T1-S vs GS-D3 vs S-03 vs MX
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I've done some research and came to to these 4 choices.
Toyo proxes T1-S
Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3
Bridgestone potenza S-03
Kumho MX
I rarely drive in the wet, and I take the car to the dragstrip 2-3 times a month and will soon track the car.
Some feedback would be appreciated from people who know these tires, thanks.
Toyo proxes T1-S
Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3
Bridgestone potenza S-03
Kumho MX
I rarely drive in the wet, and I take the car to the dragstrip 2-3 times a month and will soon track the car.
Some feedback would be appreciated from people who know these tires, thanks.
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its all about what you want. the so3s are sweet tires, once they heat up you would sware they were 2 parts super glue 1 part rubber. but you will be losing hp running those, they weight 32lbs a tire for the 275 35 19. i personally am running the toyo because they are 27.3 lbs and grip like a mother, you may say, "its less than a 5 lb difference big deal" but rotating mass is the name of the game you lose quite a bit of hp if you have heavy wheels and tires. i dont know much about the eagle f1 other than they are expensive but very good, dont know about the weight, but toyo took the prize easily, they were the best thing for the money, and the lightest. hope this helps.
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on performance scale from best to worste:
Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 Bridgestone potenza S-03
they are about equal. i'd go with s-03 just because they will retain traction as they wear and i believe they are a little cheaper.
Kumho MX
Great tire for the money. Will be the tire i get when i get a set of new wheels. more then sufficient unless you do heavy competitive autocross.
Toyo proxes T1-S
From what i read and heard from tire proffesionals, poor design and quality. run a little low on air and the sidewall often colapses. seem to get punctures a lot more easily. Wear very fast for the performance they offer. i personally would stay away from them. i know lots of people have them, and they are cheap, but you get what you pay for. This is the my opinion that was formed after doing research and talking to others, so your opinion may vary.
Toyos are not on the same level as GS-D3 vs S-03. These are max perfromance and toyos are ultimate. one step down. MX is max as well. Hope this helps.
Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 Bridgestone potenza S-03
they are about equal. i'd go with s-03 just because they will retain traction as they wear and i believe they are a little cheaper.
Kumho MX
Great tire for the money. Will be the tire i get when i get a set of new wheels. more then sufficient unless you do heavy competitive autocross.
Toyo proxes T1-S
From what i read and heard from tire proffesionals, poor design and quality. run a little low on air and the sidewall often colapses. seem to get punctures a lot more easily. Wear very fast for the performance they offer. i personally would stay away from them. i know lots of people have them, and they are cheap, but you get what you pay for. This is the my opinion that was formed after doing research and talking to others, so your opinion may vary.
Toyos are not on the same level as GS-D3 vs S-03. These are max perfromance and toyos are ultimate. one step down. MX is max as well. Hope this helps.
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Thanks for the feedback!
my priority being Dry Traction I am leaning toward the kumho MX, but the other 3 are right there. Proxes is interesting for weight and price, S-03 and GS-D3 are best of all, but more expenisve...
still wiill wait for more feedback and then make my choice
PS2 would have been another top choice, but I have aftermarket 18" wheels and I want to keep same diameter. PS2 come in odds sizes for 18"
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still wiill wait for more feedback and then make my choice
Originally posted by zrdude
What about Michelin Pilot Sport PS2?
What about Michelin Pilot Sport PS2?
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I've got MXs on and am quite pleased with them. The ride is a little softer than the OEMs. I think the sidewalls are softer b/c the steering response has diminished a little bit. Probably the biggest change was the lack of jiggling that the RE040s had whenever I hit a bump.
The MXs do get noisy on the highway but they're quite grippy - especially when cost is considered. I bought them to use as a streetable AutoX setup. Since I'll be going with R compounds next year, I'll definitely get quieter street tires when the MXs are finished. Also, wear seems to be quite good. Never had an issue with aquaplaning either.
The MXs do get noisy on the highway but they're quite grippy - especially when cost is considered. I bought them to use as a streetable AutoX setup. Since I'll be going with R compounds next year, I'll definitely get quieter street tires when the MXs are finished. Also, wear seems to be quite good. Never had an issue with aquaplaning either.
Last edited by FritzMan; 07-28-2004 at 04:03 AM.
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When I got rims and tires I went with the MX tires. They were nice in the summer, rather loud however and sometimes on certain pavement types and a heavy throttle they'd screach and tell the whole world somebody was hot foot'n it. But their biggest failing came in the winter time where they turned to grease, the rears quickly melted away in a blaze of too little tractive effort and wheel spin. I only got 7k out of the rears, even with one rotation. I did not rotate them again because I wanted to try a different tire in the rear. I have the Goodyear GS-D3 on in the rear and they are a better tire. But they have the annoying habit of screaching all over the place as you get close to the tractive limit. Sigh, when the MX's that are still on the front go, I'll replace them with S-03's.
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Originally posted by mrZ
on performance scale from best to worste:
Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 Bridgestone potenza S-03
they are about equal. i'd go with s-03 just because they will retain traction as they wear and i believe they are a little cheaper.
Kumho MX
Great tire for the money. Will be the tire i get when i get a set of new wheels. more then sufficient unless you do heavy competitive autocross.
Toyo proxes T1-S
From what i read and heard from tire proffesionals, poor design and quality. run a little low on air and the sidewall often colapses. seem to get punctures a lot more easily. Wear very fast for the performance they offer. i personally would stay away from them. i know lots of people have them, and they are cheap, but you get what you pay for. This is the my opinion that was formed after doing research and talking to others, so your opinion may vary.
Toyos are not on the same level as GS-D3 vs S-03. These are max perfromance and toyos are ultimate. one step down. MX is max as well. Hope this helps.
on performance scale from best to worste:
Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 Bridgestone potenza S-03
they are about equal. i'd go with s-03 just because they will retain traction as they wear and i believe they are a little cheaper.
Kumho MX
Great tire for the money. Will be the tire i get when i get a set of new wheels. more then sufficient unless you do heavy competitive autocross.
Toyo proxes T1-S
From what i read and heard from tire proffesionals, poor design and quality. run a little low on air and the sidewall often colapses. seem to get punctures a lot more easily. Wear very fast for the performance they offer. i personally would stay away from them. i know lots of people have them, and they are cheap, but you get what you pay for. This is the my opinion that was formed after doing research and talking to others, so your opinion may vary.
Toyos are not on the same level as GS-D3 vs S-03. These are max perfromance and toyos are ultimate. one step down. MX is max as well. Hope this helps.
#12
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I have personal experience with the MX and GS-D3 on my WRX.
I feel the GS-D3 is a more responsive tire, in that it provides more and better feedback. It's also amazing in the wet. Between the two, it's what I like on the street.
For you though, the MX sounds like the way to go. Price is right, and compared to the Goodyear it does have more ultimate dry-road grip. Having a WRX I can't speak to longitudinal traction issues; both hook up quite well with AWD
. But I would assume it would provide equal or better traction, given its stickier nature.
In addition, the MX's 'slower' (reacting) nature might be better suited to a 350Z, which requires a more delicate hand in the corners than does a WRX. Also, I'm guessing the MX is better suited to track lapping than the Goodyear, due to its large tread blocks probably not squirming around and deforming as much as the Goodyear's tread does. Only have track experience on the Goodyear (at Hallett, two days), and they don't wear very nicely in that environment.
Can't speak to the S03 or the Toyo, but I've pretty much heard nothing but good about both. Couldn't go too wrong with any of your choices.
Hope that helps a bit.
Phil
I feel the GS-D3 is a more responsive tire, in that it provides more and better feedback. It's also amazing in the wet. Between the two, it's what I like on the street.
For you though, the MX sounds like the way to go. Price is right, and compared to the Goodyear it does have more ultimate dry-road grip. Having a WRX I can't speak to longitudinal traction issues; both hook up quite well with AWD
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In addition, the MX's 'slower' (reacting) nature might be better suited to a 350Z, which requires a more delicate hand in the corners than does a WRX. Also, I'm guessing the MX is better suited to track lapping than the Goodyear, due to its large tread blocks probably not squirming around and deforming as much as the Goodyear's tread does. Only have track experience on the Goodyear (at Hallett, two days), and they don't wear very nicely in that environment.
Can't speak to the S03 or the Toyo, but I've pretty much heard nothing but good about both. Couldn't go too wrong with any of your choices.
Hope that helps a bit.
Phil
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Did you consider the BFGoodrich TA K/Ds or Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar? Both are supposed to be awesome dry pavement tires. I'm pretty much in the same boat... trying to decide between the four you listed and the TA K/Ds. I also don't do any wet weather driving with my toy.
First go around, I bought the S-03s and they have been fantastic. Only complaint is they have gotten pretty loud with road wear. Have continued to grip good and provide great road feel throughout their life, tho.
I'm leaning more toward the S-03s again, the GoodYears, or the TA K/Ds. My take...
G3-D3s - Best all around of the bunch
S-03s - proven performer.. probably a little better than the GoodYears, but sacrifices ride quality/noise/wear for that additional performance
BFG TA K/Ds - incredible dry road tire. Better performing than the Goodyears or S-03s, but very, very poor wet weather performance.
I'll probably go back with the S-03s since I don't consider cost an issue.
First go around, I bought the S-03s and they have been fantastic. Only complaint is they have gotten pretty loud with road wear. Have continued to grip good and provide great road feel throughout their life, tho.
I'm leaning more toward the S-03s again, the GoodYears, or the TA K/Ds. My take...
G3-D3s - Best all around of the bunch
S-03s - proven performer.. probably a little better than the GoodYears, but sacrifices ride quality/noise/wear for that additional performance
BFG TA K/Ds - incredible dry road tire. Better performing than the Goodyears or S-03s, but very, very poor wet weather performance.
I'll probably go back with the S-03s since I don't consider cost an issue.
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the bfgoodrich I had a few bad experiences with the brand in the past, one recently, and will not go back with them.
The Goodyear F1-supercar have insane price, more than double the price of kumho MX. you are looking at close to 1600$ for a set, wile kumhos are 700$ a set. Granted you pay what you get for, unless you spend all day at speeds above 250kmh or have in insane track setup, I doubt you will see a difference on a car like the 350z for the price diffence.
I still am undecided between bridgestone and kumho. they seem to be 100% Dry performance oriented without any wet performance compromise like the toyo and goodyear
The Goodyear F1-supercar have insane price, more than double the price of kumho MX. you are looking at close to 1600$ for a set, wile kumhos are 700$ a set. Granted you pay what you get for, unless you spend all day at speeds above 250kmh or have in insane track setup, I doubt you will see a difference on a car like the 350z for the price diffence.
I still am undecided between bridgestone and kumho. they seem to be 100% Dry performance oriented without any wet performance compromise like the toyo and goodyear
Last edited by Tex Willer; 07-28-2004 at 02:00 PM.
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Originally posted by mrZ
on performance scale from best to worste:
Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 Bridgestone potenza S-03
they are about equal. i'd go with s-03 just because they will retain traction as they wear and i believe they are a little cheaper.
Kumho MX
Great tire for the money. Will be the tire i get when i get a set of new wheels. more then sufficient unless you do heavy competitive autocross.
Toyo proxes T1-S
From what i read and heard from tire proffesionals, poor design and quality. run a little low on air and the sidewall often colapses. seem to get punctures a lot more easily. Wear very fast for the performance they offer. i personally would stay away from them. i know lots of people have them, and they are cheap, but you get what you pay for. This is the my opinion that was formed after doing research and talking to others, so your opinion may vary.
Toyos are not on the same level as GS-D3 vs S-03. These are max perfromance and toyos are ultimate. one step down. MX is max as well. Hope this helps.
on performance scale from best to worste:
Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 Bridgestone potenza S-03
they are about equal. i'd go with s-03 just because they will retain traction as they wear and i believe they are a little cheaper.
Kumho MX
Great tire for the money. Will be the tire i get when i get a set of new wheels. more then sufficient unless you do heavy competitive autocross.
Toyo proxes T1-S
From what i read and heard from tire proffesionals, poor design and quality. run a little low on air and the sidewall often colapses. seem to get punctures a lot more easily. Wear very fast for the performance they offer. i personally would stay away from them. i know lots of people have them, and they are cheap, but you get what you pay for. This is the my opinion that was formed after doing research and talking to others, so your opinion may vary.
Toyos are not on the same level as GS-D3 vs S-03. These are max perfromance and toyos are ultimate. one step down. MX is max as well. Hope this helps.
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rodH...
Actually, the Toyo T1-S are about the cheapest on the list... priced all mentioned in this thread yesterday at TireRack and onlinetires.com. I won't argue which is best or best for the money as that is very subjective.
What follows is the total cost for 4 wheels... 2x 275/40/18 and 2x 245/40/18. Tex Willer has already stated he is running 18s and so am I. I don't know his widths, but the set up I've shown is what I'm running and what many others running aftermarket 18s run so I'm using that as our starting point.
For the record, I'm using onlinetire.com pricing for comparisons because in every case except for Michelin Pilot Sports, they were cheaper than TireRack.com. Only expection is the Kuhmo MXs as onlinetire.com does not seem to carry these... pricing for those comes from tirerack.
Kuhmo MXs................................... $712
Toyo T1-Ss.................................... $718
Bridgestone S-03s........................ $940
Bridgestone S-02s..... no 245/40/18s available
GoodYear GS-D3........................... $912
BFGoodRich T/A KDs...................... $892
Michelin PSs.................................. $1130!!!
Michelin PS2s.............. not available in these sizes
If cost were an issue, I'd say the Toyos are probably the best choice... personally, if I'm already spending $700, another $200 is not that big of a deal. IF PS2s were available in the sizes I want, they would definitely be my first choice. As it is, 'll probably stick with my original assessment of getting either S-03s again or GS-D3s. Cost a little more, but much better tire than Toyos or Kuhmos. Still not sold on the T/A KDs... too many mixed reviews.
Actually, the Toyo T1-S are about the cheapest on the list... priced all mentioned in this thread yesterday at TireRack and onlinetires.com. I won't argue which is best or best for the money as that is very subjective.
What follows is the total cost for 4 wheels... 2x 275/40/18 and 2x 245/40/18. Tex Willer has already stated he is running 18s and so am I. I don't know his widths, but the set up I've shown is what I'm running and what many others running aftermarket 18s run so I'm using that as our starting point.
For the record, I'm using onlinetire.com pricing for comparisons because in every case except for Michelin Pilot Sports, they were cheaper than TireRack.com. Only expection is the Kuhmo MXs as onlinetire.com does not seem to carry these... pricing for those comes from tirerack.
Kuhmo MXs................................... $712
Toyo T1-Ss.................................... $718
Bridgestone S-03s........................ $940
Bridgestone S-02s..... no 245/40/18s available
GoodYear GS-D3........................... $912
BFGoodRich T/A KDs...................... $892
Michelin PSs.................................. $1130!!!
Michelin PS2s.............. not available in these sizes
If cost were an issue, I'd say the Toyos are probably the best choice... personally, if I'm already spending $700, another $200 is not that big of a deal. IF PS2s were available in the sizes I want, they would definitely be my first choice. As it is, 'll probably stick with my original assessment of getting either S-03s again or GS-D3s. Cost a little more, but much better tire than Toyos or Kuhmos. Still not sold on the T/A KDs... too many mixed reviews.
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The thing is Toyos are good tires. Who said everything good should have insane price tag? If they good and cheap - well, thanks to whoever made them good and cheap.
BTW, they are also LIGHT. That makes 3 good qualities. Difficult to beat that.
I have 5K miles and 6 autocrosses since March, and I like them.
BTW, they are also LIGHT. That makes 3 good qualities. Difficult to beat that.
I have 5K miles and 6 autocrosses since March, and I like them.