Oh really? Where do you get this info from? It was already proven headers did nothing on the HR.

 

I can guarantee that he won't pick up 25whp from headers.........if he picked up 2.5whp I would be in utter shock.

 

+1 , even on the DE motors, which have a horrible horrible design, good headers rarely netted much peak whp numbers. most of the gains were mid end.

 

Damn you are stubborn.
Header vs header dyno


https://my350z.com/forum/na-builds/4...m-install.html

Stillen Headers:


Stillen Headers and HFC
[IMG][/IMG]

cam's and headers

http://g35driver.com/forums/engine-d...installed.html

Stillen headers on an HR

http://g35driver.com/forums/intake-e...o-results.html

Alphaworks headers

un sourced


Alphaworks headers:
Average WHP gain: 17.64 whp
Average TORQUE gain: 16.40 lbs/tq
(no picture)
http://g35driver.com/forums/reviews/...dyno-pics.html

Of course, who could forget SSG's headers

https://my350z.com/forum/na-builds/3...-roadster.html

Stop basing what you think on what others say. For every dyno graph, there were 5 threads with people parroting the same thing, even though they NEVER seen any information to prove one side or the other.

I encourage everyone to do their own research, and figure it out for themselves.

 

I'll stick to the first graph since I think A.H's results are little too closely tied to stillen itself, the alpha works results are pumped out by them, and the utter lose of hp below 6k makes the stillen's on DE's garbage. Gabe's results are based on an ichiba vs tomei......the tomei's are one of the very few I would consider buying (including SG (not in production) and crawford). The only problem is it is very probable that the ichiba's caused a lose as compared to stock. Even so, I would imagine the gains vs stock would be very similar, and 5-6whp for ~1400 installed is a steep price to pay.

 

nice numbers...how much did you end up paying?

 

You know A.H. baseline is right with mine with similar mods on that dynojet run he did. I mean almost exactly.

 

KA, the only dynos that we will look at are the HR ones as those are the ones that already come with a equal length manifolds unlike the DE log style. So come on dude, all the runs you are posting are from the DE engine except one which is A.H, and everyone already notices his runs have been botched up anyways. So you failed at proving anything.

This was discussed for the past 2 years that the headers didn't gain much at all on the HR to be worth it. And 3-4 hp is not worth it. That little gain could be the slightly difference in temperature of the engine, etc.

 

You have no proof of this.

 

Who, besides AH, has dynoed headers on their car for this hypothesis to be proven as fact?

While you might not agree that the final figures are within the norm (and without more information, we might not ever know) We do know the gains that can be seen from one mod to another thanks to him.

I haven't noticed anything on his runs which could be deemed irregular. AH had kept to a proper procedure, dynoing in similar conditions, on the same dyno. Until someone can point to data to prove the contrary, A.H. results hold water, hearsay doesn't.

 

And for the last time, having equal length/near equal length headers is a very small portion of the design itself. Manifold length, pipe diameter, exhaust merger, etc all have a VERY large effect on how much power is made, and where.

 

Since the first dyno graph is from my car let me just chime in and just say that it's comparing two aftermarket equal length headers to another one. The better performing ones were longer and had a larger collector. Though this is on a DE engine I would expect that the HR engine would respond differently to different equal length headers as well. For that matter any car would respond differently, but the question comes down to whether it's worth it or not.

 

Like I pointed out in my post above. Without more people providing dynos (on "good headers") it is hard to come to a definite conclusion.

 

First, I completely agree with the statement above. Second, I would be more than happy to go back and edit any derogatory post I have ever made about A.H's car if he can back up his results on a dynojet or the track. I, like many others that are not registered members of the A.H. fanclub, have asked many times for him to just run the car at the track or visit another dyno. He either hasn't, did poorly, or doesn't care (leaning towards the latter). Bottom line is if he isn't trapping 110-112 in that car his numbers are foobar. Thirdly, in terms of the ichiba headers, I have only seen one thread on here or driver ( http://g35driver.com/forums/reviews/...-ons-utec.html ) of dyno results with these headers. Even from this you can't really draw a true comprehension of the gains (or lack there of) associated with this product because there was another product installed at the same time. I don't expect any of this to sink in after seeing your continued responses in the rev-up vs non rev plenum debate........essentially calling Tony at motordyne a hack. If you want to continue this, we can take it to PM's as to not clutter up a thread that neither of us are currently on topic in.

 

I agree. I was laughing when I was reading his REV-UP vs NON-REV UP. I tested those for him when the first MREV Prototypes came out on my G35. I was surprised how much low end TQ I got back when I did the lower Plenum swap.

This is why I don't listen to KA24DE anymore as it's obvious he has no experience with a VQ powerplant.

 

KA24DE,

with fine tune without headers, you can see much gain like that. Also those dyno sheet you posted, it's hard to compare since some added other parts as well or added cams to work better with headers. I don't know if you ever dyno before, even same day dyno, it can be diff little bit with numbers. With my Z, I've seen 4~7whp diff numbers on same day dyno ( After tuned, time diff between an hr~ 1 1/2 ).

Well... i don't think i really gain with my headers but i like my shiny headers Also these headers will help me when i decide to go with cams in future. Anyway my point is just posting a bunch dyno sheets and saying " You guy's are wrong, there are gains" wasn't that cool


Edit: Oh! i wasn't talking about HR motor. Since i haven't seen any dyno sheet or people's review about HR headers vs stock, i can not comment on it.

 

"A person who never made a mistake never tried anything new." -Albert Einstein
Unlike Tony at Motordyne, I do not sell products, or have some underlying secret agenda. I want the answers, and I need something more substantial than opinion to back it up.

That being said, I wasn't the only one who originally came to such an conclusion about the revup vs mrev manifold, as 1cockyZ had the same opinion as I did originally, but has since corrected his position (as have I)
https://my350z.com/forum/7432168-post106.html
https://my350z.com/forum/7432183-post109.html
https://my350z.com/forum/7432226-post111.html

Furthermore, I maintain that the 5/16th spacer will produce gains on a rev up motor, and I have not seen any evidence to support otherwise (despite what Tony claims, I have seen many dynos to counter this statement)

Instead of people like Solo who seem only interested in regurgitating information form others, I like to find out on my own. One of my favorite posters on this Forums is 1cockyZ because he does his own research, and comes to his own conclusions, and isn't just willing to "take my word for it"

Again, I encourage everyone else to do the same.

 

I've been on a dyno many times (with both my current, and previous car) and have attended many dyno days. These claims of 1-7whp variance is dyno are widely overblown.

With that, I don't recall any of these setups I posted being tuned for headers, or adding other parts (besides the one I listed with cams) but read the thread and feel free to correct me.

 

so...let me get this straihgt.

you are saying you've been on dynos, and to dyno days...but you dont think each run produces variances of whp? or am i misreading you?

my old supercharged tiburon, ran 3 times consecutively after being warmed up made 263whp, 255whp, then 265whp, a total of almost 10hp difference. My friend's evo bone stock run twice in succession after being properly warmed up ran 245whp then 250whp on the next run.

 

For FI cars, I have seen such variances, on N/A, less so. "Peak power" gains are less dramatic, and don't widely swing at 10whp "variances"

Of course, without being there, I cannot comment on how they dynoed your car, as I have had the operators continually re run my car until it was 1. At operating temperature, and 2, until the gains are repeatable.