technosquare ECU w/93 octane?
technosquare ECU w/93 octane?
Considering getting the technosquare ECU upgrade ,I am in the midwest and our premium gas is 93octane. I am worried that the ECU flash is tuned for 91 octane since the company is based in cali.
Anyone know if the ECU take advantage of the 93 octane here?
Anyone know if the ECU take advantage of the 93 octane here?
Originally Posted by derek173
Considering getting the technosquare ECU upgrade ,I am in the midwest and our premium gas is 93octane. I am worried that the ECU flash is tuned for 91 octane since the company is based in cali.
Anyone know if the ECU take advantage of the 93 octane here?
Anyone know if the ECU take advantage of the 93 octane here?
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 984
Likes: 0
From: Marietta, Georgia
You really cannot go by the labeled octane on the pump because that is just a number created by the various marketing departments which they got from refiners every few years or just make up.
There are ZERO requirements for octane---- it is left up to marketeers.
The other problem is pump octane is an average of 2 numbers.......unfortunately only one [M or motor octane] is important to higher rpm [above 1200] power production.
M octane numbers are 2.5 times more expensive to increase than R octane numbers. So consumer fuel is very high in R components and as low as possible in M components.
Ethanol has a high Ron [107] vs a lowish Mon [89] so it looks good on surface AVERAGE =98 but is a mediocre blending agent at best compared to MTBE it has replaced.
http://www.ethanolrfa.org/objects/do...ternatives.pdf
Having high octane is not nearly as important as having a high BTU per gallon and .
Ethanol has 76,100 btu per gallon and MTBE has 93,500 btu per gallon. 23% higher
Unoxygenated gasoline average around 114,000 btu per gallon and 10% ethanolized gasoline is lucky to hit 110,000 btu per gallon. Resulting in at least a 3.5% power output drop.
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/rfgecon.htm
Just throwing a number round like 91 or 92 or 93 octane is pretty meaningless!
There are ZERO requirements for octane---- it is left up to marketeers.
The other problem is pump octane is an average of 2 numbers.......unfortunately only one [M or motor octane] is important to higher rpm [above 1200] power production.
M octane numbers are 2.5 times more expensive to increase than R octane numbers. So consumer fuel is very high in R components and as low as possible in M components.
Ethanol has a high Ron [107] vs a lowish Mon [89] so it looks good on surface AVERAGE =98 but is a mediocre blending agent at best compared to MTBE it has replaced.
http://www.ethanolrfa.org/objects/do...ternatives.pdf
Having high octane is not nearly as important as having a high BTU per gallon and .
Ethanol has 76,100 btu per gallon and MTBE has 93,500 btu per gallon. 23% higher
Unoxygenated gasoline average around 114,000 btu per gallon and 10% ethanolized gasoline is lucky to hit 110,000 btu per gallon. Resulting in at least a 3.5% power output drop.
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/rfgecon.htm
Just throwing a number round like 91 or 92 or 93 octane is pretty meaningless!
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
From: Kansas City, MO
Not quite.
In the US, fuel grades are monitored fairly closely, and no, RON/MON is not "created by marketing departments". They are worldwide test standards. The only differences are the temperature and RPM used during the testing (MON being higher than RON on both counts).
Also, you seem confusing in what you are saying regarding fuel energy. Yes, ethanol has less, but what does that have to do with this topic? Diesel has more, big deal. That has nothing to do with his concerns.
Read this:
http://www.btinternet.com/~madmole/R...RONMONPON.html
Note that it is written by a brittish guy, so when he says "our fuel/petrol" he means brittish, and "theirs" means the USA's.
To the original poster, yes, if you tell them to tune for 93 octane, they can advance timing slightly more and get you a very slight boost in power. Honestly, though, I wouldn't tune for 93 simply because if you ever get stuck somewhere (or take a trip) with 91, you could get knock/pinging due to the lower octane.
In the US, fuel grades are monitored fairly closely, and no, RON/MON is not "created by marketing departments". They are worldwide test standards. The only differences are the temperature and RPM used during the testing (MON being higher than RON on both counts).
Also, you seem confusing in what you are saying regarding fuel energy. Yes, ethanol has less, but what does that have to do with this topic? Diesel has more, big deal. That has nothing to do with his concerns.
Read this:
http://www.btinternet.com/~madmole/R...RONMONPON.html
Note that it is written by a brittish guy, so when he says "our fuel/petrol" he means brittish, and "theirs" means the USA's.
To the original poster, yes, if you tell them to tune for 93 octane, they can advance timing slightly more and get you a very slight boost in power. Honestly, though, I wouldn't tune for 93 simply because if you ever get stuck somewhere (or take a trip) with 91, you could get knock/pinging due to the lower octane.
Originally Posted by Q45tech
You really cannot go by the labeled octane on the pump because that is just a number created by the various marketing departments which they got from refiners every few years or just make up.
There are ZERO requirements for octane---- it is left up to marketeers.
The other problem is pump octane is an average of 2 numbers.......unfortunately only one [M or motor octane] is important to higher rpm [above 1200] power production.
M octane numbers are 2.5 times more expensive to increase than R octane numbers. So consumer fuel is very high in R components and as low as possible in M components.
Ethanol has a high Ron [107] vs a lowish Mon [89] so it looks good on surface AVERAGE =98 but is a mediocre blending agent at best compared to MTBE it has replaced.
http://www.ethanolrfa.org/objects/do...ternatives.pdf
Having high octane is not nearly as important as having a high BTU per gallon and .
Ethanol has 76,100 btu per gallon and MTBE has 93,500 btu per gallon. 23% higher
Unoxygenated gasoline average around 114,000 btu per gallon and 10% ethanolized gasoline is lucky to hit 110,000 btu per gallon. Resulting in at least a 3.5% power output drop.
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/rfgecon.htm
Just throwing a number round like 91 or 92 or 93 octane is pretty meaningless!
There are ZERO requirements for octane---- it is left up to marketeers.
The other problem is pump octane is an average of 2 numbers.......unfortunately only one [M or motor octane] is important to higher rpm [above 1200] power production.
M octane numbers are 2.5 times more expensive to increase than R octane numbers. So consumer fuel is very high in R components and as low as possible in M components.
Ethanol has a high Ron [107] vs a lowish Mon [89] so it looks good on surface AVERAGE =98 but is a mediocre blending agent at best compared to MTBE it has replaced.
http://www.ethanolrfa.org/objects/do...ternatives.pdf
Having high octane is not nearly as important as having a high BTU per gallon and .
Ethanol has 76,100 btu per gallon and MTBE has 93,500 btu per gallon. 23% higher
Unoxygenated gasoline average around 114,000 btu per gallon and 10% ethanolized gasoline is lucky to hit 110,000 btu per gallon. Resulting in at least a 3.5% power output drop.
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/rfgecon.htm
Just throwing a number round like 91 or 92 or 93 octane is pretty meaningless!
Originally Posted by Kiamo
To the original poster, yes, if you tell them to tune for 93 octane, they can advance timing slightly more and get you a very slight boost in power. Honestly, though, I wouldn't tune for 93 simply because if you ever get stuck somewhere (or take a trip) with 91, you could get knock/pinging due to the lower octane.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
From: Kansas City, MO
Originally Posted by derek173
so does the tuned ECU lose the ability to change timing to compensate for fuel grade on its own?
So it most likely wouldn't do any damage, I just like to play it safe, don't mind me.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 984
Likes: 0
From: Marietta, Georgia
The states nor the Federal government have any rules concerning the octane numbers posted on the pumps. It is left up to marketers [company that owns the pumps] to select and post a number on the pump.
D 4814 specifies nine gasoline properties (Figure 3-5). These do not include octane number or antiknock index, which are set by gasoline refiners and marketers "based on their perception of the technical and competitive needs in the market."3 Footnotes
http://www.chevron.com/products/prod...esting/pg5.asp
Anyway the differences between 91 and 93 would be about 1 degree advance at most.
True the refiners test their ouput [computers constantly adjust the blend to meet the internal octane numbers at the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM COST].
However leaving the refinery and up the pipeline and into the terminal tanks and in the semitanker and into the station fuel tanks and into your car.........time elapses in which the product degrades.
The BTU of the fuel determines the BMEP and that is what determines the power output.
Never set the timing on a chassis dyno as the acceleration of the rollers is faster than real on highway conditions........always monitor the knock counts in the real world to find an scceptable limit.
Pretty foolish to tune to the ragged edge on dyno then find you are always having the KS system reduce timing by 2,3,4 degrees to avoid Knock.
Unless you are using a dyno chart to sell some modification to the unsuspecting.
D 4814 specifies nine gasoline properties (Figure 3-5). These do not include octane number or antiknock index, which are set by gasoline refiners and marketers "based on their perception of the technical and competitive needs in the market."3 Footnotes
http://www.chevron.com/products/prod...esting/pg5.asp
Anyway the differences between 91 and 93 would be about 1 degree advance at most.
True the refiners test their ouput [computers constantly adjust the blend to meet the internal octane numbers at the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM COST].
However leaving the refinery and up the pipeline and into the terminal tanks and in the semitanker and into the station fuel tanks and into your car.........time elapses in which the product degrades.
The BTU of the fuel determines the BMEP and that is what determines the power output.
Never set the timing on a chassis dyno as the acceleration of the rollers is faster than real on highway conditions........always monitor the knock counts in the real world to find an scceptable limit.
Pretty foolish to tune to the ragged edge on dyno then find you are always having the KS system reduce timing by 2,3,4 degrees to avoid Knock.
Unless you are using a dyno chart to sell some modification to the unsuspecting.
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