PICS of Customers NEW 19" iForged Rims
01-24-2003, 07:00 AM
#44
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RodH, this is exactly the reason there is so much mis-information on the internet: the people that actually know something get hammered every time they open their mouth.
You're entitled to your opinion, but you're directly contradicting yourself when you say:
"You can keep you offsets a secret, BUT I will NEVER buy from you either, so whatever"
"I am just saying, when I started eliminating wheels, the ones that don't list an OFFSET"
"I sure see a LOT OF OFFSET INFO out there from other very reputable wheel companies (in fact, almost every single company I can find offset info for), I don't see any from iForged"
Did I miss something?
By the way, the Coronel is dead, but his "11 herbs-and-spices secret recipe" lives on! If KFC shared their recipe, would they even exist today?
This is HREWheelMaker, signing off. You win. I'm outta here.
You're entitled to your opinion, but you're directly contradicting yourself when you say:
"You can keep you offsets a secret, BUT I will NEVER buy from you either, so whatever"
"I am just saying, when I started eliminating wheels, the ones that don't list an OFFSET"
"I sure see a LOT OF OFFSET INFO out there from other very reputable wheel companies (in fact, almost every single company I can find offset info for), I don't see any from iForged"
Did I miss something?
By the way, the Coronel is dead, but his "11 herbs-and-spices secret recipe" lives on! If KFC shared their recipe, would they even exist today?
This is HREWheelMaker, signing off. You win. I'm outta here.
01-24-2003, 07:09 AM
#45
Originally posted by HREWheelMaker
RodH, this is exactly the reason there is so much mis-information on the internet: the people that actually know something get hammered every time they open their mouth.
You're entitled to your opinion, but you're directly contradicting yourself when you say:
"You can keep you offsets a secret, BUT I will NEVER buy from you either, so whatever"
"I am just saying, when I started eliminating wheels, the ones that don't list an OFFSET"
"I sure see a LOT OF OFFSET INFO out there from other very reputable wheel companies (in fact, almost every single company I can find offset info for), I don't see any from iForged"
Did I miss something?
By the way, the Coronel is dead, but his "11 herbs-and-spices secret recipe" lives on! If KFC shared their recipe, would they even exist today?
This is HREWheelMaker, signing off. You win. I'm outta here.
RodH, this is exactly the reason there is so much mis-information on the internet: the people that actually know something get hammered every time they open their mouth.
You're entitled to your opinion, but you're directly contradicting yourself when you say:
"You can keep you offsets a secret, BUT I will NEVER buy from you either, so whatever"
"I am just saying, when I started eliminating wheels, the ones that don't list an OFFSET"
"I sure see a LOT OF OFFSET INFO out there from other very reputable wheel companies (in fact, almost every single company I can find offset info for), I don't see any from iForged"
Did I miss something?
By the way, the Coronel is dead, but his "11 herbs-and-spices secret recipe" lives on! If KFC shared their recipe, would they even exist today?
This is HREWheelMaker, signing off. You win. I'm outta here.
Wierd that I post a couple nice posts AFTER actual pics are posted and you continue to want to argue. Interesting. I am DONE.
01-24-2003, 01:12 PM
#48
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Originally posted by rodH
lets get too a little bit more direct analogy.
I use to work on very high end bikes and use to be known as one of the better wheel builders around. I had access to the exact specs one needs to use for spoke length, gauge, spoke tension, dish, etc. etc.... to use for a F VS R, different hubs, different rims, different type of riding (Downhill VS Cross country VS Road). This is a VERY VERY complicated process. sometimes if you use very common parts, the info is easy to find (in a book), if NOT, you have to do a BUNCH of calculations.
lets get too a little bit more direct analogy.
I use to work on very high end bikes and use to be known as one of the better wheel builders around. I had access to the exact specs one needs to use for spoke length, gauge, spoke tension, dish, etc. etc.... to use for a F VS R, different hubs, different rims, different type of riding (Downhill VS Cross country VS Road). This is a VERY VERY complicated process. sometimes if you use very common parts, the info is easy to find (in a book), if NOT, you have to do a BUNCH of calculations.
I don't blame HRE one bit for protecting their intellectual property. That's their prerogative. Companies don't flourish in this world by giving away all of their hard earned research for free.
Aslo, why all the slamming of him? He's done nothing but be helpful and courteous to anyone that's ever asked him questions (including annoying PM's from me).
Even though you might disagree with him, which is fine (we're all entitled to our own opinoins), you have to understand that HRE's philosphy on how they do things is more common place than your theory of just giving away all your research data. Their pratices are more the norm; not the exception.
It's fine to disagree with someone, I disagree with people all the time (like I'm disagreeing with you right now). But you don't have to drag it out with useless analogies and be a dick about it. It doesn't do anything but create tension and badger and individual (in this case) that's only provided the members of this forum with helpful information.
01-24-2003, 01:30 PM
#49
Originally posted by jeffrey
I've worked in bicycle shops and hand-built wheels since 1984. Spoke/Rim calulations are easy and free. There's probably 20 free programs on the net alone as well as one's you can get from the manufacturer's like DT. It's not rocket science and far simpler than creating custom high end wheels.
I don't blame HRE one bit for protecting their intellectual property. That's their prerogative. Companies don't flourish in this world by giving away all of their hard earned research for free.
Aslo, why all the slamming of him? He's done nothing but be helpful and courteous to anyone that's ever asked him questions (including annoying PM's from me).
Even though you might disagree with him, which is fine (we're all entitled to our own opinoins), you have to understand that HRE's philosphy on how they do things is more common place than your theory of just giving away all your research data. Their pratices are more the norm; not the exception.
It's fine to disagree with someone, I disagree with people all the time (like I'm disagreeing with you right now). But you don't have to drag it out with useless analogies and be a dick about it. It doesn't do anything but create tension and badger and individual (in this case) that's only provided the members of this forum with helpful information.
I've worked in bicycle shops and hand-built wheels since 1984. Spoke/Rim calulations are easy and free. There's probably 20 free programs on the net alone as well as one's you can get from the manufacturer's like DT. It's not rocket science and far simpler than creating custom high end wheels.
I don't blame HRE one bit for protecting their intellectual property. That's their prerogative. Companies don't flourish in this world by giving away all of their hard earned research for free.
Aslo, why all the slamming of him? He's done nothing but be helpful and courteous to anyone that's ever asked him questions (including annoying PM's from me).
Even though you might disagree with him, which is fine (we're all entitled to our own opinoins), you have to understand that HRE's philosphy on how they do things is more common place than your theory of just giving away all your research data. Their pratices are more the norm; not the exception.
It's fine to disagree with someone, I disagree with people all the time (like I'm disagreeing with you right now). But you don't have to drag it out with useless analogies and be a dick about it. It doesn't do anything but create tension and badger and individual (in this case) that's only provided the members of this forum with helpful information.
I won't comment on the rest of the post, b/c like you said, I don't want to drag it out, I just thought I would clearify the wheel building thing
Last edited by rodH; 01-24-2003 at 01:32 PM.
01-24-2003, 01:34 PM
#50
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Originally posted by rodH
I think you misunderstood me, I was referring to rare hubs that are NOT listed in DTs or Wheelsmiths database, so there is NO reference, simply plugging in the #s based on-hub, wheel, radial/1x/2x/3x/4x/twisted lacing patterns, rear VS Front, Drive side VS Non Drive, DB VS Single butted, alloy nipples VS Brass, SS VS Ti VS carbon (very rare) spokes, and even DT gives slightly different tensions VS wheelsmith spokes. If you have built a wheel using NO DATA based on the hub, I think you know what I am talking about. I haven't done it in a few years, so I imagine it is much easier now b/c of the internet.
I won't comment on the rest of the post, b/c like you said, I don't want to drag it out, I just thought I would clearify the wheel building thing
I think you misunderstood me, I was referring to rare hubs that are NOT listed in DTs or Wheelsmiths database, so there is NO reference, simply plugging in the #s based on-hub, wheel, radial/1x/2x/3x/4x/twisted lacing patterns, rear VS Front, Drive side VS Non Drive, DB VS Single butted, alloy nipples VS Brass, SS VS Ti VS carbon (very rare) spokes, and even DT gives slightly different tensions VS wheelsmith spokes. If you have built a wheel using NO DATA based on the hub, I think you know what I am talking about. I haven't done it in a few years, so I imagine it is much easier now b/c of the internet.
I won't comment on the rest of the post, b/c like you said, I don't want to drag it out, I just thought I would clearify the wheel building thing
02-06-2003, 11:35 PM
#51
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The offsets that the manufactures use are intellectual property. Rod, while it's very nice of you to give out info for free, most people/companies tend to protect that information since it's a CRITICAL part of their business....I know what a biatch it is to take off wheels and take measurements and then try to compensate for brakes, fender clearance with certain tires (not all tires, even if they're listed as the same size, are the same size...)...it's not much fun either...
Not only that, depending on the wheels spoke design/thickness, the offsets you see MAY NOT work with your car's setup. Also, the DISK HEIGHT makes a difference when you talk about brake clearance. Most JDM manufacturers list a Hi/Mid/Low (or something to that effect).
For example, on my GS430, I have the AP Racing brake setup...my HRE setup is a +38 high disk....and I still have a about a 1/4" of clearance...now my buddy has some JDM wheels that are +41 high disk...only 3MM difference. Now 1/4" = 6.35MM...so JUST going by offset, I should have 3.35MM of clearance with his wheels...right? WRONG. His +41's won't even fit my car because of the design/thickness of his spokes.
I don't think it's realistic to ask the wheel companies to list EVERY POSSIBLE combination of offsets and widths and disk settings for EVERY POSSIBLE combination of cars/brakes/fenders/etc.
Companies like Volk, Work, etc. list offsets because they are NOT (for the most part) custom wheel manufacturers...you, as a customer, can't just call them up and ask for a specific lip size, width, finish, offset, etc...especially on 1-piece wheels (they'd have to create new molds all the time). They list offsets because those are all they offer...and what they offer are usually GENERIC offsets that will work with MOST cars. They don't maximize the specs for YOUR car. When you order, you have to tell them what offset (within their list) to send you. iForged/HRE/Fikse/Kinesis work WITH YOU to get the look/requirements you need. (now you CAN sometimes order custom offsets with certain JDM wheel companies but that's another ball of wax)
Do think that Microsoft should post the code to WindowsXP or OfficeXP in the public domain? It's just informaiton, right? Just some text, some lines of code....(hell, in Microsoft's case, maybe some people can help FIX their broken *** programs!)
Hey TX...so THIS is where you've been....
Not only that, depending on the wheels spoke design/thickness, the offsets you see MAY NOT work with your car's setup. Also, the DISK HEIGHT makes a difference when you talk about brake clearance. Most JDM manufacturers list a Hi/Mid/Low (or something to that effect).
For example, on my GS430, I have the AP Racing brake setup...my HRE setup is a +38 high disk....and I still have a about a 1/4" of clearance...now my buddy has some JDM wheels that are +41 high disk...only 3MM difference. Now 1/4" = 6.35MM...so JUST going by offset, I should have 3.35MM of clearance with his wheels...right? WRONG. His +41's won't even fit my car because of the design/thickness of his spokes.
I don't think it's realistic to ask the wheel companies to list EVERY POSSIBLE combination of offsets and widths and disk settings for EVERY POSSIBLE combination of cars/brakes/fenders/etc.
Companies like Volk, Work, etc. list offsets because they are NOT (for the most part) custom wheel manufacturers...you, as a customer, can't just call them up and ask for a specific lip size, width, finish, offset, etc...especially on 1-piece wheels (they'd have to create new molds all the time). They list offsets because those are all they offer...and what they offer are usually GENERIC offsets that will work with MOST cars. They don't maximize the specs for YOUR car. When you order, you have to tell them what offset (within their list) to send you. iForged/HRE/Fikse/Kinesis work WITH YOU to get the look/requirements you need. (now you CAN sometimes order custom offsets with certain JDM wheel companies but that's another ball of wax)
Do think that Microsoft should post the code to WindowsXP or OfficeXP in the public domain? It's just informaiton, right? Just some text, some lines of code....(hell, in Microsoft's case, maybe some people can help FIX their broken *** programs!)
Hey TX...so THIS is where you've been....
Last edited by manaray; 02-06-2003 at 11:49 PM.
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