Don't know much about the UTEC, eManage or APEXi AFR controller right now, trying to learn... been searching but theres so much out there about specific problems and whatnot I can't sift through all of it for an overview. So my question is this:

I'm trying to tune my car, bought an AEM wideband gauge today. I have intake/plenum/headers/cats/exhaust and need a tune badly and I'd like to be able to do it myself as I don't have the cash for a shop. I'm gonna use a camcorder in conjunction with my wideband gauge and RPMs to datalog. What should I use to tune the AFR?

 

i would suggest a UTEC... talk to AAM to get it, it will fully allow you to control the timing and fuel. it should be right around or under 900 dollars.

 

holy crap 900... try again

 

being broke and not knowing jack about tuning sounds like a bad idea to me. Just save up and do it the right way

 

ok I shouldnt have said I know nothing about tuning, I meant I know nothing about the units available to the 350z and the pros/cons of each... and by broke I mean I dont wanna spend over 400 on this.

 

honestly you need alot of time on a dyno with a utec since every change done isnt always whats happening... been there done that and sold it waiting for Unichip or AEM, And i even know how to tune many FI systems

 

New the emanage ultimate and UTEC are close in price when you compare adding the harnesses you need for the EU since the UTEC is plug and play. In the end I would say UTEC if you go new. I was lucky enough to wait and watch for a good used deal and got an EU for a killer deal including the harnesses and such. One nice thing about the EU is that you can hook up nearly any A/F controller to the EU to datalog, while the UTEC requires a specific UTEC wideband tuner option to datalog. The datalogging feature and eash of use of the EU software is a big plus allowing for nice graphs that you can overlay and use to figure out just where in the tuning maps you need to make changes. The UTEC has better timing control capabilities but still uses an older interface for making adjustments and logging data. In the end they will both get you where you want to go. The EU may be easier in the end for actual tuning adjustments and getting it right but may be a little harder to install without the autosport harness. I would suggest watching for a good used deal and you may get lucky if one of the FI guys go to a standalone

 

these cars dont work well with being broke...

 

There will be a new EM system available within the coming months that should pretty much revolutionize the tuning aspect for the 350Z. I'll give you guys hint - it's based off re-writing the EEPROM / stock subroutines for the stock ECU

The Utec is a decent system, but has significant draw backs as it is not a true stand-alone, it still works with the stock computer and still ends up "fighting" with the stock computer. This is why many of the big-power Subaru's and EVO's have transitioned away from the Utec. Overall it's an ok system for a mildly modified car, but I would stay away if you're FI.

The E-manage is a pretty standard piggy, I will be testing the Emanage ultimate in my car shortly, although if I had a dollar for every Greddy T/T 350Z that was pinging at 3500RPM...

The Apexi S-AFC/ new S-AFC is just a MAF intercept. Keep in mind every time you scale down the MAF signal you are increasing ignition timing. This usually ends up with disastrous consequences of FI cars with MAF.

Any stand-alone systems are pretty much recommended for more "hard core" enthusiasts only, there are a lot of downsides with stand-alone systems, and a real stand-alone tune encompassing all load sites, fuel economy, etc. usually takes many many days. Most tuners will setup the basic driveability aspects, and then the power tunes, neglecting OL freeway cruising and many partial throttle transitions which often causes problems for the average street car.

And please make sure you have your car tuned by a reputable shopk, and preferably on a loading dyno. We encounter many cars (such as STI, EVO's, etc) on a monthly basis that have been very poorly tuned to the point where some have suffered engine damage. These are coming from DIY "tuners" as well as other shops. Always invest in a knock detection device (PLX or Knock Link) as well as a Wide-band 02 and EGT gauge if you're going to tune yourself.

Hope this helps,

Gary
Gruppe-S

 

More info please? Company? I have been a Honda guy for a long time, and I love what they have been able to do with the OBD1 ECU with Hondata, Uberdata, Crome, and Neptune. It sounds like what you are talking about is a program and device that can flash the ECU's EEPROM just like Technosquare and AAM can do. That is what I have been waiting for since the day I bought my car as I have never been happy with a piggyback solution (UTEC and EU) since I have full control over my Honda through the reburning of chips. If this is true I think I will save the $600 I was about to spend for a reflash in the hopes I can do my own tuning.

 

good post group s

 

Engine management and good tuning is an essential part of squeezing all HP from these cars. However with the mod list that you stated, you are not in NEED of an engine management, a simple reflash can help. BUT, if you're up to spending the money, and have a good tuner to do it for you, I say go for the higher quality engine management, as it is adaptable to practically anything you can do to your car.

 

Hey Gary,

I rarely jump into other vendor's posts, but I just had to correct something here. Your statments are false, and I wanted to correct the misinformation. The UTEC "acts" as a full standalone under boost, or even under vacuum if you chose to set it up that way. Once the UTEC takes over, the tuner sets the actual injector pulse widths, and the actual ignition timing, exactly as you would with any stand-alone engine management system. You are not "fighting" the stock ECU, as it is complete out of the picture, with respect to ignition timing, fuel, and knock control.

Take some time to familiarize yourself with the UTEC for the 350Z, and I think you will change your opinion of it. It is very different from the UTEC units offered in the Suburu world. The 350Z Utec offers full fuel and timing control, and is seamless in its transitions.

In regards to the original poster's questions, if $400 is your limit, the only option is a used eManage Ultimate setup, or a new SAFC. For NA self tuning, the EU might be a user friendly option for you.

 

Your post is partially true, but you failed to fill in some of the blanks. I have read the complete manual and fully understand the UTEC. The UTEC operates in 2 modes: MAF mode and speed density mode. Now if you just buy the UTEC then you HAVE to use MAF mode which acts just like any other piggy back and simply modifies the MAF signal the ECU sees. Now if you purchase the extra UTEC map sensor then you can run off speed density mode where yes you can individually control the injectors and coils. Now this is obviously what a person with a boosted car will want to do since using a MAP sensor over a MAF sensor is definitely the way to go. It is also an option with an NA car and you could tune from -15 to 0 vacuum, but as mentioned everywhere in the UTEC manual if you are NA you are supposed to use MAF mode. Even using speed density at idle or high vacuum it is still modifying the MAF signal just as a piggyback does. So getting offended when someone calls the UTEC a piggyback is not justified. It IS a piggyback plus a little. It can hide the signals sent from the ECU which is what it does when it starts running the injectors and coils by itself. So everybody is partially right . I still want full control over my ECU, however.

 

^^^Wrong again^^^ You know I like you.

In MAF mode with the UTEC, you can run the UTEC in "Open Loop Fueling Mode", with MAF as the load indicator, rather than MAP. In this case, as in my previous FI example, the UTEC acts as a full standalone. With an NA car, using MAF as the load indicator, and open loop fueling, you set the injector pulse widths, and the ignition timing, just as you would with an FI car, and a full stand alone.

NA tuners have the option of running a simple MAF offset, or by taking complete control over fuel and timing, via "open loop fueling mode".

 

I wouldn't go that far. Yes it is true that in MAF mode you can utilize open loop fueling to adjust the injector pulse width based off of the MAF voltage and the offset in the fuel table so the ECU is technically not controling the injectors at that point. I will still call it a piggyback+ though. I am interested to see how well they have implemented the IAT and ECT corrections which are vital when using larger injectors as the Honda boys struggled with that for a long time in their programs. I might just have to buy a UTEC and find out for myself after I see how well it works and how easy it is to use on Jaime's car.

 

King Tut, you are wrong again!

In MAF mode, with "open loop fueling" mode enabled, you are DEFINATLEY setting the injector pulse widths, and actual timing. You are no longer doing offsets. THe stock ECU is out of the picture. I have tuned about 20 cars with the UTEC, both in MAF offset, and open loop fueling..both NA and FI, so I think I am qualified to make these statements.

The MAF signal is used as a load indicator only, and is not adjusted or tricked by the UTEC.

Not sure if I can make this any clearer.

 

No, I am correct. I think you are confused by what I meant when I said offset. The offset is the number you are typing into each individual cell which offsets the MAF voltage that the UTEC sees and then uses to calculate the injector pulse width from its own internal background map. So your statement about the MAF signal being used only as a load indicator is not entirely true. The MAF signal + offset is used as a lookup into the UTECs internal background map. I am reading directly off page 38 and 39 of the manual. As I mentioned I know that when in open loop fueling that the ECU is not used at all to drive the injectors or the coils.

 

ok guys, here is the test, i am going to start my car up cold and let it idle for about 15 seconds, then i will take off full throttle, now if this is piggybacked off the stock ECU then the car will run in limp mode till it reaches a certain coolant temp, if the car still runs limp then it is piggybacked, if the car drives well then it is fully controlling the IPW...

i will be back in ten minutes

 

ok so NA with the utec in MAF adjusting AND open loop fueling, my car ran in total limp mode until the car warmed up to about 135F it would not go anywhere just like when you try to do it with the stock ecu.

now i am thinking that the UTEC adjusts the MAF sensor voltage and trick the stock ecu into thinking the different voltage...

so if this is true it is a problem with the ecu cause it will still have the "learning mode" which i agree even more with cause i had the utec outta my car over night and the car would not run right for about a day and a half


where is jermaine??? not saying anyone is right or wrong here.... just trying to understand it more, i am going to order the MAP sensor and try to tune my car with -15 to 0 so it works better !!!

ok so next question. if you are controlling the own UTEC injector pulse widths, why do you type in MAF adjustments, why wouldnt it be set up to just actually type in the IPW like with speed density mode??