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VQ35DE vs VQ35HR

Old 02-09-2008, 05:05 PM
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onyxaltezza
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Default VQ35DE vs VQ35HR

Alright guys well Id like to see if we can get enough concrete info in here to make it maybe a sticky. Im no expert but Ive been reading for the past 5 hours straight, on difference between the 2 engines.


The DE's and HR's have very mild differences in tersm of performance. The DE's with bolt ons pull very similar 1/4 mile times with the HR's with boltons.

The HRs have 80% different, stronger internals.

What Im also wondering is, has there been any proof in which engine is more responsive to mods? Coming from an I6 owner, I was surprised to hear that the Z's V6 doesnt benefit very well from intake(s) over stock, and in some cases losing power. My I6 IS300 was not responsive to BPU at all in terms of power, but they did contribute towards better throttle response, high end torque, etc.


Betwen the DE & HR motors, which is more responsive to BPU? Im pretty sure its been established that the HR is more suitable for boost, stock. The HR's 7500 RPM redline is also a plus compared to the DE's, but by how far of a margin? Why did Nissan decide to go with the dual intake setup, for such a minimal gain? Does the HR's head flow any better than the DE's?

-Aaron
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Old 02-09-2008, 05:17 PM
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i had read up that the reason, Nissan went with the dual intake was due to more air flow to the motor and it is more fuel efficient. As for mods the HR puts down more power then De. I read some where on the forum that there is a new Reflush coming out for the HR that will supposedly give huge low to mid range gains. To conclude i think that it is harder to make high gains on the HR from simple boltons, because the car was in production for a long time now and Nissan tried to perfect on the car as much as possible. thus Hr owners will not benefit from intakes, headers.
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Old 02-09-2008, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by toples z
i had read up that the reason, Nissan went with the dual intake was due to more air flow to the motor and it is more fuel efficient. As for mods the HR puts down more power then De. I read some where on the forum that there is a new Reflush coming out for the HR that will supposedly give huge low to mid range gains. To conclude i think that it is harder to make high gains on the HR from simple boltons, because the car was in production for a long time now and Nissan tried to perfect on the car as much as possible. thus Hr owners will not benefit from intakes, headers.

Yep, the reflash was supposed to offer somewhere between 11-18whp and roughly the same torque throughout the entire powerband, which is pretty good. Coupled with BPU parts, and getting it reflashed, it sounds like on of the best bang for the buck mods out there. Also as far as I can remember, it raised redline to 8K rpms on the HR motors.


Hmm when i was at the Nissan dealership I was reading the papers that they have on new cars, and the MPG ratings for the HRs and the DEs seem to be identical actually. I would hope thats the case, but Im not sure. Z's gas milage is crap to begin with, like my IS300. 20mpg is not that great.


To me it seems like Nissan did to the VQ35HR what Honda did with its F22c when it was produced. They maxed it out in factory form so that BPU parts didnt add much performance and in some cases caused loss of torque and power.

-Aaron
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Old 02-09-2008, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by onyxaltezza
The DE's and HR's have very mild differences in tersm of performance. The DE's with bolt ons pull very similar 1/4 mile times with the HR's with boltons.

The HRs have 80% different, stronger internals.
Negative. Even if a DE engine had $4,000 worth of bolt-ons, the HR would still be quicker. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh to the DE owners, but it's the truth.

I've only went to the track 2 times in my life, and I've already managed somehow with my novice driving to grab a 13.7 timeslip...
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Old 02-09-2008, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by gsingh350Z
Negative. Even if a DE engine had $4,000 worth of bolt-ons, the HR would still be quicker. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh to the DE owners, but it's the truth.

I've only went to the track 2 times in my life, and I've already managed somehow with my novice driving to grab a 13.7 timeslip...

A DE with 4k in bolt on's will be running with a HR. I/Plenum/H/TP/Exhaust/clutch/flywheel/good tune will be way under 4k and should pull low 13's all day

I ran a 13.8 with a shitty 2.25 60 ft. in my 03 on my second pass ever on a track with intake, plenum test pipes, and exhaust. If i got more runs that night or ever get back to the track i could easily improve that time.
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Old 02-09-2008, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by sk26dett
A DE with 4k in bolt on's will be running with a HR. I/Plenum/H/TP/Exhaust/clutch/flywheel/good tune will be way under 4k and should pull low 13's all day
Ok. Prove it.

Put $4,000 worth of bolt-on mods to your engine and go beat the best 07 stock time...which is 13.1 now.

$100 says you can't.
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Old 02-09-2008, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by sk26dett
A DE with 4k in bolt on's will be running with a HR. I/Plenum/H/TP/Exhaust/clutch/flywheel/good tune will be way under 4k and should pull low 13's all day

I ran a 13.8 with a shitty 2.25 60 ft. in my 03 on my second pass ever on a track with intake, plenum test pipes, and exhaust. If i got more runs that night or ever get back to the track i could easily improve that time.
Theres no way to do a real apples-to-apples comparisons between the 2, when it comes to modded motors. At least until tuning options come out for the HR, then you can at least do a full bolt on + tune of both motors to see which nets the higher gains, and overall output. The only things we do know is the HR comes with a more free flowing exhaust manifold, and better flowing intake manifold. It's still too soon to say what gains if any the HR really has on a DE that aren't attributed to those 2 things.

TK
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Old 02-09-2008, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by gsingh350Z
Ok. Prove it.

Put $4,000 worth of bolt-on mods to your engine and go beat the best 07 stock time...which is 13.1 now.

$100 says you can't.
https://my350z.com/forum/drag/233840-top-25-1-4-mile-times-for-tt-st-supercharger-nitrous-bolt-ons-stock.html
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Old 02-09-2008, 07:19 PM
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My main question was originally which motor was more mod friendly, but now I guess it appears since Nissan somewhat perfected the HR, it wont see as much power when modded like the DE's. Plenum and plenum spacer mods are now also out of the question for the HR's.

Which brings me to the next question. With true duals rangine from $600-$1400, it seems like a very bad cost to power gained ratio. Even for intakes for some 07 guys, have caused loss of power. For a $1000 exhaust only gaining 10whp(including test pipes), its $100/1or2hp gained.

What Im trying to get at is that it seems HR's...were built for boost =D

-Aaron
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Old 02-09-2008, 07:20 PM
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Here, more specifically:
Originally Posted by aceman
100% stock down to the tire

ALL TIMES HAVE BEEN VERIFIED


1. Veetec --------------------------07 Base 6spd [email protected] 1.971 60ft
2. Peak350 -------------------------07 Enth 6spd [email protected] 1.923 60ft
3. Warmmilk ------------------------07 Enth 6spd [email protected] 2.006 60ft
4. Pat Bateman ---------------------07 Base 6spd [email protected] 2.227 60ft
5. 2007-Z --------------------------07 Tour 6spd [email protected] 2.068 60ft
6. Veetec --------------------------04 Base 6spd [email protected] 1.983 60ft
7. jdifolco ------------------------07 Tour 6spd [email protected] 2.201 60ft
8. DomZ ----------------------------03 Tour Auto [email protected] 1.996 60ft
9. pistols07Z ----------------------07 Base 6spd [email protected] 2.150 60ft
10. BriGuyMax ----------------------03 Tour 6spd [email protected] 2.091 60ft
11. Specv_USMC ---------------------07 Base 6spd [email protected] 2.163 60ft
12. 1.8T ---------------------------03 Base 6spd [email protected] 2.135 60ft
13. VitViper -----------------------07 Tour 6spd [email protected] 2.150 60ft
14. Alberto ------------------------03 Trac 6spd [email protected] 2.052 60ft
15. gsingh350Z ---------------------07 Enth 6spd [email protected] 2.247 60ft
16. AJcool2 ------------------------04 Tour Auto [email protected] 2.127 60ft
17. Gripfordough -------------------03 Trac 6spd [email protected] 99.36mph 2.105 60ft
18. Accordaleer --------------------07 Tour Auto [email protected] x.xxx 60ft
19. Davidv -------------------------04 Enth 6spd [email protected] 2.026 60ft
20. fishbait -----------------------07 _GT_ 6spd [email protected] 2.274 60ft
21. 350zshopper---------------------07 Tour 6spd [email protected] 2.193 60ft
22. dave079-------------------------03 Base 6spd [email protected] 2.130 60ft
23. 350JAR -------------------------04 Base 6spd [email protected] 2.259 60ft
24. Integrity ----------------------03 Tour 6spd [email protected] 2.140 60ft
25. Faithmassive -------------------07 Base 6spd [email protected] 2.228 60ft
26. cp79shark ----------------------07 Nsmo 6spd [email protected]_97.83mph 2.152 60ft
27. carlos067 ----------------------06 Enth 6spd [email protected] 2.118 60ft
28. Mid117 -------------------------06 Base 6spd [email protected] 2.217 60ft
29. Bigo109 ------------------------03 Enth Auto [email protected]_96.97mph_2.077 60ft
30. Jonny Boy ----------------------06 _GT_ 6spd [email protected]_99.50mph_2.285 60ft
31. TyWinter -----------------------03 Tour 6spd [email protected]_98.48mph_2.215 60ft
32. TheKinn ------------------------06 Enth 6spd [email protected]_99.49mph 2.357 60ft[/B]

-Aaron
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Old 02-09-2008, 07:21 PM
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^^
Hey I'm on that list!

But seriously, what do you have up your sleeve? Are you expecting me to say, "I stand corrected Willie..."

Maybe I should re-state what I'm challenging the opposing debaters:

Go find a time-slip of a DE motor with $4,000 worth of bolt-on mods that is running 13.1 or better.
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Old 02-09-2008, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by onyxaltezza
Here, more specifically:



-Aaron
His wager pertained to this section more so.
Originally Posted by ...
Not Stock/Bolt-Ons 03-06 VQ35DE

ALL TIMES HAVE BEEN VERIFIED


1. AudibleMayhem ---Built Block -03 Tour 6spd [email protected] 1.700 60ft Slicks
2. Sfarrah ----------------------03 Enth 6spd [email protected] 1.750 60ft DR's
3. Veetec -----------------------04 Base 6spd [email protected] 1.804 60ft DR's
4. Aceman------------------------03 Base 6spd [email protected] 1.809 60ft Et Str
5. Alberto ----------------------03 Trac 6spd [email protected] 1.895 60ft Slicks
6. DayBlueZ ---------------------04 Tour Auto [email protected] 1.922 60ft Street
7. 3hree5ive0ero ----------------03 Tour 6spd [email protected] 1.896 60ft Slicks
8. Zridder19 --------------------03 Tour 6spd [email protected] 1.893 60ft DR's
9. Trey.Hutcheson ----- SEDAN ---05 G35- 6spd [email protected] 1.895 60ft DR's
10. Davidv ----------------------04 Enth 6spd [email protected] 1.947 60ft Street
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Old 02-09-2008, 07:24 PM
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^^^^^^ See above.
Originally Posted by gsingh350Z
^^
Hey I'm on that list!

But seriously, what do you have up your sleeve? Are you expecting me to say, "I stand corrected Willie..."

Maybe I should re-state what I'm challenging the opposing debaters:

Go find a time-slip of a DE motor with $4,000 worth of bolt-on mods that is running 13.1 or better.
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Old 02-09-2008, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Willie
^^^^^^ See above.
Hmmm. Try reading it again Willie.

Go find a time-slip of a DE motor with $4,000 worth of bolt-on mods that is running 13.1 or better.

Those times you referred to are running a budget way over $4,000.
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Old 02-09-2008, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by gsingh350Z
Hmmm. Try reading it again Willie.

Go find a time-slip of a DE motor with $4,000 worth of bolt-on mods that is running 13.1 or better.

Those times you referred to are running a budget way over $4,000.
The number one spot is the only one that is obviously above that 4k. As for the others they should come in close, if they are high it would come down to axing off the exhaust purchase witch would have little to no effect on their times. I really don't care but 13.1 or lower can be done on a de motor with gears, drag radials, spacer, and a true driver.
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Old 02-09-2008, 07:45 PM
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^^
Ok. Fine. I'm not argue over something like that.

I just wanted to get my point across that the HR is considerably faster than the previous generation DE engines. The car is apparently half a second faster than previous models...I don't know about you, but I consider that a major upgrade for the 07, considering it retails the same as previous models.
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Old 02-09-2008, 07:46 PM
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but you're forgetting the point. HR vs. DE = DE fail.
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Old 02-09-2008, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by gsingh350Z
^^
Hey I'm on that list!

But seriously, what do you have up your sleeve? Are you expecting me to say, "I stand corrected Willie..."

Maybe I should re-state what I'm challenging the opposing debaters:

Go find a time-slip of a DE motor with $4,000 worth of bolt-on mods that is running 13.1 or better.
Look at the list, there are 5 DE Z's ahead of you. That right there proves that DE and HR are nearly identical in performance, with the HR being a tad bit quicker. If you are saying that someone with 4k in mods on a DE cant keep up with a stock HR, then you are just stupid.

And the 13.1 was done by a really good driver. One that can shave .6 seconds off your time with the same car.
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Old 02-09-2008, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by gsingh350Z
^^
Ok. Fine. I'm not argue over something like that.

I just wanted to get my point across that the HR is considerably faster than the previous generation DE engines. The car is apparently half a second faster than previous models...I don't know about you, but I consider that a major upgrade for the 07, considering it retails the same as previous models.
I agree.
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Old 02-09-2008, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Flee0588
Look at the list, there are 5 DE Z's ahead of you. That right there proves that DE and HR are nearly identical in performance, with the HR being a tad bit quicker. If you are saying that someone with 4k in mods on a DE cant keep up with a stock HR, then you are just stupid.

And the 13.1 was done by a really good driver. One that can shave .6 seconds off your time with the same car.
And those DE times were done by novice drivers? Negative ghost rider.

The best stock time for the DE is shown to be 13.6. The best stock time for HR, considering it's only been out for one year vs. the DE which has been out for over 4 years, is 13.1 .
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