Fatlace article on fake wheels...
10-28-2010, 09:49 AM
#184
Registered User
iTrader: (42)
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: So Cal
Posts: 842
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Knock offs are only illegal if there are patents being copied without permission. If this is the case, then Volk / Rays needs to go after the copy cats. Until then, there will always be copies, there is no escape from this. I think that the debate between the knock offs vs original JDM wheel brands is a joke personally. It's just like buying Kirkland brand soap from Costco instead of DIAL or something similar. Same damn thing. Of course Mackin would be upset, they're losing sales. But are they really? I mean if the person cannot afford $3000+for a set of Volks, and they buy something for less, is that really a lost sale? That sale never would happen any way. As a vendor / retailer, I will sell what my customers demand. If all of a sudden high end JDM wheels drop in demand, I'm not going to carry them. there's no point. I believe that this consumer demand SHOULD push manufacturers of high end wheels to manufacture a cheaper alternative.
A perfect example of this would be for VOLK perhaps to produce a CAST version of their TE37, to bring the price down and to offer it as an alternative. A company MUST adapt to consumer demands instead of trying to cram the same old thing down the consumer's throats.
Now, I am a full fledged fan of the quality that is in the VOLK lineup, you get a VERY good wheel, and quite frankly it is a bit pricy but it's of some of the nicest quality out there in the wheel market overall. I've had volks on my Z in the past and liked them very much, and think that anyone who is in the market for a wheel in that price range will enjoy them the same way as I did. BUT this doesn't mean that there cannot be an alternative out there by the same company for the entry level market. That's why there's base model cars in a vehicle's lineup. Not everyone can afford a Grand Touring or Nismo edition Z. Hence there is a base version which is watered down.
Now, I'm not picking on Volk in particular, simply using that brand as an example here. I feel this consumer demand scale is something for ANY manufacturer to look into and investigate. That's how you adapt and stay strong in the industry you're participating in. You cannot get mad at others who are doing this while you sit idle and don't adapt.
Now I do not fancy the idea of knocking off a particular style of wheel either, I think it's not original and I feel that you should out of respect make at least subtle changes to a design to set yourself apart even if it's ever so slightly from the original version of the part. Many of Rota's wheels have distinct differences that may be subtle, but set them apart from the original manufacturer. They might be a one-piece instead of 3 piece for example, there might be divots in the spokes where the original did not have divots etc.. But the general principle here is that these entry level companies are taking an active role in what the marketplace is demanding.
After all if I was making millions of dollars, I wouldn't care if I spent an extra $1 for dial hand soap, but until then, I'll stick with the knock off store label brand soap for less. And this is the mentality many people have with modding their cars. Instead of kicking and screaming, make a change from within to cater to your clientele. I'm sure the people who can only afford $1500 for wheels would buy volks if volk made a good set in that price range. Right now there isn't much of a choice.
Unfortunately Mackin is an importer / distributor, NOT the manufacturer so they cannot make the change happen on their own. And I feel their frustrations (anyone in this industry can relate) but you have to adapt and go from there... The marketplace usually dictates the supply.
.....(jumps off of his soapbox)...........
A perfect example of this would be for VOLK perhaps to produce a CAST version of their TE37, to bring the price down and to offer it as an alternative. A company MUST adapt to consumer demands instead of trying to cram the same old thing down the consumer's throats.
Now, I am a full fledged fan of the quality that is in the VOLK lineup, you get a VERY good wheel, and quite frankly it is a bit pricy but it's of some of the nicest quality out there in the wheel market overall. I've had volks on my Z in the past and liked them very much, and think that anyone who is in the market for a wheel in that price range will enjoy them the same way as I did. BUT this doesn't mean that there cannot be an alternative out there by the same company for the entry level market. That's why there's base model cars in a vehicle's lineup. Not everyone can afford a Grand Touring or Nismo edition Z. Hence there is a base version which is watered down.
Now, I'm not picking on Volk in particular, simply using that brand as an example here. I feel this consumer demand scale is something for ANY manufacturer to look into and investigate. That's how you adapt and stay strong in the industry you're participating in. You cannot get mad at others who are doing this while you sit idle and don't adapt.
Now I do not fancy the idea of knocking off a particular style of wheel either, I think it's not original and I feel that you should out of respect make at least subtle changes to a design to set yourself apart even if it's ever so slightly from the original version of the part. Many of Rota's wheels have distinct differences that may be subtle, but set them apart from the original manufacturer. They might be a one-piece instead of 3 piece for example, there might be divots in the spokes where the original did not have divots etc.. But the general principle here is that these entry level companies are taking an active role in what the marketplace is demanding.
After all if I was making millions of dollars, I wouldn't care if I spent an extra $1 for dial hand soap, but until then, I'll stick with the knock off store label brand soap for less. And this is the mentality many people have with modding their cars. Instead of kicking and screaming, make a change from within to cater to your clientele. I'm sure the people who can only afford $1500 for wheels would buy volks if volk made a good set in that price range. Right now there isn't much of a choice.
Unfortunately Mackin is an importer / distributor, NOT the manufacturer so they cannot make the change happen on their own. And I feel their frustrations (anyone in this industry can relate) but you have to adapt and go from there... The marketplace usually dictates the supply.
.....(jumps off of his soapbox)...........
10-28-2010, 10:58 AM
#185
I understand the whole budget modding concept, so some people mod their cars and go with knock offs instead of the real deal. But, the contradiction that messes my head up is that why mod your car if you are not going to gain performance or bring something positive out of the money you spent. IS IT ALL REALLY ABOUT THE LOOKS! Basically, you are adding wheels that are heavier(sometimes even heavier than stocks), the company that makes them does not respect the tuner concept/culture and takes advantage of it(companies that work hard to bring us the best products) on their own convenience. They sell a product that you don't know under what standards it was manufacture, and don't forget by the looks of the wheel's finish you can see they invest the less money on production so they can rip you off!
At the end, some of the posers stand up creating arguments. If you got a a knock off, ok be happy with it. It's your money, you have brains to think and analyze the product you got and the reasons why you got it. But MANN it is ridiculously when they have to act like their wheels compare to the real deal and weird statements like that, or try to pretend they got the real deal.
IMO brands like enkei, volk, advan, and many others are not overpriced for the product they offer. There are other wheels out there on the market that are way more expensive.
Also, some should consider what is behind all these "real deal brands". there is a lot of engineering and testing before we get to have access to their products; all the process is not cheap!
Screw the "you are buying brand" statements!!! if you say that then compare the cost of production of your knock off vs a volk for example. The cost of the knock is cheap(being made in a country where they pay cheap labor rates and who knoes what else).
(5 secs search)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Armx02_R7Y0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq1Yy...eature=related
At the end, some of the posers stand up creating arguments. If you got a a knock off, ok be happy with it. It's your money, you have brains to think and analyze the product you got and the reasons why you got it. But MANN it is ridiculously when they have to act like their wheels compare to the real deal and weird statements like that, or try to pretend they got the real deal.
IMO brands like enkei, volk, advan, and many others are not overpriced for the product they offer. There are other wheels out there on the market that are way more expensive.
Also, some should consider what is behind all these "real deal brands". there is a lot of engineering and testing before we get to have access to their products; all the process is not cheap!
Screw the "you are buying brand" statements!!! if you say that then compare the cost of production of your knock off vs a volk for example. The cost of the knock is cheap(being made in a country where they pay cheap labor rates and who knoes what else).
(5 secs search)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Armx02_R7Y0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq1Yy...eature=related
10-28-2010, 12:09 PM
#186
Registered User
iTrader: (42)
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: So Cal
Posts: 842
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But MANN it is ridiculously when they have to act like their wheels compare to the real deal and weird statements like that, or try to pretend they got the real deal.
IMO brands like enkei, volk, advan, and many others are not overpriced for the product they offer. There are other wheels out there on the market that are way more expensive.
Also, some should consider what is behind all these "real deal brands". there is a lot of engineering and testing before we get to have access to their products; all the process is not cheap!
IMO brands like enkei, volk, advan, and many others are not overpriced for the product they offer. There are other wheels out there on the market that are way more expensive.
Also, some should consider what is behind all these "real deal brands". there is a lot of engineering and testing before we get to have access to their products; all the process is not cheap!
I fully agree here, it's not cool to buy knock offs or entry level wheels and prance around like they're the top of the line stuff. That bugs me too. But it's not cool to diss wheels like Rota etc either just because you can afford volks or the real deal etc... To each his own, and the quicker mod car guys embrace this sentiment the better we'll all be.
I also agree that all the R and D is not cheap, However most of the reason for the pricing being high is somewhat bogus to me. The main reason used is exchange rate. This makes sense considering out current economic state. BUT years ago even when the dollar was strong, the prices were still inflated, and price hikes occurred nearly 1.5 times a year! It's been this way ever since. However the pricing continues to go up even after the exchanges rates leveled off. This is simple price gouging because they're losing sales here to cheaper brands, they need to keep their margins... This isn't fair to the overall consumer base, so in a very small part some companies drive customers and sales away on their own. Funny thing is that the price of making the wheels in the home country haven't really gone up much if at all. In any case there's a lot to the pricing arguement, I digress.....
10-30-2010, 10:36 PM
#190
I understand the whole budget modding concept, so some people mod their cars and go with knock offs instead of the real deal. But, the contradiction that messes my head up is that why mod your car if you are not going to gain performance or bring something positive out of the money you spent. IS IT ALL REALLY ABOUT THE LOOKS! Basically, you are adding wheels that are heavier(sometimes even heavier than stocks), the company that makes them does not respect the tuner concept/culture and takes advantage of it(companies that work hard to bring us the best products) on their own convenience. They sell a product that you don't know under what standards it was manufacture, and don't forget by the looks of the wheel's finish you can see they invest the less money on production so they can rip you off!
At the end, some of the posers stand up creating arguments. If you got a a knock off, ok be happy with it. It's your money, you have brains to think and analyze the product you got and the reasons why you got it. But MANN it is ridiculously when they have to act like their wheels compare to the real deal and weird statements like that, or try to pretend they got the real deal.
IMO brands like enkei, volk, advan, and many others are not overpriced for the product they offer. There are other wheels out there on the market that are way more expensive.
Also, some should consider what is behind all these "real deal brands". there is a lot of engineering and testing before we get to have access to their products; all the process is not cheap!
Screw the "you are buying brand" statements!!! if you say that then compare the cost of production of your knock off vs a volk for example. The cost of the knock is cheap(being made in a country where they pay cheap labor rates and who knoes what else).
(5 secs search)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Armx02_R7Y0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq1Yy...eature=related
At the end, some of the posers stand up creating arguments. If you got a a knock off, ok be happy with it. It's your money, you have brains to think and analyze the product you got and the reasons why you got it. But MANN it is ridiculously when they have to act like their wheels compare to the real deal and weird statements like that, or try to pretend they got the real deal.
IMO brands like enkei, volk, advan, and many others are not overpriced for the product they offer. There are other wheels out there on the market that are way more expensive.
Also, some should consider what is behind all these "real deal brands". there is a lot of engineering and testing before we get to have access to their products; all the process is not cheap!
Screw the "you are buying brand" statements!!! if you say that then compare the cost of production of your knock off vs a volk for example. The cost of the knock is cheap(being made in a country where they pay cheap labor rates and who knoes what else).
(5 secs search)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Armx02_R7Y0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq1Yy...eature=related
10-31-2010, 08:32 AM
#193
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Tarzana,CA
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
10-31-2010, 08:44 AM
#194
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Danville, CA
Posts: 158
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
10-31-2010, 11:36 AM
#197
Volk CE28's
Volk GTS Phantom(limited edition)
Nismo lmgt4s's a couple of years back
I can't find a pic of my te's or the sf winnings i had. I Don't waste my time taking pictures and possing on the interwebz ****!
Last edited by ITOzann; 10-31-2010 at 11:43 AM.
01-08-2012, 08:08 AM
#200
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't see the problem with the "FAKE" wheels for daily driver cars- As long as you dont claim your Varrstoens are TE37's, or your Rota Torques are Work Emotion. Everyone knows the replicas are not as high of a quality as the real wheels.
I've owned some of both-
Motegi, XXR, Rota, Konig, ASA, Kyowa, just to name a few of the cheap wheels I've owned...
But I've also owned Works, BBS, Enkei, Advan, Volk.
Honestly, as far as driving the car- they do basically the same thing. they roll. lol
But with the real deal, you normally have a stronger wheel, and lighter- which IS worth your time even on the street... Anyone ever seen a difference in your MPG from heavy wheels?
My 93LE miata has 8.5lb stock BBS (14x6)- with a 195 Kumho, I was getting around 33mpg. When I put on my 13.5lb Konig Rollers (15x7.5, 205 Kumho XS) I went down to around 29. That is an extreme case, because of the width/compound of tire as well, but just an example. Think of all the $$$ wasted in gas in the long run because of the switch!
Everyone is gonna have their opinions on the subject, but regardless with a copy you know 99% of the time you are getting an inferior product.
I've owned some of both-
Motegi, XXR, Rota, Konig, ASA, Kyowa, just to name a few of the cheap wheels I've owned...
But I've also owned Works, BBS, Enkei, Advan, Volk.
Honestly, as far as driving the car- they do basically the same thing. they roll. lol
But with the real deal, you normally have a stronger wheel, and lighter- which IS worth your time even on the street... Anyone ever seen a difference in your MPG from heavy wheels?
My 93LE miata has 8.5lb stock BBS (14x6)- with a 195 Kumho, I was getting around 33mpg. When I put on my 13.5lb Konig Rollers (15x7.5, 205 Kumho XS) I went down to around 29. That is an extreme case, because of the width/compound of tire as well, but just an example. Think of all the $$$ wasted in gas in the long run because of the switch!
Everyone is gonna have their opinions on the subject, but regardless with a copy you know 99% of the time you are getting an inferior product.
Last edited by Btothefnrock; 01-08-2012 at 08:11 AM.