how will car handle if remove lots of rear weight and get 315 wide tires?
03-27-2005, 08:14 AM
#1
how will car handle if remove lots of rear weight and get 315 wide tires?
it seems like for removing a lot of weight, a lot of it is going to come off the rear end.
CF hatch
plastic windows
stripped interior
TI exhaust
removed spare tire/tools
those are the things off hand that I can think of that'll take off probably 150lbs in the rear and throw off the balance of the car to be more front oriented.
It seems this will make it harder for the rear tires to hook up, so what if you got 315 tires to fit on the rear? I'm assuming that would counter balance the weight shift a little via more grip? Would having less weight on the rear prevent the car from understeering as much as compared to a stock car with 275 front and 315 rear tires?
CF hatch
plastic windows
stripped interior
TI exhaust
removed spare tire/tools
those are the things off hand that I can think of that'll take off probably 150lbs in the rear and throw off the balance of the car to be more front oriented.
It seems this will make it harder for the rear tires to hook up, so what if you got 315 tires to fit on the rear? I'm assuming that would counter balance the weight shift a little via more grip? Would having less weight on the rear prevent the car from understeering as much as compared to a stock car with 275 front and 315 rear tires?
03-29-2005, 12:04 AM
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Normally I'd say you want 285 or so fronts, but the rear weight reduction factor might definitely change things. Hmm... now that I think of it, reducing rear weight might actually increase understeer. I only say that because of the mid engined cars I know of. They all tend to be balanced, or oversteer. And take a 911: rear engine, scary oversteer. Just tossing some thoughts out there. I guess it comes down to the loss of rear traction due to reduced weight vs the reduction of rear lateral inertia in a corner due to that same weight reduction.
03-29-2005, 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted by sentry65
it seems like for removing a lot of weight, a lot of it is going to come off the rear end.
CF hatch
plastic windows
stripped interior
TI exhaust
removed spare tire/tools
those are the things off hand that I can think of that'll take off probably 150lbs in the rear and throw off the balance of the car to be more front oriented.
It seems this will make it harder for the rear tires to hook up, so what if you got 315 tires to fit on the rear? I'm assuming that would counter balance the weight shift a little via more grip? Would having less weight on the rear prevent the car from understeering as much as compared to a stock car with 275 front and 315 rear tires?
CF hatch
plastic windows
stripped interior
TI exhaust
removed spare tire/tools
those are the things off hand that I can think of that'll take off probably 150lbs in the rear and throw off the balance of the car to be more front oriented.
It seems this will make it harder for the rear tires to hook up, so what if you got 315 tires to fit on the rear? I'm assuming that would counter balance the weight shift a little via more grip? Would having less weight on the rear prevent the car from understeering as much as compared to a stock car with 275 front and 315 rear tires?
03-29-2005, 08:26 AM
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[QUOTE=jreiter]Normally I'd say you want 285 or so fronts, but the rear weight reduction factor might definitely change things. Hmm... now that I think of it, reducing rear weight might actually increase understeer. I only say that because of the mid engined cars I know of. They all tend to be balanced, or oversteer. And take a 911: rear engine, scary oversteer. Just tossing some thoughts out there. I guess it comes down to the loss of rear traction due to reduced weight vs the reduction of rear lateral inertia in a corner due to that same weight reduction.[QUOTE=jreiter]
A few points:
1. Less weight on the rear means the rear will get less traction so the handling balance will shift toward oversteer. (so sentry you are correct here)
2. Increasing the rear tire size should increase rear traction, shifting the balance toward understeer. I don't know of any way to calculate how large of a tire does what other than guess and check.
3. [QUOTE=jreiter]And take a 911: rear engine, scary oversteer.[QUOTE=jreiter] I had to respond to this. 911's have great balance and I find them to be very neutral and even tend to understeer. The whole 911 oversteer myth has to do with abruptly getting out of the throttle mid corner. The weight shift from rear to front will make most cars (especially race cars) go into snap oversteer. This usually happens when an inexperienced driver gets into a corner too fast, goes "oh ****" and takes their foot off the gas as fast as they can. Weight transfers, the rear gets light, looses traction, since the car is turning the car spins, usually goes of the road and hits something. An experienced driver knows if they are in too fast in a corner they cannot just dump the throttle like you could in a front wheel drive street car. The experienced driver either slowly reduces the throttle so the weight transfer doesn't occur so abruptly, or keeps the power down keeping the weight on the rear wheels in hopes to make it through the corner albeit possibly a little sideways. This is how rear engine car designs punish inexperienced drivers, yet rewards experienced drivers.
A few points:
1. Less weight on the rear means the rear will get less traction so the handling balance will shift toward oversteer. (so sentry you are correct here)
2. Increasing the rear tire size should increase rear traction, shifting the balance toward understeer. I don't know of any way to calculate how large of a tire does what other than guess and check.
3. [QUOTE=jreiter]And take a 911: rear engine, scary oversteer.[QUOTE=jreiter] I had to respond to this. 911's have great balance and I find them to be very neutral and even tend to understeer. The whole 911 oversteer myth has to do with abruptly getting out of the throttle mid corner. The weight shift from rear to front will make most cars (especially race cars) go into snap oversteer. This usually happens when an inexperienced driver gets into a corner too fast, goes "oh ****" and takes their foot off the gas as fast as they can. Weight transfers, the rear gets light, looses traction, since the car is turning the car spins, usually goes of the road and hits something. An experienced driver knows if they are in too fast in a corner they cannot just dump the throttle like you could in a front wheel drive street car. The experienced driver either slowly reduces the throttle so the weight transfer doesn't occur so abruptly, or keeps the power down keeping the weight on the rear wheels in hopes to make it through the corner albeit possibly a little sideways. This is how rear engine car designs punish inexperienced drivers, yet rewards experienced drivers.
03-29-2005, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by sentry65
it seems like for removing a lot of weight, a lot of it is going to come off the rear end.
CF hatch
plastic windows
stripped interior
TI exhaust
removed spare tire/tools
those are the things off hand that I can think of that'll take off probably 150lbs in the rear and throw off the balance of the car to be more front oriented.
It seems this will make it harder for the rear tires to hook up, so what if you got 315 tires to fit on the rear? I'm assuming that would counter balance the weight shift a little via more grip? Would having less weight on the rear prevent the car from understeering as much as compared to a stock car with 275 front and 315 rear tires?
CF hatch
plastic windows
stripped interior
TI exhaust
removed spare tire/tools
those are the things off hand that I can think of that'll take off probably 150lbs in the rear and throw off the balance of the car to be more front oriented.
It seems this will make it harder for the rear tires to hook up, so what if you got 315 tires to fit on the rear? I'm assuming that would counter balance the weight shift a little via more grip? Would having less weight on the rear prevent the car from understeering as much as compared to a stock car with 275 front and 315 rear tires?
03-29-2005, 09:34 AM
#7
well i wouldn't do that stuff anytime soon, i'm actually gonna go with 265 and 295 first and see how those work out
i don't want to do massive weight loss and 315's until i have more power - still eying the stroker kit for NA or reving to 8000, but that won't be for a couple years...
i don't want to do massive weight loss and 315's until i have more power - still eying the stroker kit for NA or reving to 8000, but that won't be for a couple years...
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