Utec Launch Control on the Z?
Utec Launch Control on the Z?
Does anyone know how to set this up or have you used it? I cant find anything searching for it. The turbo im putting on is a little big so I need a way to leave the line on boost. Its either this or a MSD Two Step with a MSD Ignition retard.
Originally Posted by rocks
Does anyone know how to set this up or have you used it? I cant find anything searching for it. The turbo im putting on is a little big so I need a way to leave the line on boost. Its either this or a MSD Two Step with a MSD Ignition retard.
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If you can also incorporate some form of knock control above 5k, too?
^^^ And UTEC has damn good knock detection/reaction across the entire rpm spectrum! Orisis cannot detect knock at all above 5k rpm because the ECU can't either...
Still UTEC and Orisis both have their strong points. Hence - I have both working together.
Just wish TXS didn't abandon us.
Still UTEC and Orisis both have their strong points. Hence - I have both working together.
Just wish TXS didn't abandon us.
Last edited by gothchick; Jan 23, 2009 at 05:34 AM.
No problems, other than i would enjoy the selecive CEL disable and the chance to adjust cam phasing. Otherwise the UTEC has treated me well. I have considered running both, however, selling the UTEC to offset some of the Osiris costs was my plan of action....
Am I mistaken thinking that the Utec uses the factory knock sensor?
If so there is a reason that Nissan cut off the factory sensor at 5,000 rpm. They have plenty of headroom in the DSP, so they stopped it where they were still getting reliable data from it. Over 5,000 rpm the factory knock sensor isn't picking out actual knock and is getting false mechanical noise.
If so there is a reason that Nissan cut off the factory sensor at 5,000 rpm. They have plenty of headroom in the DSP, so they stopped it where they were still getting reliable data from it. Over 5,000 rpm the factory knock sensor isn't picking out actual knock and is getting false mechanical noise.
Am I mistaken thinking that the Utec uses the factory knock sensor?
If so there is a reason that Nissan cut off the factory sensor at 5,000 rpm. They have plenty of headroom in the DSP, so they stopped it where they were still getting reliable data from it. Over 5,000 rpm the factory knock sensor isn't picking out actual knock and is getting false mechanical noise.
If so there is a reason that Nissan cut off the factory sensor at 5,000 rpm. They have plenty of headroom in the DSP, so they stopped it where they were still getting reliable data from it. Over 5,000 rpm the factory knock sensor isn't picking out actual knock and is getting false mechanical noise.
Last edited by athenG; Jan 26, 2009 at 03:11 PM.
^^^ +1
To elaborate on what AthenG was saying - A knock sensor is just a mic. They're pretty much all the same whether it's a factory sensor or one from HKS. It's how that signal from the sensor is interpreted & reacted to that matters. Here's where UTEC really shines over the ECU.
An isolated "one or two count" knock event is generally considered false knock. Ie. Mechanical noise. Anything more than a one or two knock count or a string of knocks, and you'd probably want to pay attention to the tune / knock settings. Of course, nothing beats a knock amp, a pair of head phones, and a human brain trained what to listen for - to really know if it's false knock or not.
The ECU cannot tell the differnce between false knock and real knock... It just pulls 8 to 10 degrees of timing if it hears anything; mechanical noise or not. After 5k RPM it can't hear anything at all and therefore cannot react either.
With UTEC, you can set it to ignore certain knock counts (like one or two counts) and adjust the sensitivity level of the mic. You can also set UTEC to how much timing you want pulled and for how many crank cycles, along with a host of other user-defined settings. These settings can be applied to any part of, or the entire RPM spectrum up to redline. That makes UTEC much better IMHO than the ECU for detecting and reacting to knock.
The ECU is better at other things though. For example, it is adaptive to temps and altitude. UTEC is not. The ECU will adjust itself until it hits certain target parameters, UTEC just does what you tell it to do, even if you're wrong.
To elaborate on what AthenG was saying - A knock sensor is just a mic. They're pretty much all the same whether it's a factory sensor or one from HKS. It's how that signal from the sensor is interpreted & reacted to that matters. Here's where UTEC really shines over the ECU.
An isolated "one or two count" knock event is generally considered false knock. Ie. Mechanical noise. Anything more than a one or two knock count or a string of knocks, and you'd probably want to pay attention to the tune / knock settings. Of course, nothing beats a knock amp, a pair of head phones, and a human brain trained what to listen for - to really know if it's false knock or not.
The ECU cannot tell the differnce between false knock and real knock... It just pulls 8 to 10 degrees of timing if it hears anything; mechanical noise or not. After 5k RPM it can't hear anything at all and therefore cannot react either.
With UTEC, you can set it to ignore certain knock counts (like one or two counts) and adjust the sensitivity level of the mic. You can also set UTEC to how much timing you want pulled and for how many crank cycles, along with a host of other user-defined settings. These settings can be applied to any part of, or the entire RPM spectrum up to redline. That makes UTEC much better IMHO than the ECU for detecting and reacting to knock.
The ECU is better at other things though. For example, it is adaptive to temps and altitude. UTEC is not. The ECU will adjust itself until it hits certain target parameters, UTEC just does what you tell it to do, even if you're wrong.
Last edited by gothchick; Jan 27, 2009 at 09:24 AM.
I forgot about the knock count... lol I have mine set to 3 count before it start pulling timing and I believe I have mine set to pull .5 deg of timing for every point it detects or maybe 1 deg but couldn't remember exactly...lol
That is some pretty conservative knock threshold and I believe you didnt change what came with Utec. I believe mine is set about 75@4000-5000 and 65@5000-7000 and I thought that was already conservative.. lol
Haha. Yeah, I tend to be conservative within the envelope of things that can hurt the car like knock, egt's, excessive heat; and aggressive where I can on performance things like fuel, timing, open/closed loop, boost, etc. But that's just me, everyone has a different philosophy.
UTEC's knock management is one reason I kept it even after I got Orisis. Another reason is that I used Orisis to lock the ECU to one static internal map (non adaptive) and I use UTEC to actually tune with. Orisis runs the tune in Closed Loop, and UTEC takes over in Open Loop (which is most of my tune).
Orisis is a fine product, but I don't use it to tune with because I'm not sure if I like the idea of constantly reflashing the eprom of the ECU everytime I want to tweak something. The ECU/Eprom wasn't intended to be overwritten constantly, and I'm worried about possible corruption / failure. Eproms can be quite delicate and are not meant to be written to like they were ram. If the eprom fails, the only way to fix it is to get a new ECU, and those = about $800 + a long wait.
UTEC on the other hand uses a standard low power consuming CPU (386/20 or 25) depending on when it was manufactured, and non-volitile ram (like a flash drive) that can be overwritten infinitely & safely. If the memory ever does fail, you just go down to Fry's or Radio Shack, pick up another memory module and pop it in. Copy your maps back in and you're fixed = $15 - $20.
I'm still bummed that the knock light accessory port on UTEC apparently doesn't work on the G/Z version of UTEC. The Subbie guys have all the fun. :-)
UTEC's knock management is one reason I kept it even after I got Orisis. Another reason is that I used Orisis to lock the ECU to one static internal map (non adaptive) and I use UTEC to actually tune with. Orisis runs the tune in Closed Loop, and UTEC takes over in Open Loop (which is most of my tune).
Orisis is a fine product, but I don't use it to tune with because I'm not sure if I like the idea of constantly reflashing the eprom of the ECU everytime I want to tweak something. The ECU/Eprom wasn't intended to be overwritten constantly, and I'm worried about possible corruption / failure. Eproms can be quite delicate and are not meant to be written to like they were ram. If the eprom fails, the only way to fix it is to get a new ECU, and those = about $800 + a long wait.
UTEC on the other hand uses a standard low power consuming CPU (386/20 or 25) depending on when it was manufactured, and non-volitile ram (like a flash drive) that can be overwritten infinitely & safely. If the memory ever does fail, you just go down to Fry's or Radio Shack, pick up another memory module and pop it in. Copy your maps back in and you're fixed = $15 - $20.
I'm still bummed that the knock light accessory port on UTEC apparently doesn't work on the G/Z version of UTEC. The Subbie guys have all the fun. :-)
Last edited by gothchick; Jan 27, 2009 at 09:57 AM.
Haha, my car has so much mechanical noise. These are the settings that Sharif set on mine. He said if the dyno shows an increase in power and it knocks, its not real knock. or something to that effect. Either way, I trust his tune/judgment. Although I did put close to stock values in for my NA tune params
^^^ Jeez, with knock settings that low you might as well just turn the knock sensor off. It'll never hear anything anyway. Lol~
What do your logs look like? Probably not showing much knock either way I'd imagine, since shariff turned the knock values so low. I'd be careful with those settings, or you'll be taking him back some repeat business on a rebuild.
Anyway, not meant to be a slam, just a heads up. Glad you're happy with it.
What do your logs look like? Probably not showing much knock either way I'd imagine, since shariff turned the knock values so low. I'd be careful with those settings, or you'll be taking him back some repeat business on a rebuild.
Anyway, not meant to be a slam, just a heads up. Glad you're happy with it.
Last edited by gothchick; Jan 27, 2009 at 10:10 AM.