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Old Oct 14, 2008 | 05:37 AM
  #1  
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Default Runflat Tires?

Are all of the Michelline PS2's runflat? I believe the ones on the new M3 are, but I dont know if all the PS2's are made to be that way or if they are a certian type.

I figure I can take out my spare tire and tools to save some weight if I get the runflats.

Thanks
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Old Oct 14, 2008 | 10:02 AM
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From everything I've heard, runflats are heavier and in most or all cases perform worse than non runflat tires (when inflated, of course). You might be better off just keeping the spare back there, at least it's over the rear tires.
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Old Oct 14, 2008 | 11:27 AM
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i don't believe the PS2s are all run flat. It's most likely an upgrade to the SP2's. If you're trying to save weight to improve your MPG, I'd say don't do it. The small amount of weight won't make any difference, its all about how you drive.
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Old Oct 14, 2008 | 12:34 PM
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I'm not so much trying to save any gas, but more to get better performance out of the car.

I figure taking out the spare, and only filling the tank half way probably saves at least 100 lbs.

Compared to a spare with a full tank. (I'm not sure how much 100 -200 lbs makes up in performance, but I figure the lighter the better)

I have driven the new M3 pretty hard on its PS2's and they performed amazing.

I like the runflats as well because if I do ever get a flat the tire will still be the same with, unlike that puny spare they give us... Plus I dont have to get out of my car and jack it up or anything.

How much are the runflats over the regular PS2's
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Old Oct 14, 2008 | 06:23 PM
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http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Sizes....t+Sport+PS2+ZP
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Old Oct 14, 2008 | 06:28 PM
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Your logic is flawed.

Reductions in unsprung mass (in your case, run flats) are much more significant than comparable reductions in sprung mass (spare tire/tools/etc)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsprung_weight

Ditch the run flat idea if your main goal is performance, and take out your tools. Have your cake and eat it too!

Last edited by guitman32; Oct 14, 2008 at 06:33 PM.
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Old Oct 15, 2008 | 07:39 PM
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^ If this is the case why does BMW use the runflat tires and ditch the spare and tools?
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Old Oct 15, 2008 | 08:00 PM
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Does it say ZP on the tire? The run flats SUCK!!!!! Went to the reg. PS2's on the Viper and was a night and day difference.
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Old Oct 15, 2008 | 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Lento
^ If this is the case why does BMW use the runflat tires and ditch the spare and tools?
Because they are a luxury car company, and put a higher value on the added safety of runflat tires. That is their only advantage, which again, from purely a performance perspective is outweighed by the decrease in performance due to increased rotational mass and unsprung mass.


Allow me to further your understanding. Text below quoted from:
http://www.answers.com/topic/unsprung-weight


The unsprung weight of a wheel controls a trade-off between a wheel's bump-following ability and its vibration isolation. Bumps and surface imperfections in the road cause tire compression--which induces a force on the unsprung weight. In time, the unsprung weight then responds to this force with movement of its own. The amount of movement is inversely proportional to the weight - a lighter wheel which readily moves in response to road bumps will have more grip when tracking over an imperfect road. For this reason, lighter wheels are often sought for high-performance applications. In contrast, a heavier wheel which moves less will not absorb as much vibration; the irregularities of the road surface will transfer to the cabin through the geometry of the suspension and hence ride quality is deteriorated.

Pneumatic or elastic tires help by providing some springing for most of the (otherwise) unsprung mass, but the damping that can be included in the tires is limited by considerations of fuel economy and overheating. The shock absorbers, if any, damp the spring motion also and must be less stiff than would optimally damp the wheel bounce. So the wheels execute some vibrations after each bump before coming to rest. On dirt roads and perhaps on some softly paved roads, these motions form small bumps, known as washboarding or "corduroy" because they resemble smaller versions of the bumps in roads made of logs. These cause sustained wheel bounce in subsequent vehicles, enlarging the bumps.

High unsprung weight also exacerbates wheel control under hard acceleration or braking. If the vehicle does not have adequate wheel location in the vertical plane (such as a rear-wheel drive car with Hotchkiss drive, a live axle supported by simple leaf springs), vertical forces exerted by acceleration or hard braking combined with high unsprung mass can lead to severe wheel hop, compromising traction and steering control.

And below from here:
http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/sprung-c.htm

Cars requiring precise control of wheel movement, where a low percentage of unsprung weight is an advantage, will have faster lap times and higher top speeds, not because unsprung weight reduction improves acceleration or top speed, but because traction is improved.
The unsprung vs. sprung weight percentage also affects ride comfort, since lighter springs are needed to maintain traction and control with lighter unsprung components (alloy wheels, independent rear suspension, alloy calipers, composite springs, in-board brakes, etc.), the chassis is less disturbed by wheel movement and road surface irregularities.

If you want the safety, by all means get them. Just understand the performance implications of your decision.
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Old Oct 16, 2008 | 05:21 AM
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^ that makes sense, Thanks

looks like im just going to stick with the brigestone potenza's, from what I Have been reading the PS2's may be a little better than the Potenza's but the tread burn off fast if you push them.

Someone said the "at least the tire is over the back wheels" I was thinking about this and since I have removed the tire would that throw off the weight distribution a lot. Considering its approx 53/47 now, I think they measure this without gas, but I wonder if the weight of the gas gets the balance back to 50/50. hmmmm.......

Just something to roll around in your head
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