Balding toyos (T1-S)
Balding toyos (T1-S)
I have 18,000 miles and about 5 track days on this set of Toyo T1-S. When I purchased these tires, I noticed right off the bat that the exterior treads were very shallow compared to the inner tread. It looked like Toyo designed the tire to go bald on the outer treads way before the inner portions of the footprint reach the wear bars. If you have newer Toyos, please confirm if this is indeed an accurate observation. FYI, I keep my air pressure religiously at 40psi(f) and 37psi(r) for both street and track.
My questions are:
1. Do I still need to replace these tires even though the majority of the tire has not reached the wear bars? Despite the appearance of uneven wear on the exterior treads, I think my tires wore quite evenly, granted they didn't have much depth to start with. My alignment is set for mileage vs. performance (very mild toe settings).
2. For the DE regulars, would you do another track day on tires that have worn this much? I'm leaning towards replacing these before a two-day event, but would be interested to see how far these can be worn. It just seems like these tires have just started to feel awesome. I'm almost certain I can put on 5000 more miles on them if this was a set used solely for the street.
My questions are:
1. Do I still need to replace these tires even though the majority of the tire has not reached the wear bars? Despite the appearance of uneven wear on the exterior treads, I think my tires wore quite evenly, granted they didn't have much depth to start with. My alignment is set for mileage vs. performance (very mild toe settings).
2. For the DE regulars, would you do another track day on tires that have worn this much? I'm leaning towards replacing these before a two-day event, but would be interested to see how far these can be worn. It just seems like these tires have just started to feel awesome. I'm almost certain I can put on 5000 more miles on them if this was a set used solely for the street.
Last edited by dnguyent; Dec 9, 2014 at 10:03 AM.
Originally Posted by dnguyent
I have 18,000 miles and about 5 track days on this set of Toyo T1-S. When I purchased these tires, I noticed right off the bat that the exterior treads were very shallow compared to the inner tread. It looked like Toyo designed the tire to go bald on the outer treads way before the inner portions of the footprint reach the wear bars. If you have newer Toyos, please confirm if this is indeed an accurate observation. FYI, I keep my air pressure religiously at 40psi(f) and 37psi(r) for both street and track.
My questions are:
1. Do I still need to replace these tires even though the majority of the tire has not reached the wear bars? Despite the appearance of uneven wear on the exterior treads, I think my tires wore quite evenly, granted they didn't have much depth to start with. My alignment is set for mileage vs. performance (very mild toe settings).
2. For the DE regulars, would you do another track day on tires that have worn this much? I'm leaning towards replacing these before a two-day event, but would be interested to see how far these can be worn. It just seems like these tires have just started to feel awesome. I'm almost certain I can put on 5000 more miles on them if this was a set used solely for the street.
My questions are:
1. Do I still need to replace these tires even though the majority of the tire has not reached the wear bars? Despite the appearance of uneven wear on the exterior treads, I think my tires wore quite evenly, granted they didn't have much depth to start with. My alignment is set for mileage vs. performance (very mild toe settings).
2. For the DE regulars, would you do another track day on tires that have worn this much? I'm leaning towards replacing these before a two-day event, but would be interested to see how far these can be worn. It just seems like these tires have just started to feel awesome. I'm almost certain I can put on 5000 more miles on them if this was a set used solely for the street.
If my tires last 18,000 miles I would be soooooooooooooooooo happy.
I would have been somewhat glad if I was only able to get 12,000 out of the tires but 18,000 WOW.
That's some pretty even wear !
You only need thread when you hit water. I'd say used these tires for your next track event and change them afterward.
18k miles is impressive !
You only need thread when you hit water. I'd say used these tires for your next track event and change them afterward.
18k miles is impressive !
1. Do I still need to replace these tires even though the majority of the tire has not reached the wear bars? Despite the appearance of uneven wear on the exterior treads, I think my tires wore quite evenly, granted they didn't have much depth to start with. My alignment is set for mileage vs. performance (very mild toe settings).
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I'm pretty happy with the wear. I didn't take pictures of the rear, but they have a little more life than the fronts...possibly due to more corner scrubbing from staggered 245/275 fitment.
I'm going to use them for one more track day, and put on new tires on for the subsequent track day. I'm going with the SportConti 2 next because they were on sale at tirerack a few months ago. I don't hear much about these tires on this forum, so I don't know what to expect. But, the tires cost me less than $790 shipped.
If I didn't partake in track days, I really think my outer tread would have way more tread left (and feathtering). The wear on the interior side is mostly due to street/highway driving.
aznmojo, is that a delamination, or just plain wear?
I'm going to use them for one more track day, and put on new tires on for the subsequent track day. I'm going with the SportConti 2 next because they were on sale at tirerack a few months ago. I don't hear much about these tires on this forum, so I don't know what to expect. But, the tires cost me less than $790 shipped.
If I didn't partake in track days, I really think my outer tread would have way more tread left (and feathtering). The wear on the interior side is mostly due to street/highway driving.
aznmojo, is that a delamination, or just plain wear?
Do I still need to replace these tires even though the majority of the tire has not reached the wear bars?
Maybe. Tire performance and remaining tread is not a linear relationship. In other words, a tire with 50 percent of the tread remaining, does not have 50 percent of its potential performance remaining. Your're operating at about 25 percent of a new tire’s capabilities.
I do this test. Find an empty parking lot on a rainy day. Do some figure eights. Does the car feel secure? If tires get crazy in the rain, they most likely will fail in an emergency situation on dry pavement.
Maybe. Tire performance and remaining tread is not a linear relationship. In other words, a tire with 50 percent of the tread remaining, does not have 50 percent of its potential performance remaining. Your're operating at about 25 percent of a new tire’s capabilities.
I do this test. Find an empty parking lot on a rainy day. Do some figure eights. Does the car feel secure? If tires get crazy in the rain, they most likely will fail in an emergency situation on dry pavement.
Originally Posted by davidv
Do I still need to replace these tires even though the majority of the tire has not reached the wear bars?
Maybe. Tire performance and remaining tread is not a linear relationship. In other words, a tire with 50 percent of the tread remaining, does not have 50 percent of its potential performance remaining. Your're operating at about 25 percent of a new tire’s capabilities.
I do this test. Find an empty parking lot on a rainy day. Do some figure eights. Does the car feel secure? If tires get crazy in the rain, they most likely will fail in an emergency situation on dry pavement.
Maybe. Tire performance and remaining tread is not a linear relationship. In other words, a tire with 50 percent of the tread remaining, does not have 50 percent of its potential performance remaining. Your're operating at about 25 percent of a new tire’s capabilities.
I do this test. Find an empty parking lot on a rainy day. Do some figure eights. Does the car feel secure? If tires get crazy in the rain, they most likely will fail in an emergency situation on dry pavement.
Unless the tire compound composition varies with thread depth, the dry performance of a tire will not degrade. In fact, worn tires are more “talkative” because the thinner sole has less squirm and usually give better lap time.
In the same way, traction on humid pavement will stay pretty much the same during all the tire's life. It’s still rubber contacting the pavement.
The grooves in the tires are only there to get water out of the way when you hit a puddle. The rubber still sees only humid pavement then. When these grooves are not big or efficient enough to pump the water out from under the tire, then you get aquaplaning.
Yeah...I think the handling feels great when I don't have much tread left. There's significantly less squish.
My question on whether I should replace the tires is for track purposes. I honestly don't know how much more rubber I got unless I slice through the tire. When I bought these tires, I knew they would go bald at the edges way before the middle since I had about half the depth available to start with.
It would be nice to know if I had 1/4" (or 1/8th or 1/16th) of rubber left below the tread. Baring the availability of that info, I'm left with making overly conservative assumptions.
My question on whether I should replace the tires is for track purposes. I honestly don't know how much more rubber I got unless I slice through the tire. When I bought these tires, I knew they would go bald at the edges way before the middle since I had about half the depth available to start with.
It would be nice to know if I had 1/4" (or 1/8th or 1/16th) of rubber left below the tread. Baring the availability of that info, I'm left with making overly conservative assumptions.
Originally Posted by Kolia
What ?
Unless the tire compound composition varies with thread depth, the dry performance of a tire will not degrade. In fact, worn tires are more “talkative” because the thinner sole has less squirm and usually give better lap time.
In the same way, traction on humid pavement will stay pretty much the same during all the tire's life. It’s still rubber contacting the pavement.
The grooves in the tires are only there to get water out of the way when you hit a puddle. The rubber still sees only humid pavement then. When these grooves are not big or efficient enough to pump the water out from under the tire, then you get aquaplaning.
Unless the tire compound composition varies with thread depth, the dry performance of a tire will not degrade. In fact, worn tires are more “talkative” because the thinner sole has less squirm and usually give better lap time.
In the same way, traction on humid pavement will stay pretty much the same during all the tire's life. It’s still rubber contacting the pavement.
The grooves in the tires are only there to get water out of the way when you hit a puddle. The rubber still sees only humid pavement then. When these grooves are not big or efficient enough to pump the water out from under the tire, then you get aquaplaning.
Unless the tire compound composition varies with thread depth, the dry performance of a tire will not degrade. In fact, worn tires are more “talkative” because the thinner sole has less squirm and usually give better lap time.
Originally Posted by knight_white99
Those look good for one more track day! Mine were worn further than that (essentially bald) and I was still using them for track days.
Man I don't track or race and my front T1-S's are growling. I had my car in for tire feathering TSB a couple months before slapping on new wheels. I barely hit 10k with these tires and noticed the inner tire up front is wearing out badly (one tire worst than the other). The rest still have lots of tread left (like new) :-(
They did growled on mine after 10k miles, but I had about 1/8" toe out in the front for a while. I had the front realigned to ~1/16" toe-in or almost no toe (can't recall exactly) to reduced "feathering". I don't know if it solved anything, but that car still handles ok.
Originally Posted by spf4000
When you mean track, do you mean the drag strip? Cause the tires' edges aren't scuffed up at all.
Originally Posted by dnguyent
No, I meant a road course. The edges get scuffed up pretty good, but eventually some 2500 highway/street miles smooth it all out. My fronts will probably wear out before my rears...an indication that I don't visit the local drag strip at all.
I wear my rears twice as fast than the fronts !
I do tend to use rear wheel steering as soon as I hit the apex...
