Right, more detail
Built motor (8.5:1 compression) 18psi....our local pump gas is 95 but apparently it's worse than your 93

 

on my SC, i've seen 9psi boost and my timing is 16. pump gas is 91.

 

Like you mentioned, compression ratio is also an important factor.

Timing should increase with increasing RPM. So it's impossible to state a single number for your timing. More useful would be quoting numbers at ~2000 rpm, torque peak, and redline.

I am on a stock DE, 93 octane, 7.3 psi of boost, mine is roughly:

2000 rpm: 9
4000 rpm: 11
6500 rpm: 19

I have run close to 19 degrees at 4000 rpm before on the UTEC (that was based off the TXS base map for the APS TT) without any recorded knock events, but it doesn't seem to be any slower with these numbers and they are a lot more conservative (safer)!

Until I get my knock threshold settings dialed in well (Haltech) and get to a dyno, I am going to leave the numbers where they are. It's almost impossible to tune ignition on the street...on the other hand fuel is easy. I even made a set of knock headphones but it's hard to listen through the noise and drive at the same time.

 

03 Nissan 350Z, Vortech Supercharger, 2.87, 32/28, 7100rpm rev limiter, SS Box, Street Timing Map, 93 Octane

 

11 and 9 are very conservative.....won't to low timing generate more heat?

 

Yes highly retarded timing can caused increased EGT's because the mixture is still burning when the exhaust valve opens - the later the ignition occurs the more burning fuel is allowed to escape out the exhaust valve. But I think it has to be far worse than where I am at before it starts to become an issue. Hard to say though without an EGT gauge. I would rather have slightly elevated EGT's than knock - it's the lesser of two evils. Plus I am at 11.3:1 AFR so there is plenty of fuel there to keep things cool. Peak EGT should occur at stoichiometry (14.6:1 for gas). If you go richer or leaner than than the EGT's will drop.

 

you actually benefit from retarded timing during spool just for the reason mentioned above.

 

what does 12 degrees and 16 degrees = to in uprevs burn time number? 67? 70?

 

I don't think you can convert directly between the two, because engine RPM is a factor. For example, at 6000 rpm it takes half the time for the engine to rotate 12 degrees as it does at 3000 rpm. But the burn time at 6000 rpm might be the same as it is for 3000 rpm.

I could be wrong though.

 

same here, 16* at 18 psi 7K rpm redline. what are you redlining at?

I think this thread is a great idea. lets keep it up.
However, street tuning timing is not a good idea, but seeing these max values with different setups will let people get an idea of good conservative values.
The way I like to tune timing (basic explanation) is after tuning fuel of course, watch the torque curve. add a small amount of timing across the entire curve and see what it did. at any point where the curve stops making more power with timing STOP. If it gets to where the curves are laying over each other, in general, STOP. Watch the knock sensor the entire time also. Detonation should not occur, in general, until a few degrees after you start LOSING power with with more timing. I do this over each column of cells for a complete tune (still in the process as I need more dyno time). In general, timing DECREASES with boost, INCREASES with rpm, and decreases a little over peak torque. As I keep mentioning, these are all generalities and every engine is different. EGT's tell you alot as well, as mentioned before.

now does anyone have any information on cam timing? I have no idea where to start with that, would it be tuned just like ignition timing?

ross

 

As soon as I get a box in my car that can do full control of cam timing I plan on mapping it out fully.

I have my redline set at 7500 till i figure out a solution for the oil pump.

 

What's up with the pump?

I'm all for this thread. Even though all cars aren't the same, it will be interesting to see the trend and how much different the maps really are.
It will be easy to spot if your timing falls out side the norm and then question why.

I'll be following your cam timing map, as I'm in dark with cam timing and need a starting point as well.
How much can be gained here?

 

I dont trust the revup oil pumps past 7500rpm for repeatable high power use. Ive got a solution that I will be testing out that could possible make it safe to rev to 9500rpm granted the rest of you car and motor are setup for it.

How much you get from the cam timing can vary greatly depending on heads, cams, etc.....

 

Uprev does control cam timing... but I left the map stock after talking with some tuners.

Would be curious what others gain or otherwise learn from messing with it.

 

It does but look at the map. It references RPM and fuel schedule. So you have to guess at what the stock ECU fuel schedule is going to be doing when your car could be somewhere totally different when you are boosted. I would rather have something that is capable of controlling cam timing with a rpm vs boost or some other load based parameters. Of course I am also holding out for full DBW control which is coming out soon in the box im holding out for.

 

what turbos do you have that make power >7500 rpms?

 

Ive got a new setup ive been working on which includes the intake manifold, turbos and new exhaust manifolds, but for now i just have upgraded greddy turbos and manifolds that will stay on the car till I get the new oil pump back.

 

That looks like phunks intake.

 

Its one like what he has on his current setup that he is selling. Charles makes some killer stuff.

 

Everything you've said is pretty much correct...BUT you are assuming that everyone has a turbo kit. While timing should increase and rpms go up in a turbo setup ( after you reach full boost anyways )...on a supercharger setup it's different. Timing is pretty flat since torque is pretty flat.