Continuously Failing Coil Packs???
10-27-2014, 10:54 AM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Continuously Failing Coil Packs???
I've been re-tracing all of my steps trying to solve this misfire issue, and I thought that a quick summary may give some of you enough info to point me in the right direction!
This issue started immediately after changing my oil and installing my oil temp gauge (did them at the same time since I had to install a oil filter sandwich plate anyway). Upon starting the car up, the idle sounded more rough than usual. After letting the car idle briefly, the SES light appeared. We ran the code with a friends reader that came back as "multiple random misfires detected". We were stumped since we only touched the oil and the plate for the sandwich adapter. Took the car for a drive and could FEEL it missing. Pulled it back in the driveway and decided to check things out. Perhaps we had accidentally put too much oil in? We only filled 5 quarts, but we had thought that maybe the old oil didn't drain properly, and had added to this amount. We drained roughly 1/2 - 3/4ths of a quart to see if it would resolve the issue. No luck. One of our buddies (who had a spare set of known good coil packs laying around) suggested that we replace the packs and see if the issue persisted. We installed the new packs (on all cylinders) and the car ran as expected. I drove the car for about a day or so and then the SES came on again....... We pulled the coil packs with the intention of checking the plugs. Upon pulling the packs, we realized that the rear cylinders (5 and 6) had oil in the spark plug wells. Strange. We cleaned the oil and proceeded to inspect the plugs. None of the plugs looked fouled, but the plugs for cylinder 5 and 6 had oil on them. We decided to replace all of the plugs for good measure. During this time, I thought "maybe the packs weren't the issue in the first place", so we ended up replacing my friends set of coil packs with the cars original packs 1 by 1 (to see if any of them affected idle/threw a code). All of the originals were installed and the car ran as expected. No SES and no misfire feeling when driving. This told me that there wasn't anything wrong with the packs in the first place. Something else must be causing this issue. The car ran fine for about 10 days.
Then came the installation of the supercharger (Vortech V3). Installation went smoothly (performed by a local Nissan performance shop - AAM). They replaced the plugs again with plugs that were 1 step colder. I arrived at the shop in time to watch the dyno and tune session. They made a handful of dyno runs without and hiccups. No SES, no odd sounds, no "miss" feeling. The numbers weren't great (303whp). Then, on the next few dyno runs, at the top of the RPM range (I'd estimate about 5,500+ rpm's) the car made the hesistation/stutter sound commonly associated with misfiring. The code came back. The lower rpm's along with idle remained unaffected. I did not witness it, but the techs said that they replaced the coil packs for cylinders 1 and 2. That solved the issue for the moment. I had asked them if there was any oil in the spark plug wells. They told me that they hadn't seen any. The very next dyno run the car made 374whp. MUCH better. The noise and SES were gone.
I took the car home and everything was running well until about 4 days later. The SES had returned. I couldn't FEEL any misses at that point, but I did feel like the car wasn't pulling as hard. The SES has since come on and also turned itself off at it's own free will. Always the same "random misfires detected" code (0P000300 or something).
Having a lot of trouble figuring this out. I've done a lot of forum research, but the causes of this issue are so far and wide, that it's difficult to even find a direction to head in.
This issue started immediately after changing my oil and installing my oil temp gauge (did them at the same time since I had to install a oil filter sandwich plate anyway). Upon starting the car up, the idle sounded more rough than usual. After letting the car idle briefly, the SES light appeared. We ran the code with a friends reader that came back as "multiple random misfires detected". We were stumped since we only touched the oil and the plate for the sandwich adapter. Took the car for a drive and could FEEL it missing. Pulled it back in the driveway and decided to check things out. Perhaps we had accidentally put too much oil in? We only filled 5 quarts, but we had thought that maybe the old oil didn't drain properly, and had added to this amount. We drained roughly 1/2 - 3/4ths of a quart to see if it would resolve the issue. No luck. One of our buddies (who had a spare set of known good coil packs laying around) suggested that we replace the packs and see if the issue persisted. We installed the new packs (on all cylinders) and the car ran as expected. I drove the car for about a day or so and then the SES came on again....... We pulled the coil packs with the intention of checking the plugs. Upon pulling the packs, we realized that the rear cylinders (5 and 6) had oil in the spark plug wells. Strange. We cleaned the oil and proceeded to inspect the plugs. None of the plugs looked fouled, but the plugs for cylinder 5 and 6 had oil on them. We decided to replace all of the plugs for good measure. During this time, I thought "maybe the packs weren't the issue in the first place", so we ended up replacing my friends set of coil packs with the cars original packs 1 by 1 (to see if any of them affected idle/threw a code). All of the originals were installed and the car ran as expected. No SES and no misfire feeling when driving. This told me that there wasn't anything wrong with the packs in the first place. Something else must be causing this issue. The car ran fine for about 10 days.
Then came the installation of the supercharger (Vortech V3). Installation went smoothly (performed by a local Nissan performance shop - AAM). They replaced the plugs again with plugs that were 1 step colder. I arrived at the shop in time to watch the dyno and tune session. They made a handful of dyno runs without and hiccups. No SES, no odd sounds, no "miss" feeling. The numbers weren't great (303whp). Then, on the next few dyno runs, at the top of the RPM range (I'd estimate about 5,500+ rpm's) the car made the hesistation/stutter sound commonly associated with misfiring. The code came back. The lower rpm's along with idle remained unaffected. I did not witness it, but the techs said that they replaced the coil packs for cylinders 1 and 2. That solved the issue for the moment. I had asked them if there was any oil in the spark plug wells. They told me that they hadn't seen any. The very next dyno run the car made 374whp. MUCH better. The noise and SES were gone.
I took the car home and everything was running well until about 4 days later. The SES had returned. I couldn't FEEL any misses at that point, but I did feel like the car wasn't pulling as hard. The SES has since come on and also turned itself off at it's own free will. Always the same "random misfires detected" code (0P000300 or something).
Having a lot of trouble figuring this out. I've done a lot of forum research, but the causes of this issue are so far and wide, that it's difficult to even find a direction to head in.
10-27-2014, 11:46 AM
#3
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
10-27-2014, 07:12 PM
#5
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
10-28-2014, 09:55 AM
#6
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Trending Topics
10-28-2014, 11:28 AM
#8
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There's a laundry list of things that will blow random coils. The spark dwell time being too high, bad ignition condensor, bad block ground, and bad plugs. The dwell should be close to 4ms, I'd say no higher than 6. The ignition condensor is a $12 part so it's easy to just throw it at the problem. Use a voltmeter while the engine is running from the block to battery negative, it shoull not be more than -200mv. if it is, clean and sand your grounds or think about adding another block ground.
Last edited by adrift_foolish1; 10-28-2014 at 11:30 AM.
10-29-2014, 09:24 AM
#10
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There's a laundry list of things that will blow random coils. The spark dwell time being too high, bad ignition condensor, bad block ground, and bad plugs. The dwell should be close to 4ms, I'd say no higher than 6. The ignition condensor is a $12 part so it's easy to just throw it at the problem. Use a voltmeter while the engine is running from the block to battery negative, it shoull not be more than -200mv. if it is, clean and sand your grounds or think about adding another block ground.
10-29-2014, 09:42 AM
#11
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
THREAD UPDATE:
I pulled the coil packs and plugs again last night to check-up on them and better inspect the spark plug wells. Luckily, no oil on the "spark end" of the spark plugs (I was worried that the valve seals had gone bad, causing misfires because of spewed oil on the tips of the plugs). Clean as a whistle. There is oil in the spark plug wells of cylinders 5 and 6 again (I cleaned all of the oil out last time I was in there, so it must still be leaking). I've attached some pictures of the spark plug wells, along with a picture of the oil on the coil pack. I included a picture of what the plugs look like as well, just so you can see what I'm talking about. It may be hard to see in the picture, but the gaskets/rings contained in the valve cover seems to be where the oil is entering (they are the most saturated part of the plug wells). To my understanding, these gaskets are built-into the valve covers, meaning you would have to replace the entire valve cover to solve issues with those gaskets.
The oil in the wells is not NEARLY as bad as when I first pulled the coils, which may coincide with why the misfire codes/SES light is so much less frequent now. Would this amount of oil on the coil pack stems be capable of causing random misfires?
I had read that a few people solved the issue of oil in the spark plug wells by re-sealing the gaskets with a high-temp, non-hardening gasket maker (an RTV type substance). I bought a tube that is oil resistant and applied a generous amount to the gaskets of cylinders 5 and 6 (I made sure not to get any in the spark plug wells, only the gasket area).
While I was working, I also took the time to re-secure the ground for the wiring loom that the coil packs come out of (located at the front of the motor, near the cam-shaft cover), just for good measure. I drove about an hour and 5 minutes to work today with no code. I felt a slight stutter once, but that was it. No SES light after stutter, but it still worries me. The stutter felt similar to when you stomp on the gas with traction control on. It gives that very quick hesitation and rumble. I had traction control off at the time, so this was not the issue. It has to be something else. It was around 2800-3k rpms.
Anything else you guys would recommend checking for? Hopefully this light stays off for good now. I want to be running issue free, and with consistent power. Didn't know if that small amount of oil is capable of causing small misfires.
http://i1319.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4214c716.jpg
http://i1319.photobucket.com/albums/...pscb84e35d.jpg
http://i1319.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7f4521fc.jpg
http://i1319.photobucket.com/albums/...pse966a18a.jpg
http://i1319.photobucket.com/albums/...ps548cc911.jpg
I pulled the coil packs and plugs again last night to check-up on them and better inspect the spark plug wells. Luckily, no oil on the "spark end" of the spark plugs (I was worried that the valve seals had gone bad, causing misfires because of spewed oil on the tips of the plugs). Clean as a whistle. There is oil in the spark plug wells of cylinders 5 and 6 again (I cleaned all of the oil out last time I was in there, so it must still be leaking). I've attached some pictures of the spark plug wells, along with a picture of the oil on the coil pack. I included a picture of what the plugs look like as well, just so you can see what I'm talking about. It may be hard to see in the picture, but the gaskets/rings contained in the valve cover seems to be where the oil is entering (they are the most saturated part of the plug wells). To my understanding, these gaskets are built-into the valve covers, meaning you would have to replace the entire valve cover to solve issues with those gaskets.
The oil in the wells is not NEARLY as bad as when I first pulled the coils, which may coincide with why the misfire codes/SES light is so much less frequent now. Would this amount of oil on the coil pack stems be capable of causing random misfires?
I had read that a few people solved the issue of oil in the spark plug wells by re-sealing the gaskets with a high-temp, non-hardening gasket maker (an RTV type substance). I bought a tube that is oil resistant and applied a generous amount to the gaskets of cylinders 5 and 6 (I made sure not to get any in the spark plug wells, only the gasket area).
While I was working, I also took the time to re-secure the ground for the wiring loom that the coil packs come out of (located at the front of the motor, near the cam-shaft cover), just for good measure. I drove about an hour and 5 minutes to work today with no code. I felt a slight stutter once, but that was it. No SES light after stutter, but it still worries me. The stutter felt similar to when you stomp on the gas with traction control on. It gives that very quick hesitation and rumble. I had traction control off at the time, so this was not the issue. It has to be something else. It was around 2800-3k rpms.
Anything else you guys would recommend checking for? Hopefully this light stays off for good now. I want to be running issue free, and with consistent power. Didn't know if that small amount of oil is capable of causing small misfires.
http://i1319.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4214c716.jpg
http://i1319.photobucket.com/albums/...pscb84e35d.jpg
http://i1319.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7f4521fc.jpg
http://i1319.photobucket.com/albums/...pse966a18a.jpg
http://i1319.photobucket.com/albums/...ps548cc911.jpg
10-30-2014, 03:55 PM
#12
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thread bump:
So far, so good *knocks on wood*
Still wondering if those small amounts of oil in the nose of the coils was enough to cause small, random misfires.
Hopefully the gasket sealer holds well!
So far, so good *knocks on wood*
Still wondering if those small amounts of oil in the nose of the coils was enough to cause small, random misfires.
Hopefully the gasket sealer holds well!
11-03-2014, 09:53 PM
#15
New Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Hesperia
Posts: 255
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oil in the sparkplug well is probably the culprit. At this point I would replace the valve covers as Nissan doesn't sell the seal for the wells. Although I do remember finding a post a found a search online for a place that sells the seals, but you have to drill out the seals and install new ones.
Its very odd that this happened after an oil change and oil temp sensor install. I would've drained the oil and collected it and removed the sensor and then refilled the oil to spec and see what that would result in.
Anyhow you are where you are now. So I would replace the valve covers or have them replaced. Let us know how it goes.
Its very odd that this happened after an oil change and oil temp sensor install. I would've drained the oil and collected it and removed the sensor and then refilled the oil to spec and see what that would result in.
Anyhow you are where you are now. So I would replace the valve covers or have them replaced. Let us know how it goes.
11-07-2014, 06:52 PM
#17
im having this exact same issue and i didnt want to make another thread. basically same issue. i even have similar mods but my mods have been on for over a year with no issues i installed my v3 vortech, and cooler spark plugs last july. the first signs of this issue were this past august. i replaced the knock sensor since i had code p0328 and knock harness since i had p0327 and this solved the issue for about 2 days. now i have code p0300 and was about to buy the coils but i was looking for a good deal on them and came across this issue. now im hesitant to buy the coils if it wont solve the issue. same hesitation at about 2500 rpms and above.
11-09-2014, 10:48 AM
#18
New Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Hesperia
Posts: 255
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Try taking all the coils and plugs out one by one and inspect them. check the boot on the coils to make sure they aren't cracked or torn. And i will try and paste a coil test you can do with a multimeter.Also look for oil getting in or on the coil and the plug and the plug well.
Inspect the plugs for excessive build up or burn pattern. You can find a bunch of info related to spark plugs and what the burn you have indicates. You may need a simple adjustment on the gap. If you don't mind spending the cash get new plugs that vortec recommends and gap them correctly to their spec. and when you do gap them,do not gap the electrode by sticking the gap measurer between the electrode and ground electrode. to adjust pull back the electrode strap,measure and close accordingly. Im sure your gap will definitely need to be smaller than the factory gap do to your FI.Hope this helps.
Inspect the plugs for excessive build up or burn pattern. You can find a bunch of info related to spark plugs and what the burn you have indicates. You may need a simple adjustment on the gap. If you don't mind spending the cash get new plugs that vortec recommends and gap them correctly to their spec. and when you do gap them,do not gap the electrode by sticking the gap measurer between the electrode and ground electrode. to adjust pull back the electrode strap,measure and close accordingly. Im sure your gap will definitely need to be smaller than the factory gap do to your FI.Hope this helps.
12-10-2014, 07:45 PM
#19
Try taking all the coils and plugs out one by one and inspect them. check the boot on the coils to make sure they aren't cracked or torn. And i will try and paste a coil test you can do with a multimeter.Also look for oil getting in or on the coil and the plug and the plug well.
Inspect the plugs for excessive build up or burn pattern. You can find a bunch of info related to spark plugs and what the burn you have indicates. You may need a simple adjustment on the gap. If you don't mind spending the cash get new plugs that vortec recommends and gap them correctly to their spec. and when you do gap them,do not gap the electrode by sticking the gap measurer between the electrode and ground electrode. to adjust pull back the electrode strap,measure and close accordingly. Im sure your gap will definitely need to be smaller than the factory gap do to your FI.Hope this helps.
Inspect the plugs for excessive build up or burn pattern. You can find a bunch of info related to spark plugs and what the burn you have indicates. You may need a simple adjustment on the gap. If you don't mind spending the cash get new plugs that vortec recommends and gap them correctly to their spec. and when you do gap them,do not gap the electrode by sticking the gap measurer between the electrode and ground electrode. to adjust pull back the electrode strap,measure and close accordingly. Im sure your gap will definitely need to be smaller than the factory gap do to your FI.Hope this helps.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Colombo
Forced Induction
35
11-09-2020 10:27 AM
ars88
Zs & Gs For Sale
18
04-04-2016 07:52 AM