binder

iTrader: (8)

Ok, so i finally finished purchasing all the parts for my car to be finished (at least on this build..lol). My question is this:

Im wanting to put meth injection and nitrous on my vortech setup. I have osiris tuner and will have either GRD or Injected tune my car in the spring when it warms up. Obviously one of the maps will be 93 octane alone. Then i'm going to have a 93+ meth map. I want to add anywhere from 50-100hp of nitrous on top of that for the strip. Would this be something I should get setup and have tuned or can I add it on later without having a full tune? I do'nt have time/money to take it back for a full tune after the nitrous is installed. I'm thinking members on here just use the fuel jet on the nitrous kit to dial the afr to what it was on a previous map.

So if I use my meth map i'll just have that tuned and add the nitrous and adjust the fuel jet on the nitrous so my afr stays the same as it was without nitrous. Should i do that or use the nitrous on the 93 map without the meth?

Ideally i would like to have the nitrous installed before and run a separate map but I dont think i will have the time or money to set it up before the spring. I also don't like the idea of having tons of maps. I would like to just keep one map for the most part and just activate the nitrous when i want it.

Here is the setup of my car if anyone is curious. I'll paraphrase.

arias ed 9:1 pistons
pauter rods
arp L19
ported heads (ferrera valvetrain)
tomei 264 cams
cjm stage 0 rfs
dw 800cc injectors
vortech 2.87 with gtm pulley (14psi at 7k)
headers back to borla true duals
osiris tuner

meth kit will be the AEM meth kit and i'm looking at dynotune EFI nitrous.

thanks for any info. I looked around and all the threads about nitrous and meth are just if it's safe, none really give advice in tuning or what maps to create.

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

I personally wouldnt run a meth map over a street map. sure you can set the AFR, but your timing might be to much. You can always set you timing more conservative, but what exactly is that # and how much power are you leaving on the table.

My suggestion is to adjust your AFR yourself with your new setup. Its simple to do. your timing should be just fine from your last tune. Save your money and then get a touch up tune with timing adjustments when you have your full spray.


Nitrous over a SC will be excellent. You dont need meth on top of that. Nitrous does everything that meth is doing in terms of charge cooling. You'd have to ask a tuner if pump gas octane needed for 600 hp on nitrous is good enough. I dont know at what point the bottle guys go to race gas on spray.

binder

iTrader: (8)

wow, how did i not see this thread response.

so the nitrous will cool the charge plenty but what about the octane of the meth? Wouldn't that put me in the category of not needing race gas? I'm not putting VP in my car since i'll be driving it daily in the summer. I buy VP for my race bikes and that **** is too expensive to dump into a car!

600hp and pump gas alone just sounds a little risky.

One way or another i'll need a full tune. I've changed my setup way too much to have a decent map. I switched to osiris tuner, full built motor with ported heads and cams, return fuel system, 800cc injectors. It's far different than what i had before.

so i should get a nitrous setup and skip the meth? I don't plan on running nitrous very often and it is quite a bit more expensive to keep in my tank for some spirited driving use.

tylerxfire

iTrader: (15)

id just do the nitrous and not the meth and have one map for everyday driving and one map for when ur gonna spray..easy as that...the nitous will cool just as the meth would and i beleive on 93 octane u will be fine spraying a 100 shot to it with a proper tune...i plan to do the same here at some point i have been thinking

UpRev

iTrader: (5)

Water/meth on a stock motor is pointless. With your build, honestly it's not even worth asking the internet. Get it on a dyno and play with it. You'll only know if it is safe and worth doing, at what levels, for what gain... once you're on the dyno and have actual data. Does it sound like a good idea? Sure. Will it actually give you much back for your effort? Who knows.

600whp on a built motor with 93 octane pump gas is pretty safe. Tossing NO2 into the mix just makes things all wonky. Yes it cools the charge but it's an oxidizer and adds heat in the cylinder. Nissans already have a fairly high cylinder temp, so if you add NO2, you'll need to add fuel and a decent amount of octane. You're already in boost, so you're doubling down on the potential issues.

I'd pick one or the other and run with it, not both. Not on a daily driver. Not if you can't afford to rebuild a new block when things go nutty.

tylerxfire

iTrader: (15)

he is saying 600whp with boost and juice...he will be nowhere near that power level with just the vortech, so in order to get to that power level will need some spray which is totally do-able with his build and can be safe with a good tune for it...he wont be running the boost and spray daily driving the car just the boost, but will have the spray and a seperate map for it for the track...

binder

iTrader: (8)

Thanks for the input Uprev (i can't remember if that screenname is jared or rich). I think i was confusing when i said daily driving. This is not my daily driver. I try to drive it as often as possible but I have a truck for a daily. If it's nice weather i drive the car. I have a second engine on a stand so if the motor blows then no big deal. It can sit and wait for another built motor or i could swap in a stock one sitting here.

I haven't made my final decision on tuners but it will be between GRD, Sound performance, or Injected performance. I'm leaning towards Hal because I've heard so many great things about his work. The other shops have also had great reviews for tuning Osiris and are less money. I don't want to skimp on the tuning portion but if i'm going to have it tuned in the spring then turn around and after a few months have it tuned again then i would probably go with the cheaper route first to get a decent base tune on the car.

I'm not sure. I just moved down to STL and things are all in a big mess so this kind of went on the back burner.

binder

iTrader: (8)

ttt

still thinking. Looks like i have a 4 day weekend (finally a break from med school) the first weekend in april. I'm going to try to setup a dynotune on that weekend.

So, i'm back to thinking which i should use: the meth or the nitrous.

Nitrous:
bigger gains
more risk
expensive to fill a bottle (and i don't know any local places either)
more complicated install

Meth:
minimal gains
adds safety to the car via octane
relatively cheap fuel since VP regional office is here
simple install


Is anyone using meth and getting good gains from it? I've been looking around and it seems like 20-30hp due to timing adjustments. So the power difference between the 2 is quite a bit.

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

nitrous all the way. with a proper tune and correct jet selection, its pretty safe.

even a 30 shot out of the hole would make a world of difference

binder

iTrader: (8)

thanks. maybe when i switch over to some high hp turbos i'll switch to meth since i won't need the extra power, just the octane.

whitez33350ztt

iTrader: (4)

sorry dont wanna jack thread.. i also have a question about meth.. i have an 03 with 55k on the motor.. with full bolt on and cams and will b putting on my vortech with 3.33 pulley and im using osiris for my dynotune. i was thinking of going with methanol injection to cool everything down since reliabiltity is my big issue bc im only 19.. and will be driving this basically everyday

binder

iTrader: (8)

pointless for your application truthfully.

3.33 isn't going to do any stressing and you won't be running extreme temps and as long as you don't screw up your tuning you won't need the extra octane.

It would just be a waste of your money at that level. Even at my level i don't think it will be all helpful. I was guessing i could squeeze maybe another 20hp out of the tune with it. My intake temps even with a built engine and vortech at 14psi still isn't high enough to NEED meth so your 6-7psi on the stock motor definitely won't need it. put the cash to good use in another area

whitez33350ztt

iTrader: (4)

even when its 100 degrees out on a hot summer day.. it wasnt like i was going to use it everyday.. just on those hot days when i can just switch to a meth map ..? it never hurts does it... im not looking for any power out of it.. just reliability

tylerxfire

iTrader: (15)

u would be wasting your money, just give it to me and ill do something useful with it...u are gonna be running the weak 3.33 pulley so u in no way need meth injection, all u need is a good solid tune, u really should at least run the 3.12 pulley

binder

iTrader: (8)

It is easily upper 90's and triple digits here and i don't have a heat issue. Do some logs on intake temps and look. Built engine, 14psi (which is a hell of a lot more strain and heat than the 6-7psi pulley) and 100 degrees outside and my temps are just borderline being hot enough for meth injection.