doshoru

iTrader: (3)

There's a reason people demand same-day (or at least conditions) on the same car to establish true gains.

It is well established that Church's dyno reads high. You may be right that it reads 7-8% higher on average, but using a "rule of thumb" has just about zero scientific credibility.

Alberto

iTrader: (14)

Exactly, but this is beyond the OP's comprehension.

Dont be butthurt because the silly insakes you have dont do anything than provide a different sound. The proof is out there in the real, independent world. Go look for it if you dont believe me.

doshoru

iTrader: (3)

Heh, I'm not even trying to get into the "do they add power or not" debate. Just that deducing gains between two different dynos based on what others see is a terribly flawed approach.

Neal516

so your primary concern is the 7 hp difference? even if the dyno was as accurate as a meter stick, this is far from statistically significant for a car that puts down 250.

ronn1

iTrader: (1)

Well..let's sit back for a moment and see what I have here..instead of just bashing me. I'm not claiming any *scientific* stuff ok? What I DO have is some *evidence* that's fairly credible and worthy of the argument that this intake is MORE LIKELY to result in some gains than NOT. We have a dyno that is extensively documented to read CONSISTANTLY high at 7-8%. It's not INSANELY high ( say10% plus) and never has been. I posted another dyno here that SUPPORTS that fact...back to back same day..same car.
If you can accept that fact, then certainly it's LOGICAL to concude I have a baseline with this intake that MOST LIKELY exceeds stock levels. NOTE I SAID...*MOST LIKELY*. I don't think anyone hear can deny that this supports the fact that this intake PROBABLY does NOT decrease performance
and actually enhances it, albeit by a small margin.
Want to turn your back and deny this as *voodoo* stuff..sure go ahead.
Fact is, I have the RESULTS and they are subject to interpretation. I'm simply offering a REASONABLE interpretation based on the extensive history of this particular dyno (the one at Church Automotive).

ronn1

iTrader: (1)

If you could get an intake for FREE that increased HP by 7 would ya put it on?
I would.

djamps

iTrader: (1)

Best analysis out there... read it, and read it again:

http://g35driver.com/forums/intake-e...s-results.html

The most interesting part is the A/F ratio changes that various intakes cause. The 'gains' might not have even been from added flow... rather, turbulence around the MAF making the engine richer/leaner... In otherwords, a proper tune could theoretically eliminate the gains perceived by aftermarket intakes.

And the best part? 'new oem filter' was 1 hp shy of winning:

http://xbcustoms.com/Rob/intakedyno.htm

ronn1

iTrader: (1)

Problem is...I don't see just the intakes alone with NO OTHER MODS added to the mix. What we really need (and don't have) is a simple dyno..same car..same day..same dyno...1) stock..2) intake. That's it.
My car has ONLY the intakes and no other mods. Problem is I have no baseline with stock intake. However, like I said, my baseline pre tune results (292HP) seem to indicate higher than stock #s for this HR. BTW..the tune apparently did NOT take away performance from the intakes (as you suggest), since I got expected gains from the tune (10HP/10TQ).

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

no baseline, no comparison
/thread

djamps

iTrader: (1)

^^ exactly...

ronn1

iTrader: (1)

So much for intakes. Next up is my Invidia Gemini catback install and I fully intend to dyno again with this mod added. We will then have a base and a dyno with this mod added using *same car* same *same dyno* . Stay tuned folks.

SergEK

Ron just have Shawn plot a stock HR graph over yours in similar condition - he has hundreds of VQs in the database

It can at least give folks an idea of gains over stock

This is another reason why I am going to MD Automotive tomorrow to baseline the car at its current level - apples to apples comparison for future mods albeit different temps/days but its the best you can do short of buy all mods and install on dyno all in the same day while testing in between

Some solid dynojet numbers on my rolling stock (19's/285s) will give folks a decent repeatable yardstick with ALOT of tested cars in the automotive press - Im thinking 270ish but who knows maybe it will be hot and it goes 260ish...car runs good regardless so this will be my personal dynojet baseline - might wanna call He said its a slow day tomorrow and its only like $80 or so for a few baseline pulls .

doshoru

iTrader: (3)

Using another car as a baseline is a VERY bad idea. You're making the assumption that every car rolls off the assembly line making the exact same power.

We're talking less than 6-8hp here -- that's within the margin of error/tolerances from the factory. Hell, your car could have made even more power w/o the intakes, and you would never know!

SergEK

So if you have say 10 HRs and they all make within say 3hp of eachother and this car makes say 7-10 on top of the highest stock HR...you really think the other HRs are just sloppy wednesday cars?

There is always an agreed on range for stock power - it would be very easy to plot against similar HRs using the many many many HRs in Shawns database....taken the mean avg power of stock HRs to compare this guys plot would take a few minutes going through the folders and pulling up the logs

These logs would be even better than your typical dynojet logs too since you wouldnt have to worry about wheel/tire choices and aftermarket wheels/alignment issues effecting the numbers - just raw drivetrain losses which all cars would have the same (stock HR)

It would be the same as trying to use your baseline from 3 months ago against your new mods...at some point your gonna have to compare numbers from different days and conditions which is why there are correction factors to account for variances in temp/baro etc...to arrive at an accepted bar in terms of measuring--- standard correction etc...

It will pretty easy to spot a 7-10hp gain if there really is or isnt compared to the avg power the others are putting down....Im sure my graphs againt stock revups would be similar to my green baseline pull on my dynos....I dont think my car was especially powerful compared to other revups.

I think I will stop by and talk to Shawn about it and see if I can get the "avg" power of each motor generation on that dyno....he has tons of files

karletto66

WHY a stock HR needs more air ????
And try to make 10-12 runs on dyno with that intake that "eat" hot air inside, with motor going up with temperature...for sure it goes WORST that original intake...

You can spent your money as you wish for sure but on HR withouts other mods on motor that kind of intake are not a good idea...

On DE motor Nissan has made a mistake on air-flow so a lot of good intake and plenum can make the difference. On HR simply no !

doshoru

iTrader: (3)

SergEK -- Taking a larger sampling size like you're suggesting is always a good idea. But it cannot accurately tell you what the OP's car was making while stock. Can it give you an idea as to whether a mod made power? Maybe, but I CERTAINLY wouldn't bring this to a debate! It's far from conclusive, and it's far from scientific.

ronn1

iTrader: (1)

Forgot to post this here...results on Catback. No arguments this time...same car..same dyno. Only add on is the Gemini catback.

RED is prior dyno with tune.
BLUE is with Gemini

karletto66

Small increment with catback, may be also in dyno tollerance of different runs.
But this is normal. HFC has some more hp gains, only catback only a few ...

ronn1

iTrader: (1)

Look at some areas...you can see a solid difference especially at 4000RPM.
10 WHP/TQ. That's not simply a chance variance. It's modest for sure, but it does make a difference you can feel. Sure, test pipes will add at least another 10HP...not going there..not worth possibly having to deal with noise..smell..rattle.