they weight pretty light.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 358
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From: Denver
Don't you love small towns and race tracks?
Hastings track is in the dirt square on this google map.
refresh after you maximize the browser.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...wloc=addr&om=1
Let us know how you like the track.
Hastings track is in the dirt square on this google map.
refresh after you maximize the browser.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...wloc=addr&om=1
Let us know how you like the track.
New Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,258
Likes: 4
From: Golden, CO
Unfortunately Hastings will be a last minute decision for me, based on work schedules and some other non-car-related things. I've heard that it's a very fun track, and I want to try it out.
For track wheels, a lot of people like the 5Zigen FN01RC, or the Enkei RPF-1 in 17" diameter & about 9" in width. You mentioned wanting a tire to fit on a particular wheel size, but if you can increase the budget a little bit (which is what I SHOULD have done back when I was making the decision that you're working through now), you'll find that suddenly there are a lot more options. If you can run a width and offset that lets you run 275 tires all the way around, it's even better, as most people have found that to give them more balanced handling and much more even tire wear, as you can then rotate all 4 corners with the same size tire.
A quick search should turn up what width/offset/potential spacer combo might work best, as there are lots of guys here running that combo. I'd post some links but I'm out the door to work right now.
For tires, I've been pretty happy with the Nitto NT01. The Toyo RA-1 is another popular, relatively affordable choice. It gives up some stickiness to the super-hardcore tires like the Kumho V710 or the Hoosier, but it last MUCH longer. Pricier options like the Yokohama Advan have also received good reviews. I haven't heard much on those BFG's, but I'm sure they're a good tire, also...the big questions to ask are how many heat cycles they're good for, and whether or not they have a directional tread (a non-directional tread lets you swap right front with left front to help even out the wear).
Welcome to the madness!
For track wheels, a lot of people like the 5Zigen FN01RC, or the Enkei RPF-1 in 17" diameter & about 9" in width. You mentioned wanting a tire to fit on a particular wheel size, but if you can increase the budget a little bit (which is what I SHOULD have done back when I was making the decision that you're working through now), you'll find that suddenly there are a lot more options. If you can run a width and offset that lets you run 275 tires all the way around, it's even better, as most people have found that to give them more balanced handling and much more even tire wear, as you can then rotate all 4 corners with the same size tire.
A quick search should turn up what width/offset/potential spacer combo might work best, as there are lots of guys here running that combo. I'd post some links but I'm out the door to work right now.
For tires, I've been pretty happy with the Nitto NT01. The Toyo RA-1 is another popular, relatively affordable choice. It gives up some stickiness to the super-hardcore tires like the Kumho V710 or the Hoosier, but it last MUCH longer. Pricier options like the Yokohama Advan have also received good reviews. I haven't heard much on those BFG's, but I'm sure they're a good tire, also...the big questions to ask are how many heat cycles they're good for, and whether or not they have a directional tread (a non-directional tread lets you swap right front with left front to help even out the wear).
Welcome to the madness!
Well, hopefully things work out and you can make it!
As for the wheels, I wasn't looking for anything expensive, but they have to be at least 18" to fit over my brakes.
275's all around; that would certainly reduce understeer, and as you said, make it possible to swap all around.
Something I have to think about. Anyways, this won't be happening before Hastings; I think it's more a winter project to build a decent trailer and all.
As for the wheels, I wasn't looking for anything expensive, but they have to be at least 18" to fit over my brakes.
275's all around; that would certainly reduce understeer, and as you said, make it possible to swap all around.
Something I have to think about. Anyways, this won't be happening before Hastings; I think it's more a winter project to build a decent trailer and all.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 8,624
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From: Aurora, Colorado
Sorry that I won't be able to make the Hastings event, either. But it sounds like you're really ready to jump in with both feet, so good for you!
As for track wheels, GaryM05 has listed some good options. My own take on this subject is that if you're going to spend the $$, try to go for a forged race wheel. Yeah I know they're pricey, but as far as unsprung weight and overall wheel strength, nothing really beats a forged wheel! Try going two wheels off a race course at speed and you'll quickly find how easily cast wheels bend (don't ask me how I know). I found a good set of BBS-RGRs on the classifieds board and have never been happier with any purchase!
Tires- in the past, I've used R-compounds from Yokohama, Goodyear, BF Goodrich, Dunlop, Kumho, Hankook, Bridgestone and Nitto. All of them had their day as the lead dog at one time or another. The state-of-the-art with R-compounds is so astounding that the grip is now approaching that of a pure race slick! But longevity is the key and how many heat cycles a tire can take and still retain some grip is most important. Currently I'm trying some Kumho V710s and the Nitto NT01. There's no doubt the V710s are the better tire for overall grip, but I love the way the NT01s last! As for the R1s, they were once THE standard by which R-compounds were measured, but that was almost a decade ago. Only one way to find out: get both the NT01s and the R1s and give us the report!
BTW- as you saw at PMP in the spring Nissan Sport safety class, running 245/40-18s all around on the original Rays track wheels (8.0 F and 8.5 R) is possible and provides power oversteer at will. With the HP you have, I'd agree with GaryM05 and look to run 275s (with the right wheel offset and no smaller than a 9.5" width) all around.
Also, I should mention that I'll be headed to the Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course for the NASA National Championships in September. My entry has been confirmed (although I'm still pondering which class to enter) and I'd invite anyone from our local 350Z community to come out for a long road trip. There should be entries from around the country, with prize money on the line, so it should be an interesting time!
As for track wheels, GaryM05 has listed some good options. My own take on this subject is that if you're going to spend the $$, try to go for a forged race wheel. Yeah I know they're pricey, but as far as unsprung weight and overall wheel strength, nothing really beats a forged wheel! Try going two wheels off a race course at speed and you'll quickly find how easily cast wheels bend (don't ask me how I know). I found a good set of BBS-RGRs on the classifieds board and have never been happier with any purchase!
Tires- in the past, I've used R-compounds from Yokohama, Goodyear, BF Goodrich, Dunlop, Kumho, Hankook, Bridgestone and Nitto. All of them had their day as the lead dog at one time or another. The state-of-the-art with R-compounds is so astounding that the grip is now approaching that of a pure race slick! But longevity is the key and how many heat cycles a tire can take and still retain some grip is most important. Currently I'm trying some Kumho V710s and the Nitto NT01. There's no doubt the V710s are the better tire for overall grip, but I love the way the NT01s last! As for the R1s, they were once THE standard by which R-compounds were measured, but that was almost a decade ago. Only one way to find out: get both the NT01s and the R1s and give us the report!
BTW- as you saw at PMP in the spring Nissan Sport safety class, running 245/40-18s all around on the original Rays track wheels (8.0 F and 8.5 R) is possible and provides power oversteer at will. With the HP you have, I'd agree with GaryM05 and look to run 275s (with the right wheel offset and no smaller than a 9.5" width) all around.
Also, I should mention that I'll be headed to the Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course for the NASA National Championships in September. My entry has been confirmed (although I'm still pondering which class to enter) and I'd invite anyone from our local 350Z community to come out for a long road trip. There should be entries from around the country, with prize money on the line, so it should be an interesting time!
Last edited by dkmura; Jul 25, 2007 at 06:32 AM.
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Thanks for the advice. I'll be buying race wheels/tires over the winter, so I ahve some time to think about it.
Also, I was able to get the time off, so I will be there for sure!
Also, I was able to get the time off, so I will be there for sure!
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,258
Likes: 4
From: Golden, CO
Originally Posted by Dave 90TT
Well, hopefully things work out and you can make it!
As for the wheels, I wasn't looking for anything expensive, but they have to be at least 18" to fit over my brakes.
275's all around; that would certainly reduce understeer, and as you said, make it possible to swap all around.
Something I have to think about. Anyways, this won't be happening before Hastings; I think it's more a winter project to build a decent trailer and all.
As for the wheels, I wasn't looking for anything expensive, but they have to be at least 18" to fit over my brakes.
275's all around; that would certainly reduce understeer, and as you said, make it possible to swap all around.
Something I have to think about. Anyways, this won't be happening before Hastings; I think it's more a winter project to build a decent trailer and all.
What size Stoptechs did you get? 332's will fit under many 17" wheels, but if you went with the 355, then you're right, it's 18's only, with a disproportionally larger cost.
I'm getting pretty sick of all the HPDE and TT events that I can't attend, LOL! Dave you're killing my will power to invest money in my house and not my car.
I can't say much above what David M. and Gary have said, except to add a bit about running 275's all around. I understand the thinking behind this decision, but keep in mind that viewing this decision as an increase in oversteer might be more accurate than to say it is a reduction in understeer. My concern with this would simply be that you are TT, and running an equal size tire will create a relatively equal contact patch front and rear for sure, but with the rear at the same lateral limit of adhesion as the front in mid-corner there is nothing left to manage the percent slip induced by throttle for acceleration until you are much later in the turn as compared to a NA engine. My reference being Mike Kojima's summary of the car that started the 275's all the way around craze, when he tested SCC's Vortech Z (the one that posted an even 1.0 lateral G) and declared it "a slow, oversteering hell-beast around the track." The combination works great for power slides, though, which was the intent of running 275's at all four corners. The 1.0G measure was a side-effect, not the goal.
Just my .02 on this...
Will
(also thinks NT01's or RA1/R888's are the tires to get for their great grip and longer life compared to cheater slicks of the V710 and R6 variety, but if you have the cash to go all out, then by all means R6.)
I can't say much above what David M. and Gary have said, except to add a bit about running 275's all around. I understand the thinking behind this decision, but keep in mind that viewing this decision as an increase in oversteer might be more accurate than to say it is a reduction in understeer. My concern with this would simply be that you are TT, and running an equal size tire will create a relatively equal contact patch front and rear for sure, but with the rear at the same lateral limit of adhesion as the front in mid-corner there is nothing left to manage the percent slip induced by throttle for acceleration until you are much later in the turn as compared to a NA engine. My reference being Mike Kojima's summary of the car that started the 275's all the way around craze, when he tested SCC's Vortech Z (the one that posted an even 1.0 lateral G) and declared it "a slow, oversteering hell-beast around the track." The combination works great for power slides, though, which was the intent of running 275's at all four corners. The 1.0G measure was a side-effect, not the goal.
Just my .02 on this...
Will
(also thinks NT01's or RA1/R888's are the tires to get for their great grip and longer life compared to cheater slicks of the V710 and R6 variety, but if you have the cash to go all out, then by all means R6.)
Well, I looked at how much I could spend on wheels, and decided to go on the less expensive side. 18x8.5 and 18x9.5 ASA JH8's. They are not super heavy, 23.5 and 24.5 lbs, and they were relatively cheap. Got 245/40/18's for the front, and 265/35/18's for the rear, BFGoodrich g-Force R1's with heat cycling. I relalized I could spend 5000+ on a wheel/tire combo, and decided it just wasn't worth it, so I got the above for 1950 delivered to my front door, mounted, balanced, and heat cycled.
The sperate racing tires will certainly give me a better grip on the track, and have the added bonus of not chewing up my street tires on the track, which, quite honestly, was the main impetus for getting race wheels and tires.
Trailer is getting delivered today, have to put it together, and decied what all I want to put on it (lockable box for the jackl and other tools, etc...) and the hitch is sitting in my garage, waiting to be mounted on my G. I'm not looking forward to cutting the small hole in the lower rear bumper that is required for the hitch mount, but it is mostly not noticeable.
Anyways, hopefully I will see some familiar faces there at Hastings! My wife is tagging along this time, and she would love to have someone to talk to, as would I.
The sperate racing tires will certainly give me a better grip on the track, and have the added bonus of not chewing up my street tires on the track, which, quite honestly, was the main impetus for getting race wheels and tires.
Trailer is getting delivered today, have to put it together, and decied what all I want to put on it (lockable box for the jackl and other tools, etc...) and the hitch is sitting in my garage, waiting to be mounted on my G. I'm not looking forward to cutting the small hole in the lower rear bumper that is required for the hitch mount, but it is mostly not noticeable.
Anyways, hopefully I will see some familiar faces there at Hastings! My wife is tagging along this time, and she would love to have someone to talk to, as would I.
That's too cool, Dave. Having seperate tires and rims for the track is nice, and a trailer to haul it all in makes it even better. Nice pick on the tires, btw. Please let us all know your impressions of them. And don't forget pics of your new wheels.
I'm sure you and your wife will have a blast!
Will
I'm sure you and your wife will have a blast!
Will
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,258
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From: Golden, CO
Wow, nice move on the wheels, tires, hitch, and trailer! I'll be curious to hear how the hitch works out...it's something I've been thinking about doing to my car for this very reason, but I've had a hard time finding a design I've been happy with that didn't require a destructive install.
As for Hastings, it will be an absolute last-minute decision for me. Between work schedules and family visiting, it'll be tough to say before the week of the event whether I'll be able to make it.
As for Hastings, it will be an absolute last-minute decision for me. Between work schedules and family visiting, it'll be tough to say before the week of the event whether I'll be able to make it.
Gary, I really hope you can make it, because they need more people, and may have to cancel it due to not enough folks. There's only about 50 cars registered so far, maybe 8 in HPDE3 and 8 in HPDE 4. Small groups.
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Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Golden, CO
Originally Posted by Dave 90TT
Gary, I really hope you can make it, because they need more people, and may have to cancel it due to not enough folks. There's only about 50 cars registered so far, maybe 8 in HPDE3 and 8 in HPDE 4. Small groups.
It will really have to be a last-minute decision for me (if they don't cancel the event) based on project work at the office...I've got a huge deadline one week after the Hastings event, and something tells me that I'll find myself working that weekend.