What do you all think of the COBBTUNING Access Port???
03-14-2008, 02:18 PM
#21
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Does anybody know how it compares to Technosquare reflash? In have a couple of mods and I need to reflash the ecu. Intake, HFC, spacer, headers and Nismo exhaust. Looking for the best HP gains for the money.
03-14-2008, 04:23 PM
#22
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
If you run the DP on the scubie, it will affect the a/f ratio. but the reflash should take care of that. Also the unit should be able to reset the target a/f ratios inside the ecu. I "think" that would take care any cel related codes. Now that won't prevent a cel for something like test pipes where the rear o2 sees something very diff than the fronts. And therefore throws a cel out.
It can reset the cel light. But if you don't fix the problem, the cel will kee coming back. Preventing the cel in the 1st place is the key modification
It can reset the cel light. But if you don't fix the problem, the cel will kee coming back. Preventing the cel in the 1st place is the key modification
AP is nice but for ~10hp/$700 is just retarded. I can buy a UTEC for that, tune the car myself and get lots more power. I figured stage 1 would do better but if those numbers are accurate, I think stage 1 is really not worth the cash. Obviously, the quality of gas you get will determine your gains. We get pretty good gas here in MA so I think I can do better with UTEC.
03-14-2008, 10:18 PM
#23
Actually I wasn't the one claiming that. I ASSUMED that because the gentlemen I was responding to, was a scubie enthusiast. I know what throws the code and explained as such.
I don't see why you are jumping on the intial hp gains for the item. The gains are small because of the limited amount of R&D done on the Z maps so far. Whatever gains that have been seen for any NA ecu mod, can be done on this. A direct comparison to the Osiris unit would be a great example. Gains from that reflash product have been great. Gains have been into the 15-20hp range I believe. But it's done with dyno tuning and tinkering with the maps. Any gains you can do with your UTEC can be done with this or more.
On top of this, the reflash doesn't have to intercept, fool or rely on open loop tuning to be able to alter the ign/fuel maps. Once is flashed, the ecu has all new software built in. Open or closed loop. Also Cobb has said, it can alter the cam timing. But I don't think anyone has played with that yet. I believe cam timing changes are responsible for the additional na gains the Osiris units are achieving. Once the street tuner unit comes out for the AcessPort, you will be able to do most everything the UTEC can on a NA basis. FI applications aren't up to par yet because right now you can't go MAP sensor. But if Cobb can rescale for a bigger maf, you won't have to. And you won't have to give up the benefits of closed loop and MAF.
I don't see why you are jumping on the intial hp gains for the item. The gains are small because of the limited amount of R&D done on the Z maps so far. Whatever gains that have been seen for any NA ecu mod, can be done on this. A direct comparison to the Osiris unit would be a great example. Gains from that reflash product have been great. Gains have been into the 15-20hp range I believe. But it's done with dyno tuning and tinkering with the maps. Any gains you can do with your UTEC can be done with this or more.
On top of this, the reflash doesn't have to intercept, fool or rely on open loop tuning to be able to alter the ign/fuel maps. Once is flashed, the ecu has all new software built in. Open or closed loop. Also Cobb has said, it can alter the cam timing. But I don't think anyone has played with that yet. I believe cam timing changes are responsible for the additional na gains the Osiris units are achieving. Once the street tuner unit comes out for the AcessPort, you will be able to do most everything the UTEC can on a NA basis. FI applications aren't up to par yet because right now you can't go MAP sensor. But if Cobb can rescale for a bigger maf, you won't have to. And you won't have to give up the benefits of closed loop and MAF.
Originally Posted by Ziggyrama
DP does NOT effect the AFR on the scubie. You throw a CEL because the CAT is gone and the rear O2 sensor is producing readings that tell the ECU the CAT is not working....thus the CAT inefficiency code. That is basically the function of the rear O2 sensor...to determine the health of the CAT. The front O2 sensor along with the MAF sensor dictate your AFR. The DP doens't come anywhere near those 2. Heck, I even ran without the rear O2 without issues. In open loop, it's just your MAF readings, no O2 sensor feedback. The ECU calculates AFR based on MAF reading and looks up the IDC based on the load to determine how much fuel to dump. I learned quite a bit about scooby ECUs back in my tuning days
AP is nice but for ~10hp/$700 is just retarded. I can buy a UTEC for that, tune the car myself and get lots more power. I figured stage 1 would do better but if those numbers are accurate, I think stage 1 is really not worth the cash. Obviously, the quality of gas you get will determine your gains. We get pretty good gas here in MA so I think I can do better with UTEC.
AP is nice but for ~10hp/$700 is just retarded. I can buy a UTEC for that, tune the car myself and get lots more power. I figured stage 1 would do better but if those numbers are accurate, I think stage 1 is really not worth the cash. Obviously, the quality of gas you get will determine your gains. We get pretty good gas here in MA so I think I can do better with UTEC.
03-15-2008, 05:05 AM
#24
OK, everybody take a deep breath
I wasn't jumpping on anybody. As far as soobie stuff, I was just setting the record straight. No insult was intended.
As far as AP, from what I have seen, the Z platform is fairly well tuned from factory. It's pretty hard to get lots of gains without additional hardware behind it. Basically, unless you can improve the air ingestions efficiency significantly, it's hard to get more power out of the engine. That means bigger plenum, better flowing exhaust and changed cam profile. The peak gains seem small for stage 1 although those numbers could be deceiving. I'd like to see a dyno plot. It's possible that the line may have lot more area under it which will make a big difference in drivibility but won't show up in peak numbers.
As far as maps go, there's a really only a few that make a difference. I assume Cobb already knows the fueling and timing maps. That's basically where you'll get most gains, your octane being a big factor here. The last of the big ones, as you mentioned, is cam timing, and if not changed yet, will also make a difference.
Generally, OTS maps from Cobb will not match what a custom tune can do. OTS maps are always set up with large safety margins, as they should be, and will always leave power on the table. The advantage is that you flash it and you drive it. It's simple and you don't have to be a tuner to take advantage of it. I think stage 2 will yield better results.
As far as OEM vs. UTEC, yes, OEM ECU is very powerful and can do lots of things. The hard part is reverse engineering it and make sense of the maps and, this a big one, understanding how they're used. That means disassembling the code and looking at how the code is using the map values, and when. Let's wait and see what early adopters will report on the Z-AP.
I wasn't jumpping on anybody. As far as soobie stuff, I was just setting the record straight. No insult was intended.
As far as AP, from what I have seen, the Z platform is fairly well tuned from factory. It's pretty hard to get lots of gains without additional hardware behind it. Basically, unless you can improve the air ingestions efficiency significantly, it's hard to get more power out of the engine. That means bigger plenum, better flowing exhaust and changed cam profile. The peak gains seem small for stage 1 although those numbers could be deceiving. I'd like to see a dyno plot. It's possible that the line may have lot more area under it which will make a big difference in drivibility but won't show up in peak numbers.
As far as maps go, there's a really only a few that make a difference. I assume Cobb already knows the fueling and timing maps. That's basically where you'll get most gains, your octane being a big factor here. The last of the big ones, as you mentioned, is cam timing, and if not changed yet, will also make a difference.
Generally, OTS maps from Cobb will not match what a custom tune can do. OTS maps are always set up with large safety margins, as they should be, and will always leave power on the table. The advantage is that you flash it and you drive it. It's simple and you don't have to be a tuner to take advantage of it. I think stage 2 will yield better results.
As far as OEM vs. UTEC, yes, OEM ECU is very powerful and can do lots of things. The hard part is reverse engineering it and make sense of the maps and, this a big one, understanding how they're used. That means disassembling the code and looking at how the code is using the map values, and when. Let's wait and see what early adopters will report on the Z-AP.
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
Actually I wasn't the one claiming that. I ASSUMED that because the gentlemen I was responding to, was a scubie enthusiast. I know what throws the code and explained as such.
I don't see why you are jumping on the intial hp gains for the item. The gains are small because of the limited amount of R&D done on the Z maps so far. Whatever gains that have been seen for any NA ecu mod, can be done on this. A direct comparison to the Osiris unit would be a great example. Gains from that reflash product have been great. Gains have been into the 15-20hp range I believe. But it's done with dyno tuning and tinkering with the maps. Any gains you can do with your UTEC can be done with this or more.
On top of this, the reflash doesn't have to intercept, fool or rely on open loop tuning to be able to alter the ign/fuel maps. Once is flashed, the ecu has all new software built in. Open or closed loop. Also Cobb has said, it can alter the cam timing. But I don't think anyone has played with that yet. I believe cam timing changes are responsible for the additional na gains the Osiris units are achieving. Once the street tuner unit comes out for the AcessPort, you will be able to do most everything the UTEC can on a NA basis. FI applications aren't up to par yet because right now you can't go MAP sensor. But if Cobb can rescale for a bigger maf, you won't have to. And you won't have to give up the benefits of closed loop and MAF.
I don't see why you are jumping on the intial hp gains for the item. The gains are small because of the limited amount of R&D done on the Z maps so far. Whatever gains that have been seen for any NA ecu mod, can be done on this. A direct comparison to the Osiris unit would be a great example. Gains from that reflash product have been great. Gains have been into the 15-20hp range I believe. But it's done with dyno tuning and tinkering with the maps. Any gains you can do with your UTEC can be done with this or more.
On top of this, the reflash doesn't have to intercept, fool or rely on open loop tuning to be able to alter the ign/fuel maps. Once is flashed, the ecu has all new software built in. Open or closed loop. Also Cobb has said, it can alter the cam timing. But I don't think anyone has played with that yet. I believe cam timing changes are responsible for the additional na gains the Osiris units are achieving. Once the street tuner unit comes out for the AcessPort, you will be able to do most everything the UTEC can on a NA basis. FI applications aren't up to par yet because right now you can't go MAP sensor. But if Cobb can rescale for a bigger maf, you won't have to. And you won't have to give up the benefits of closed loop and MAF.
Last edited by Ziggyrama; 03-15-2008 at 05:08 AM.
03-15-2008, 08:02 AM
#25
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ok so the truth is the AP works wonder's for FI cars. .and not so great as of yet for N/A cars or basically the Z. ..Until someone actually buys the AP for the Z or COBB puts up some Number's. .we wont know.
.as far as a quick connect piggyback. .my Unichip works wonder's. .I just have to get it tuned and dyno'd. .just waiting for spring weather!!!
.as far as a quick connect piggyback. .my Unichip works wonder's. .I just have to get it tuned and dyno'd. .just waiting for spring weather!!!
03-15-2008, 08:23 AM
#26
Truth is AP works for FI cars becase:
1) Gains for FI are much easier come by
2) Cobb has had YEARS of tuning to develope maps for the Subarus.
One only has to look at the Osris thread to see what type of gains are possible for this. Their reflashes are very close to the Cobb concept. Same as the TS reflashes. In reality, all these reflashing companies can do whatever your unichip can do, if not more.
1) Gains for FI are much easier come by
2) Cobb has had YEARS of tuning to develope maps for the Subarus.
One only has to look at the Osris thread to see what type of gains are possible for this. Their reflashes are very close to the Cobb concept. Same as the TS reflashes. In reality, all these reflashing companies can do whatever your unichip can do, if not more.
Originally Posted by DraGonAlchemist
ok so the truth is the AP works wonder's for FI cars. .and not so great as of yet for N/A cars or basically the Z. ..Until someone actually buys the AP for the Z or COBB puts up some Number's. .we wont know.
.as far as a quick connect piggyback. .my Unichip works wonder's. .I just have to get it tuned and dyno'd. .just waiting for spring weather!!!
.as far as a quick connect piggyback. .my Unichip works wonder's. .I just have to get it tuned and dyno'd. .just waiting for spring weather!!!
03-15-2008, 08:38 AM
#27
Again. People have got great gains from the Osiris. Whatever gains you get from that your your own, can be done with the Cobb.
OTS: I agree. TS also only offers this and the Osiris if you don't to to one of their facilities to get custom tuing done. Again same that be done with yours. But at this time, I don't think Cobb offers this service. But with the upcoming Street Tuner, you can do it yourself. Just like your UTEC
What type of closed loop tuning can you do with your UTEC? Or is it open loop only? Cobb/Osiris/TS reflashing is all closed and open loop changable.
OTS: I agree. TS also only offers this and the Osiris if you don't to to one of their facilities to get custom tuing done. Again same that be done with yours. But at this time, I don't think Cobb offers this service. But with the upcoming Street Tuner, you can do it yourself. Just like your UTEC
What type of closed loop tuning can you do with your UTEC? Or is it open loop only? Cobb/Osiris/TS reflashing is all closed and open loop changable.
Originally Posted by Ziggyrama
OK, everybody take a deep breath
I wasn't jumpping on anybody. As far as soobie stuff, I was just setting the record straight. No insult was intended.
As far as AP, from what I have seen, the Z platform is fairly well tuned from factory. It's pretty hard to get lots of gains without additional hardware behind it. Basically, unless you can improve the air ingestions efficiency significantly, it's hard to get more power out of the engine. That means bigger plenum, better flowing exhaust and changed cam profile. The peak gains seem small for stage 1 although those numbers could be deceiving. I'd like to see a dyno plot. It's possible that the line may have lot more area under it which will make a big difference in drivibility but won't show up in peak numbers.
As far as maps go, there's a really only a few that make a difference. I assume Cobb already knows the fueling and timing maps. That's basically where you'll get most gains, your octane being a big factor here. The last of the big ones, as you mentioned, is cam timing, and if not changed yet, will also make a difference.
Generally, OTS maps from Cobb will not match what a custom tune can do. OTS maps are always set up with large safety margins, as they should be, and will always leave power on the table. The advantage is that you flash it and you drive it. It's simple and you don't have to be a tuner to take advantage of it. I think stage 2 will yield better results.
As far as OEM vs. UTEC, yes, OEM ECU is very powerful and can do lots of things. The hard part is reverse engineering it and make sense of the maps and, this a big one, understanding how they're used. That means disassembling the code and looking at how the code is using the map values, and when. Let's wait and see what early adopters will report on the Z-AP.
I wasn't jumpping on anybody. As far as soobie stuff, I was just setting the record straight. No insult was intended.
As far as AP, from what I have seen, the Z platform is fairly well tuned from factory. It's pretty hard to get lots of gains without additional hardware behind it. Basically, unless you can improve the air ingestions efficiency significantly, it's hard to get more power out of the engine. That means bigger plenum, better flowing exhaust and changed cam profile. The peak gains seem small for stage 1 although those numbers could be deceiving. I'd like to see a dyno plot. It's possible that the line may have lot more area under it which will make a big difference in drivibility but won't show up in peak numbers.
As far as maps go, there's a really only a few that make a difference. I assume Cobb already knows the fueling and timing maps. That's basically where you'll get most gains, your octane being a big factor here. The last of the big ones, as you mentioned, is cam timing, and if not changed yet, will also make a difference.
Generally, OTS maps from Cobb will not match what a custom tune can do. OTS maps are always set up with large safety margins, as they should be, and will always leave power on the table. The advantage is that you flash it and you drive it. It's simple and you don't have to be a tuner to take advantage of it. I think stage 2 will yield better results.
As far as OEM vs. UTEC, yes, OEM ECU is very powerful and can do lots of things. The hard part is reverse engineering it and make sense of the maps and, this a big one, understanding how they're used. That means disassembling the code and looking at how the code is using the map values, and when. Let's wait and see what early adopters will report on the Z-AP.
03-17-2008, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by wheat
you have to realize too, that its easier to free up more power on turbo cars than the n/a cars, thats why the gains arent as impressive. On my wrx, i ran the stage 3 and it added about 80 hp. If you are running FI on the Z, then it will be able to work wonders im sure.
who runs stock ECU on a supercharged or TT Z though? lol...I wonder if Cobb tuners will have these on hand so they can just tune it up at the shop on the dyno for a couple hundred bucks....would REALLY help me out, my test pipes have me running a little lean so its throwing up a SES light (i think....accessport would be nice right now lol)
Last edited by ke0ki2k; 03-17-2008 at 07:59 AM.
03-17-2008, 08:02 AM
#30
I think you are missing the point. Factory turbo cars often have alot left for power therefore great gains can be had.
Aftermarket fi (ie.. for the Z) are already tuned for maximum power (at each stage if offered). Because in the aftermarket, power ratings sell FI packages. So it's already tuned fairly decent.
One exception might be where some of the FI kits are using the basic split second or fuel pressure risers (can you even use a pressure riser in the G/Z?) to tune. In these cases, there's probably alot left using something better like a Cobb Tuning unit.(or any of the other ecu options)
Aftermarket fi (ie.. for the Z) are already tuned for maximum power (at each stage if offered). Because in the aftermarket, power ratings sell FI packages. So it's already tuned fairly decent.
One exception might be where some of the FI kits are using the basic split second or fuel pressure risers (can you even use a pressure riser in the G/Z?) to tune. In these cases, there's probably alot left using something better like a Cobb Tuning unit.(or any of the other ecu options)
Originally Posted by ke0ki2k
who runs stock ECU on a supercharged or TT Z though? lol...I wonder if Cobb tuners will have these on hand so they can just tune it up at the shop on the dyno for a couple hundred bucks....
03-17-2008, 08:07 AM
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yeah but alot of guys that spend the money to boost their Z/G will go ahead and buy Utec...its really popular and more than well worth the money if youre F/I. far better solution for F/I cars than leaving the ECU stock and reflashing it with the Accessport...I think the accessport will be useful for tuning Naturally Aspirated Z's...if I owned a shop I'd buy one and advertise I had it. Charge people 150-200 bucks to come in and tune your bolton 350Z and you'll make your money back and then some in a short period of time.
03-17-2008, 09:41 AM
#32
Alot of FI packages come with the UTEC. Actually if you want to get technical about it. Using the UTEC DOES leave the ecu stock. You are interecepting/altering the stock ecu.
The Osiris/Cobb/TS reflashing products actually DO modify the ecu to actually make it non-stock.
But exactly why is the UTEC "far better" than something like the CobbTuning? I mean at this point in time, it's better but in theory, the Cobb can actually do more and in a "cleaner" fashion.
The Osiris/Cobb/TS reflashing products actually DO modify the ecu to actually make it non-stock.
But exactly why is the UTEC "far better" than something like the CobbTuning? I mean at this point in time, it's better but in theory, the Cobb can actually do more and in a "cleaner" fashion.
Originally Posted by ke0ki2k
yeah but alot of guys that spend the money to boost their Z/G will go ahead and buy Utec...its really popular and more than well worth the money if youre F/I. far better solution for F/I cars than leaving the ECU stock and reflashing it with the Accessport...I think the accessport will be useful for tuning Naturally Aspirated Z's...if I owned a shop I'd buy one and advertise I had it. Charge people 150-200 bucks to come in and tune your bolton 350Z and you'll make your money back and then some in a short period of time.
03-17-2008, 11:55 AM
#34
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Utec would just allow you to get more into detail with the fuel and timing instead of just plugging in a pre-made map, allows injector scaling for the larger injectors F/I cars use. I could be lying, ask Sharrif, see what he would use on a TT car...
BUT...if a 350Z club were to say..pool money to buy an Accessport tuner...would you be able to use it on multiple cars? I dont really see why one couldnt...
BUT...if a 350Z club were to say..pool money to buy an Accessport tuner...would you be able to use it on multiple cars? I dont really see why one couldnt...
Last edited by ke0ki2k; 03-17-2008 at 11:57 AM.
03-17-2008, 12:02 PM
#35
What Cobb has now doesn't = what the unit is capable of.
With in house dyno tuning or with a Street tuner (as you mention), it could be a very capable tool for fi applications.
Good question about using the Street tuner on more than 1 z/g.
With in house dyno tuning or with a Street tuner (as you mention), it could be a very capable tool for fi applications.
Good question about using the Street tuner on more than 1 z/g.
Originally Posted by ke0ki2k
Utec would just allow you to get more into detail with the fuel and timing instead of just plugging in a pre-made map, allows injector scaling for the larger injectors F/I cars use. I could be lying, ask Sharrif, see what he would use on a TT car...
BUT...if a 350Z club were to say..pool money to buy an Accessport tuner...would you be able to use it on multiple cars? I dont really see why one couldnt...
BUT...if a 350Z club were to say..pool money to buy an Accessport tuner...would you be able to use it on multiple cars? I dont really see why one couldnt...
03-17-2008, 12:10 PM
#37
Originally Posted by ke0ki2k
yeah...10 hp isnt worth 695...but if you could get 5 people to pool together 140 bucks or so....itd be worth it.
03-17-2008, 12:14 PM
#39
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Originally Posted by Jeff92se
Not sure if it works that way. You might have to already be an AccessPort owner to be able to use the Street Tuner. I could be wrong though.
03-17-2008, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ke0ki2k
wait..say what?...lol guess I need to read. thought the Accessport came with stage I and II maps to plug in to your stock ECU.