HRE Wheels
#21
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Originally Posted by Nexx
so is dropping 15 to 20k on a TT and a build absolutely out of the question too?
Instead of investing $6-7K on wheels and tires, I'd put that towards a SC, but that's just me.
I'm not telling anyone what not buy. Buy and mod however you like.
I was shopping for HREs for another car not to long ago and on the used market, they really don't cost that much more than used Volks. 8-series and competition series HREs are still expensive, even used, but the 5 and 4 series wheels are decently priced.
But alas, there is a very small market for used HREs for the Z. Maybe there a few people who agree with me on this whole thing.
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i think HRE's are for people that want that edge on their car. the only problem with these wheels is i have "heard" that they are softer than most 3pc wheel. When you have a 3pc wheel you are going to run into possible dents and bends. but with hre's i have heard they are more prone to get these before most volks and other high end wheels.
i love the way hre's look but most dont have the face and color that volk/work/ssr make. thats why most g/z guys get these brands before HRE.
and the huge price tag
i love the way hre's look but most dont have the face and color that volk/work/ssr make. thats why most g/z guys get these brands before HRE.
and the huge price tag
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Originally Posted by SIN3
i think HRE's are for people that want that edge on their car. the only problem with these wheels is i have "heard" that they are softer than most 3pc wheel. When you have a 3pc wheel you are going to run into possible dents and bends. but with hre's i have heard they are more prone to get these before most volks and other high end wheels.
i love the way hre's look but most dont have the face and color that volk/work/ssr make. thats why most g/z guys get these brands before HRE.
and the huge price tag
i love the way hre's look but most dont have the face and color that volk/work/ssr make. thats why most g/z guys get these brands before HRE.
and the huge price tag
HRE's come in what ever color you want. My wheel polisher told me these where the hardest wheels he ever worked on. Thats not hard as in difficult but hard as in their hardness rating.
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Originally Posted by redlude97
volks and SSR's have limited offsets, with HRE's you can specify pretty much anything you need. That is one reason for the high price, and you also have to pay for the name and the rarity that comes with it. Couple grand more for wheels that 100's of Z's aren't running already is worth it to some
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Look into those as well, hardly anyone is running those either
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Originally Posted by DmanG281
I own a set and yeah I liked the rarity at first. They were very nice quality when I got them but after driving on them for 3 years 2 of them are now leaking and come to find out the aluminum is not sealed real well and now has a few stains in them. Its going to cost me about 2500 to get them rebuilt to new and they will be painted a different color as they are anodized now which after speaking to the techs at HRE was probably a bad decision. I will probably not purchase another set of 3-piece HRE's or any 3-piece wheel for that matter. The original cost for these was not too bad. Its the rebuild that i found out is suggested every 25k miles that kills me. Their customer service is top notch though. I am very happy with any and all conversations I've had with them.
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Originally Posted by redlude97
Why is anodizing a bad option? Just about all the quality rim manufacturers use anodizing. Its the ONLY way to finish a highly polished lip, clearcoat doesn't stick. Work/Volk/Racing Hart/iforged/JP etc. all use anodizing on their multipiece wheels
Life expectancy and the overall brittleness of the finish. Anodizing is an electromechanical plating process wherein the metal is turned into an oxide coating. Over time this coating degrades and will often discolor. Not to mention heaven forbid you get a nick in it. It is also HIGHLY susceptible to staining.
Last edited by DmanG281; 04-01-2008 at 05:53 AM.
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Originally Posted by DmanG281
HRE's come in what ever color you want.
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Originally Posted by DmanG281
Life expectancy and the overall brittleness of the finish. Anodizing is an electromechanical plating process wherein the metal is turned into an oxide coating. Over time this coating degrades and will often discolor. Not to mention heaven forbid you get a nick in it. It is also HIGHLY susceptible to staining.
So what finish do you suggest on high polished lips? The only other option is chroming which has its own inherent disadvantages. So aside from that, anodizing, being the ONLY viable option makes it the best available option as well as the worst possible option simultaneously. Complaining about its disadvantages when you don't provide a viable alternative is pointless isn't it?
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Originally Posted by DmanG281
I think we are not speaking to the same thing. I'm talking about my anodized black faces while you are talking about clear anodized outer rim parts.
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They're like the Rolex of wheels in regards to prestige and name-brand.
Custom and expensive yet quality pieces.
Wouldn't say they're the strongest or lightest wheels out there.
The value on custom HRE's are kind of unpredictable if you're looking to unload your used wheels somewhere down the line. Folks with more expensive cars can care less about depreciation.
Custom and expensive yet quality pieces.
Wouldn't say they're the strongest or lightest wheels out there.
The value on custom HRE's are kind of unpredictable if you're looking to unload your used wheels somewhere down the line. Folks with more expensive cars can care less about depreciation.
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Originally Posted by redlude97
I just sold the SSR's for some new wheels for this very reason, SP1's were getting too common
![](http://students.washington.edu/nguyenh6/jline.JPG)
Look into those as well, hardly anyone is running those either
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Look into those as well, hardly anyone is running those either
HRE is not too far off the price of your average Hi-end 3 piece forged wheel. Similar price range as iForged, Asanti, Maya etc. I'm not contesting thier high quality, but dare I say this....HRE is a "status" wheel. These are wheels you buy to belong to small percentage of owners. What keeps you exclusive is that your "average joe"(myself incuded) can't even dream of affording these wheels.
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About bending and cracking, I too have heard that certain HREs are prone to this. Not that they're not high quality wheels, but 3-piece wheels in general are more prone to cracking and bending.
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Originally Posted by Sylvan Lake V35
I bought my HRE Competition 21s because I was tired of have the same wheels as everyone else(volk GT-S) and I love the look of that particular wheel. Plus they are very light weight rears are 19x12" and weigh 24lbs and the fronts are 19x10.5 at 22lbs.
The competition 21s do look similar to the Volk CE28s
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If anyone is interested, here's a response from the COO of HRE regarding their manufacturing processes compared to others.
And here's the thread so that it makes sense. http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...39#post2436639
And here's the thread so that it makes sense. http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...39#post2436639
This is from the COO of HRE in response to information discussed on this thread:
"Everyone uses Closed Die Forging. Open Die or Hand Forging isn't accurate enough and is sort of the modern hammer and anvil. In terms of forging from a circle blank, I don't know anyone that does that as you would in fact not get much benefit from the forging process. The material has to flow and a lot of energy needs to be imparted into the material in order to change the crystalline structure. If you just pressed on something that was already near the final shape, you wouldn't gain much, but I don't really know of anyone that does this.
In terms of 1-pc, the forgings start from bar stock as well and they are close die forged into a blank and then the barrel part is spun. The is the where the forged/spun term comes from. This method of spinning the rim from a forging is actually called flow-forming. In comparison, on 3-pc rims the barrels are spun from 5 mm thick sheet, not a solid. It is almost the same process and uses the same type of machine w/ a similar end result, but w/ 1pc, you have to go back and do a final machining pass. This does allow the 1pc to be extremely precise though if done properly.
Crimsone90's post about these methods is accurate. His earlier post about HRE was not. He assumed we didn't do it the right way. I really don't know many that don't do it like this, maybe some of the cheaper guys, but not anyone that sources from APP or Japan.
There is another source where people use "rotary" forging. Basically the die isn't completely closed and it is tilted at an angle and the 2 die halves are spun relative to one another so the material is squeezed as it is compressed. Some say this is superior to APP's method in orienting the grain better which is actually incorrect because it puts a twist in the grain relative to the spokes but in all honesty, the grain direction in aluminum is not critical. The strength difference is not that high going transverse to the grain direction, but it is nice to have it aligned properly. This is why aluminum in theory is usually treated as isotropic. Once again, this method is much faster and cheaper so a lot of wheel guys use these types of forgings, but we've found the quality to be inferior so we've never found a supplier capable of meeting our minimum requirements. More marketing than practical benefit from our experience and the savings weren't worth taking a quality hit. This could simply be the quality of the company and not the process so we aren't opposed to the process as much as to the companies that supply this type of forging in the U.S. I think Rays Engineering (Volk) uses this method to good effect, but their quotes to us were actually higher than APP so not worth it as APP is already expensive compared to everyone else.
Basically the focus on manufacturing methodology shouldn't be the main concern. In the U.S. there are so few regulations that it is simply too easy to be in the wheel business. You don't have to properly engineer your wheels or meet any minimum requirements like TUV or JWL. We design our wheels to these specifications and the U.S. equivalent RECOMMENDED by SAE, but just looking at our "competitors" at SEMA makes it horrifyingly clear that most don't know what they're doing.
I told my engineer that with time he'd be able to walk through SEMA and see which wheel companies had proper engineering resources and which didn't just by looking at the product. It takes a little bit of experience, but after a while it is easy to see. Companies like BBS an Volk clearly know what they're doing and we can see it in the subtle proportions of their wheels but there are too many out there that from a distance look like an HRE, but up close it is clear they have no clue what they're doing. It is really scary for us but once again, we're in this for the long-haul so we're going to do it the right way and the hard way.
I could make all of our wheels weigh under 20 lbs, but they wouldn't hold up an M5 for more than a few months or a year or so. This isn't a big deal if you're going racing and you're going to continually inspect your wheels and throw them away after a season and you've run the life out of them, but for road wheels, they need to last the lifetime of the vehicle. A rear 1pc forged Porsche 997 TT wheel weighs 31 lbs. It isn't because the Porsche engineers don't know what they're doing!! It is because they're being safe and conservative.
In the U.S. I, too, am wary of most wheel guys, especially all the new 3pc guys, but not because of the manufacturing methodology, but by the lack of proper engineering and testing. Basically there is a company here in SoCal that will cut, box, and ship a wheel for you based on your design without an engineer ever taking a peek at the design. A lot of people are jumping into the wheel business trying to be the next HRE. We call it draw and cut. I know the designers and they're either artists or machinists. Smart guys, but not properly educated to be doing something that is such a critical item when it comes to the safety of your customers.
This is why HRE now has open house events. We want to show people that we're not like everyone else and we welcome everyone to go visit our competitors to see the difference.
Anyway, I actually agree w/ Crimsone90 on his info... just not on his HRE info."
"Everyone uses Closed Die Forging. Open Die or Hand Forging isn't accurate enough and is sort of the modern hammer and anvil. In terms of forging from a circle blank, I don't know anyone that does that as you would in fact not get much benefit from the forging process. The material has to flow and a lot of energy needs to be imparted into the material in order to change the crystalline structure. If you just pressed on something that was already near the final shape, you wouldn't gain much, but I don't really know of anyone that does this.
In terms of 1-pc, the forgings start from bar stock as well and they are close die forged into a blank and then the barrel part is spun. The is the where the forged/spun term comes from. This method of spinning the rim from a forging is actually called flow-forming. In comparison, on 3-pc rims the barrels are spun from 5 mm thick sheet, not a solid. It is almost the same process and uses the same type of machine w/ a similar end result, but w/ 1pc, you have to go back and do a final machining pass. This does allow the 1pc to be extremely precise though if done properly.
Crimsone90's post about these methods is accurate. His earlier post about HRE was not. He assumed we didn't do it the right way. I really don't know many that don't do it like this, maybe some of the cheaper guys, but not anyone that sources from APP or Japan.
There is another source where people use "rotary" forging. Basically the die isn't completely closed and it is tilted at an angle and the 2 die halves are spun relative to one another so the material is squeezed as it is compressed. Some say this is superior to APP's method in orienting the grain better which is actually incorrect because it puts a twist in the grain relative to the spokes but in all honesty, the grain direction in aluminum is not critical. The strength difference is not that high going transverse to the grain direction, but it is nice to have it aligned properly. This is why aluminum in theory is usually treated as isotropic. Once again, this method is much faster and cheaper so a lot of wheel guys use these types of forgings, but we've found the quality to be inferior so we've never found a supplier capable of meeting our minimum requirements. More marketing than practical benefit from our experience and the savings weren't worth taking a quality hit. This could simply be the quality of the company and not the process so we aren't opposed to the process as much as to the companies that supply this type of forging in the U.S. I think Rays Engineering (Volk) uses this method to good effect, but their quotes to us were actually higher than APP so not worth it as APP is already expensive compared to everyone else.
Basically the focus on manufacturing methodology shouldn't be the main concern. In the U.S. there are so few regulations that it is simply too easy to be in the wheel business. You don't have to properly engineer your wheels or meet any minimum requirements like TUV or JWL. We design our wheels to these specifications and the U.S. equivalent RECOMMENDED by SAE, but just looking at our "competitors" at SEMA makes it horrifyingly clear that most don't know what they're doing.
I told my engineer that with time he'd be able to walk through SEMA and see which wheel companies had proper engineering resources and which didn't just by looking at the product. It takes a little bit of experience, but after a while it is easy to see. Companies like BBS an Volk clearly know what they're doing and we can see it in the subtle proportions of their wheels but there are too many out there that from a distance look like an HRE, but up close it is clear they have no clue what they're doing. It is really scary for us but once again, we're in this for the long-haul so we're going to do it the right way and the hard way.
I could make all of our wheels weigh under 20 lbs, but they wouldn't hold up an M5 for more than a few months or a year or so. This isn't a big deal if you're going racing and you're going to continually inspect your wheels and throw them away after a season and you've run the life out of them, but for road wheels, they need to last the lifetime of the vehicle. A rear 1pc forged Porsche 997 TT wheel weighs 31 lbs. It isn't because the Porsche engineers don't know what they're doing!! It is because they're being safe and conservative.
In the U.S. I, too, am wary of most wheel guys, especially all the new 3pc guys, but not because of the manufacturing methodology, but by the lack of proper engineering and testing. Basically there is a company here in SoCal that will cut, box, and ship a wheel for you based on your design without an engineer ever taking a peek at the design. A lot of people are jumping into the wheel business trying to be the next HRE. We call it draw and cut. I know the designers and they're either artists or machinists. Smart guys, but not properly educated to be doing something that is such a critical item when it comes to the safety of your customers.
This is why HRE now has open house events. We want to show people that we're not like everyone else and we welcome everyone to go visit our competitors to see the difference.
Anyway, I actually agree w/ Crimsone90 on his info... just not on his HRE info."