I was told by a sales person at a local discount tire that Toyo tires are a entry level tire, any truth to this?
I know the Michelin, Pirelli and others are higher end tires, but they also cost a lot more.

 

bump?

 

Michelin uses more expensive materials to create a lighter stronger tire, however you pay dearly for the extra $2-$3 in material cost.
10% better often costs 50% more in most things.

 

The R&D and technology that goes into a tire should be free, right?

 

That sounds about right, Toyos are good for their price. I had the proxes TS-1 and now have the PS2's. The Michelin's live up to their name. They are bad @ss tires.

 

I think that is complete horse crap IMO. Take Kumho for example the spend a ton of money on their R&D and the new tires they are releasing are very comparable to other over priced tires. Maybe in the past that statement was true, but lately smaller tire companies are spending money to create a superior product and selling for less to gain market share. You paying for advertising and golf trips when you buy a michellin not a supperior product.

I would never spend 268.00 on a michellin pilot sport when I could pick up the same size in a Kumho MX, Falken Azenis RT 615 or Hankook rs2 z212 for over 100 less per tire.
Every single one of those tires will outperform the michellin and for much cheaper. What exactly is Michellins R&D consist of? Probably researching how to take your money.

 

I can see where you're coming from, but you're misinformed.

Take the Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 for instance, how many independent tests has this tire been in the last year or so? How many has it come second in?
Keep in mind, we are talking overall performance, not just dry handling. The three tires you listed perform great in dry conditions but have major shortcomings in other areas.

Michelin was the first to use PolyAzide (Kevlar) instead of Rayon fabric in the construction of the tire. In the PS2, they're using multiple rubber compounds in the tread which allows peak performance in different conditions.

Did you think you weren't paying for advertising and golf trips when you bought your Falkens (Drift Sponsorships/Magazine Ads), Kumhos (Same as Falken) or Hankooks, (SCCA sponsorships/advertising, have you watched a baseball game recently?)

 

What about the Fuzion ZRi. Now isnt this a tire that is made by either Bridgestone or BF Goodrich..? Ive heard some good reviews with this tire and it is fairly inexpensive. Is any running this tire and if so, what do you think?

 

It's made by Bridgestone. I'm not familiar with it since we don't carry the Bridgestone line but I have heard pretty good reviews of this tire.

The only thing I don't like about it the tread pattern, the lateral grooves at the shoulder will make alot of noise after wear along with the small tread blocks in the center.

 

So what your saying is the Pilot sports are twice as good as the tires I've named? I have used all 3 of the tires I've listed as well as pilot sports and all but the kumho MXs are better in standing water when compared to the michellins. If we are talking MAX performance tire the Pilot sport isn't even close to being #1. The pilot sport is not an all seaons tire. If you want to compare all season tires to find the best we can do that but the Pilot sport is a Maxc performance tire and should be compared as such. It is overpriced. Whether or not you as a vendor can admit that is another thing all together.


I obviously can't prove where the 100+ dollars more michellin is charging is going, but I guarantee you its not R&D. Sponsoring F1 and LeMans and putting an Ad up at a baseball game are done with entirely different sized budgets I assure you.

 

Where did I say it's twice as good?

Which Pilot Sport are you speaking of, the older directional model?

Is a 350Z overpriced compared to a Altima? They're both cars and the Z is much more expensive.

Sponsoring F1 and LeMans is a form of R&D. Alot of the properties of the race tires make it into street tires. Use the Kumho MX for an example.

 

It cost twice as much shouldn't they be twice as good?

PS2 220 tread rating Max performance tire.

The Z out performs the Altima in every performance category. You cannot say the same of the Michelin Vs the other tires I've named. In fact in this comparison I'd say the Michelin falls short in almost every peerformance category especially when compared to the new Azenis.

 

That is very subjective, I can show you magazine tests where the Michelin outranked many others.

Are you running the new Falken?

I know about the Z, it was just an analogy.

 

Look all I'm saying is I think its complete misinformation to say Michelin is makes a better tire than X and X is an entry level tire. Tires should be compared on a tire to tire basis. Yeah Michelin has more market share than Toyo, Hankook etc... But to say everyone one of their tires is susperior is a complete distortion of reality and sounds like a gimmick to sell the more expensive tire.

 

Actually the Michelin pilot does come in three versions. One is the Summer tire and the second is an all season version which is a sport, and the third is the Michelin Sport Cup which is the racing tire. Hyperlink below for the sport A/S.
http://www.1010tires.com/tiresearch....ory=All+Season

Ive never had this tire but the reputation of Michelin carrys my vote. Tried and true. Im not going to have a $30000 + vehicle riding on a $100 tire.

Chris..what do you have in a higher end tire that is either an ultra performance or all season tire? Thanks for your help..

 

yes I have been running new Azenis on my WRX. They are one of the best street tires I have ever used their better than the RT 215 Azenis in every conceivable way. I personally wouldn't buy Max performance tires for my daily driver, but if I had to I would choose the Azenis rt 615.

 

I agree with that statement 100%, that is why I picked the PS2 out of the line.

 

Thats fine I was just comparing apples to apples you could do the same with all season or snow tires. I chose the Max perfornace PS2 because I have alot of experience with max performance street tires.

 

One of my favorites for the Z is the BFG KDW2. It handles as well in the wet as in the dry, plus it looks cool.

 

So what is the tread life on these as a daily commuter such as my self..? Ive seen what youve done for others on this forum so I just wanted to say thanks for the help.