UTEC & Wideband
12-13-2007 | 12:03 PM
#21
Originally Posted by gothchick
I like UTI as far as the eye candy goes. I think the author has the right idea. But (at least with my copy of UTI) -- It's hard to make accurate adjustments to a tune with UTI logs because UTI lags a lot behind what the UTEC is actually doing at any given time.
When I compare native UTEC logs to the actual tuning map, the values are spot on. Comparing my UTI logs to the actual tuning map and I see sever lag. So (at least in my case) I'm back to using the native UTEC serial dump for road tuning (which is what I believe most pro-tuners do anyway).
To tune in native UTEC mode, you do need a TXS Tuner module.
When I compare native UTEC logs to the actual tuning map, the values are spot on. Comparing my UTI logs to the actual tuning map and I see sever lag. So (at least in my case) I'm back to using the native UTEC serial dump for road tuning (which is what I believe most pro-tuners do anyway).
To tune in native UTEC mode, you do need a TXS Tuner module.
12-13-2007 | 12:06 PM
#22
Originally Posted by Kenk2
After spending LOTS of time with both of those programs, even helping UTI with his coding, In My OWN Opinion, I would ONLY stick with the TXS Tuner.. 
No I am not an advocate for TXS.. Just going off of what I have experienced myself..
No I am not an advocate for TXS.. Just going off of what I have experienced myself..
I would second this. The turbo xs wideband is maybe between $50-$80 more then an aem, but around the same price as a zeitronix with the interface. It will just make life easier when tuning because an extra column at the end will be included on the Utec datalog screen.
Last edited by G35asian; 12-13-2007 at 12:32 PM.
12-13-2007 | 12:07 PM
#23
Originally Posted by Kenk2
EXACTLY.. When I was tuning at the drags for 11.5 psi on race gas with a stock block, UTI was unacceptable. It was waaaay off and not accurate.. IMO, the TXS Wideband is the best and most accurate tuning tool for the UTEC. As far as I am concerned, do it right the first time and you wont have any problems. (Alot of) People are so quick to go to a cheaper alternative and freak out when that cheap alternative turned out to be a negative experience.....
Can you please explain a little bit more on the accuracy part? Was it on the Timing or A/F? I still believe that Timing should be done on the Dyno since you cant really see if advancing your timing will yield power or not. Does UTI A/F reading is inaccurate?
12-13-2007 | 12:13 PM
#24
In my case, UTI wasn't "inaccurate"... It's just lagging like a second or two behind what the UTEC is actually doing. Which makes tuning harder when you're basing the tune off logging events.
This lag is fine for a dashboard, but not for data logging. So I think if you have a Carputer, UTI is the way to go for an attractive dashboard for sure.
This lag is fine for a dashboard, but not for data logging. So I think if you have a Carputer, UTI is the way to go for an attractive dashboard for sure.
Last edited by gothchick; 12-13-2007 at 12:21 PM.
12-13-2007 | 12:27 PM
#25
So the lag is on the Timing part right? I'm more curious to know if the A/F is accurate coz that is the first thing I look at when I see knock. It is really hard to look at the A/F since Utec Fuel Map is base on pulse width and not actual #
Can you explain how do you know it is behind?
Can you explain how do you know it is behind?
12-13-2007 | 12:34 PM
#26
Originally Posted by gothchick
It's just lagging like a second or two behind what the UTEC is actually doing. Which makes tuning harder when you're basing the tune off logging events.
.
.
12-13-2007 | 12:40 PM
#27
Ok, here's a sample of my Timing and portion of my Timing map. I don't see a big lag.
UTI LOGS
UTEC LOGS
My Map
I cant really compare any of the A/F since I don't have a Tuner but my logs from UTI and my timing map isn't that much of a difference.
UTI LOGS
Code:
000.29 3689 +2.0 4.1 78 20 0 19.3 34.5 20.5 +3 000 10.83 000.33 3703 +2.3 4.1 78 20 0 20.1 34.9 20.7 +3 000 11.17 000.39 3723 +2.5 4.1 74 30 0 20.1 35.6 20.9 +3 000 11.33 000.43 3749 +2.9 4.1 74 30 0 18.1 36.4 20.7 +3 000 11.35 000.50 3769 +3.4 4.2 71 30 0 18.2 38.2 19.8 +3 000 11.50 000.53 3786 +3.5 4.2 71 40 0 19.3 39.6 19.5 +3 000 11.48 000.59 3843 +3.9 4.1 75 40 0 11.3 41.1 19.1 +3 000 11.48 000.63 3848 +4.2 4.1 75 40 0 21.2 40.5 20.1 +3 000 11.44 000.68 3831 +4.8 4.1 75 50 0 21.1 44.5 21.2 +3 000 11.30 000.72 3870 +4.8 4.1 76 50 0 21.0 45.4 21.2 +3 000 11.30 000.77 3898 +5.2 4.1 76 50 0 21.2 46.7 20.9 +3 000 11.30 000.81 3896 +5.6 4.3 75 60 0 21.1 48.3 19.9 +3 000 11.32 000.86 3919 +5.9 4.3 75 60 0 21.1 50.0 19.7 +3 000 11.32 000.90 3926 +6.1 4.4 73 60 0 21.2 50.9 18.9 +3 000 11.33 000.95 3935 +6.3 4.4 73 60 0 21.0 51.4 18.5 +3 000 11.33 000.99 3961 +6.7 4.4 73 70 0 21.0 53.8 18.4 +3 000 11.30 001.05 3982 +6.7 4.4 73 70 0 21.0 55.5 18.2 +3 000 11.30 001.09 4005 +7.0 4.5 74 70 0 21.1 56.6 17.9 +3 000 11.30 001.15 4027 +7.0 4.5 74 70 0 21.0 57.6 17.8 +3 000 11.18 001.19 4043 +7.0 4.5 70 70 0 19.6 57.2 17.7 +3 000 11.11 001.23 4054 +6.9 4.5 70 70 0 20.1 57.5 17.7 +3 000 11.11 001.29 4073 +6.9 4.5 69 70 0 20.0 57.7 17.5 +3 000 11.13 001.33 4107 +6.8 4.5 69 70 0 20.1 57.6 17.4 +3 000 11.13 001.39 4130 +6.8 4.5 60 70 0 19.5 57.1 17.5 +3 000 11.26
UTEC LOGS
Code:
3996 3.6 4.11 98 40 0 12.92 20.1 44.4 19.3 3 3.92 4100 4 4.25 97 40 0 13.87 19.1 47.7 18.8 2 3.98 4187 4.3 4.35 98 50 0 14.55 19.2 50.9 17.9 3 4.11 4295 4.9 4.47 99 50 0 15.63 18 56.5 16.7 3 4.09 4438 5.6 4.62 98 60 0 15.92 18 59 15.6 2 4.37 4535 6 4.56 97 60 0 16.36 19 62.2 14.3 2 4.25 4701 6.3 4.72 97 60 0 17.12 17.1 66.3 13.1 2 4.52 4803 6.7 4.78 98 70 0 17.49 16.1 74.8 12.8 2 4.47 4945 6.9 5 98 70 0 17.94 17 73.5 13 2 4.6 5200 6.6 5 97 70 0 18.07 15.8 78.8 13.7 2 4.6 5120 6.8 5 97 70 0 17.92 16 77.3 13.5 2 4.6 5249 6.6 4.98 98 70 0 18.15 14 79.6 13.9 2 4.6 5359 6.1 5 98 70 0 17.98 14.9 81.2 14.1 2 4.6
My Map
Code:
10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 3500 [-100] [21] [21] [21] [19] [22] [20.5] [18.5] [16.5] 3750 [-100] [20] [20] [21] [19] [21.5] [20.5] [18] [16] 4000 [-100] [20] [20] [20] [19] [20.5] [19] [18] [16] 4250 [-100] [19] [17] [18] [18] [17] [17] [16] [15] 4500 [-100] [18] [16] [16.5] [15.5] [15.5] [14.5] [13.5] [12.5] 4750 [-100] [16] [16] [16.5] [15.5] [15.5] [13.5] [12.5] [11.5] 5000 [-100] [18] [18] [17.5] [16.5] [15] [14] [13] [13] 5250 [-100] [19] [19] [18] [17] [16.5] [14.5] [13.5] [13.5] 5500 [-100] [19.4] [19.4] [16.5] [16] [17] [14] [14] [15]
I cant really compare any of the A/F since I don't have a Tuner but my logs from UTI and my timing map isn't that much of a difference.
Last edited by athenG; 12-13-2007 at 01:07 PM.
12-13-2007 | 12:45 PM
#28
Now where is the UTEC log??
I am not talking about timing either..
I am not talking about timing either..
Originally Posted by athenG
Ok, here's a sample of my Timing and portion of my Timing map. I don't see a big lag.
My Map
I cant really compare any of the A/F since I don't have a Tuner but my logs from UTI and my timing map isn't that much of a difference.
Code:
000.29 3689 +2.0 4.1 78 20 0 19.3 34.5 20.5 +3 000 10.83 000.33 3703 +2.3 4.1 78 20 0 20.1 34.9 20.7 +3 000 11.17 000.39 3723 +2.5 4.1 74 30 0 20.1 35.6 20.9 +3 000 11.33 000.43 3749 +2.9 4.1 74 30 0 18.1 36.4 20.7 +3 000 11.35 000.50 3769 +3.4 4.2 71 30 0 18.2 38.2 19.8 +3 000 11.50 000.53 3786 +3.5 4.2 71 40 0 19.3 39.6 19.5 +3 000 11.48 000.59 3843 +3.9 4.1 75 40 0 11.3 41.1 19.1 +3 000 11.48 000.63 3848 +4.2 4.1 75 40 0 21.2 40.5 20.1 +3 000 11.44 000.68 3831 +4.8 4.1 75 50 0 21.1 44.5 21.2 +3 000 11.30 000.72 3870 +4.8 4.1 76 50 0 21.0 45.4 21.2 +3 000 11.30 000.77 3898 +5.2 4.1 76 50 0 21.2 46.7 20.9 +3 000 11.30 000.81 3896 +5.6 4.3 75 60 0 21.1 48.3 19.9 +3 000 11.32 000.86 3919 +5.9 4.3 75 60 0 21.1 50.0 19.7 +3 000 11.32 000.90 3926 +6.1 4.4 73 60 0 21.2 50.9 18.9 +3 000 11.33 000.95 3935 +6.3 4.4 73 60 0 21.0 51.4 18.5 +3 000 11.33 000.99 3961 +6.7 4.4 73 70 0 21.0 53.8 18.4 +3 000 11.30 001.05 3982 +6.7 4.4 73 70 0 21.0 55.5 18.2 +3 000 11.30 001.09 4005 +7.0 4.5 74 70 0 21.1 56.6 17.9 +3 000 11.30 001.15 4027 +7.0 4.5 74 70 0 21.0 57.6 17.8 +3 000 11.18 001.19 4043 +7.0 4.5 70 70 0 19.6 57.2 17.7 +3 000 11.11 001.23 4054 +6.9 4.5 70 70 0 20.1 57.5 17.7 +3 000 11.11 001.29 4073 +6.9 4.5 69 70 0 20.0 57.7 17.5 +3 000 11.13 001.33 4107 +6.8 4.5 69 70 0 20.1 57.6 17.4 +3 000 11.13 001.39 4130 +6.8 4.5 60 70 0 19.5 57.1 17.5 +3 000 11.26
My Map
Code:
10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 3500 [-100] [21] [21] [21] [19] [22] [20.5] [18.5] [16.5] 3750 [-100] [20] [20] [21] [19] [21.5] [20.5] [18] [16] 4000 [-100] [20] [20] [20] [19] [20.5] [19] [18] [16] 4250 [-100] [19] [17] [18] [18] [17] [17] [16] [15] 4500 [-100] [18] [16] [16.5] [15.5] [15.5] [14.5] [13.5] [12.5]
I cant really compare any of the A/F since I don't have a Tuner but my logs from UTI and my timing map isn't that much of a difference.
12-13-2007 | 12:48 PM
#29
Originally Posted by Kenk2
Now where is the UTEC log??
I'm going to look at some of my old UTEC logs and see how far I was.....
12-13-2007 | 12:53 PM
#30
On mine, I noticed both timing and fuel were lagging compared to the values I had at various load points in my map. I don't have my UTI logs with me at the moment, but I'll post them up when I get home...
12-13-2007 | 12:57 PM
#31
Way back when I was working on the software with the Author, I tuned with UTI.. I noticed a big change in my A/F ratios from my previous tune. Discounting, heat and cooling changes, my tune was waaay off with UTI.. SO for the hell of it I logged with the UTEC and low and behold, my A/F was spot on where I wanted it.. I must have tested all day, letting the car rest 15 minutes after each run to kinda cool off.. It wasnt that hot here really but my temps were prolly around 90..
Now I dont have any 'scientific' proof that it does in fact lag but based on the visual evidence, UTI was way off by at least 1 POINT!
Now I dont have any 'scientific' proof that it does in fact lag but based on the visual evidence, UTI was way off by at least 1 POINT!
12-13-2007 | 01:02 PM
#32
I just updated my other post and posted a Utec raw logs. I can see that Utec logs is a Little bit more close by a point or two. Also I have UTI set to smoothen the RPM and that could also be the reason of the difference. Next time I will use UTI without the RPM smoothening and see if there is any difference. Either way my UTI logs aren't that far of.
Ken,
What Uti version was you working on before?
Ken,
What Uti version was you working on before?
12-13-2007 | 01:08 PM
#34
Originally Posted by gothchick
Those log snipits aren't that far off. But on the other hand, we'd need more than just a couple lines of a log to decern any meaningful patterns.
I knew you would say that
I have looked at other logs and they are pretty much the same.... I would say sometimes there are .6 difference but so do my UTEC base logs.
12-13-2007 | 01:14 PM
#35
Hey, what wideband are you using? Innovate?
I ran my TXS Tuner through UTI (both UTEC and Tuner on same com port). Since this is the first version of UTI that accomodates TXS Tuner, I wonder if maybe that might be part of my problem... UTI was originally intended as a "Bridge" application between UTEC and a non-TXS widebands.
I ran my TXS Tuner through UTI (both UTEC and Tuner on same com port). Since this is the first version of UTI that accomodates TXS Tuner, I wonder if maybe that might be part of my problem... UTI was originally intended as a "Bridge" application between UTEC and a non-TXS widebands.
12-13-2007 | 01:22 PM
#36
Originally Posted by gothchick
Hey, what wideband are you using? Innovate?
I ran my TXS Tuner through UTI (both UTEC and Tuner on same com port). Since this is the first version of UTI that accomodates TXS Tuner, I wonder if maybe that might be part of my problem... UTI was originally intended as a "Bridge" application between UTEC and a non-TXS widebands.
I ran my TXS Tuner through UTI (both UTEC and Tuner on same com port). Since this is the first version of UTI that accomodates TXS Tuner, I wonder if maybe that might be part of my problem... UTI was originally intended as a "Bridge" application between UTEC and a non-TXS widebands.
I'm using Innovate LC1 but I can't really compare any A/F since I don't have a tuner. Ether way I'm not concern about the Timing lag since I'm not touching that.
12-16-2007 | 07:26 PM
#37
Originally Posted by gothchick
Hey, what wideband are you using? Innovate?
I ran my TXS Tuner through UTI (both UTEC and Tuner on same com port). Since this is the first version of UTI that accomodates TXS Tuner, I wonder if maybe that might be part of my problem... UTI was originally intended as a "Bridge" application between UTEC and a non-TXS widebands.
I ran my TXS Tuner through UTI (both UTEC and Tuner on same com port). Since this is the first version of UTI that accomodates TXS Tuner, I wonder if maybe that might be part of my problem... UTI was originally intended as a "Bridge" application between UTEC and a non-TXS widebands.
Are you only having delay on the timing? Did you play around with the AFR Offset on the Logger-1 Tap? I think I also have little delay on the AFR reading. Please let me know if playing with the AFR Offset help sync it.
12-17-2007 | 08:03 AM
#38
My UTI logs were lagging both in timing and fuel. I haven't tweeked the AFR offset yet. Maybe that would help?
I think I'll try logging with MPS next just to see if that lags. That way I can figure out if this a UTI problem or something else.
The native UTEC serial-dump is spot on. Maybe TXS was aware of some lagging issues & that's why they never developed a GUI for their own hardware?
I think I'll try logging with MPS next just to see if that lags. That way I can figure out if this a UTI problem or something else.
The native UTEC serial-dump is spot on. Maybe TXS was aware of some lagging issues & that's why they never developed a GUI for their own hardware?
Last edited by gothchick; 12-17-2007 at 08:08 AM.
12-17-2007 | 08:50 AM
#39
Let me know what you find out when adjusting the AFR Offset. It's just to cold here in NY and I have to wait a few days before I can really drive my car. I have my AFR Offset set to default (100 millisecond), I think I'll try 400 and see if that help.
On a side note, I dont see why there is a delay on your Timing since that is coming from Utec, Timing, Load and RPM are all coming from the same source.
On a side note, I dont see why there is a delay on your Timing since that is coming from Utec, Timing, Load and RPM are all coming from the same source.
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